How common are the use of canines among the Tactical Law Enforcement Teams? Does anyone have a good educated guess at how many canines the USCG has? Where are they most located?

Being a sport dog trainer of Belgian Malinois, I would be interested to hear a response from this to.

Do a search.

Go to the MSST unit websites. All the info is there.

I found very little. Does anyone have any links they would care to share?

same here

Just to share some of my past experiences with K-9's...I have posted many times but in case you are not aware, I was USCG 82-88 and USCS Marine Enforcement Officer 89-06, (all in FL with USCS)

We tried numerous times to take USCS and USAF K-9's out on our patrol boats. Bad idea! The dogs take too much of a beating, overheat, are exhausted from trying to keep their balance on the boat while underway.

For boardings, it was just too risky trying to put a German Shepherd over to another boat. We tried... bad idea overall!

Dockside boardings were obviously far easier.

One thing I learned from the K-9 officers of the Monroe County Sheriff's Office (FL Keys) and the FHP troopers, many K-9's can get overwhelmed when approaching large amounts of marijuana or cocaine, etc. I've seen some walk right up to a bale and fail to alert.

One of the best experiences I had was one afternoon when we found a boat and a Bahamian hiding in the magroves in Key Largo. We searched for hours for bales with no luck. A MCSO K-9 showed up, picked up the scent from where we found the Bahamian and took us right to approximately 2,300 lbs of marijuana hidden in the heavy brush. That dog earned his Scooby Snacks that day!

Just thought it would be beneficial to pass this info in hopes it can help.

Don
(below is my personal home security system, my 4 yr old male German Shepherd, Apache)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 21yrsUSCGUSCS,

Looks like a push over Don!

Sure...wanna try? I think he may have a bipolar disorder. He'll play with you for hours if you toss a stick. Then, just try to get into "his" truck or "his" apartment.

He's so loving around kids. The neighborhood kids all come running up to hug and kiss him. It's male strangers that he will be all "cocked and locked" about. A few weeks back, I picked up a buddy of mine to give him a ride, I thought Apache was going to take his head off. It took me about five minutes to get him to understand my friend was OK.

He sure as heck is this man's best friend!

Don

Hey Don,

Does Apache play any dog sports?

This is one of My Malinois. Addie, She plays IPO (Schutzhund).

And her Big Brother Moose! --- My Wifes dog. He looks like a lot. But the dude is a just as friendly as they come.

Back in 2003, we talked about the possibility of having him trained to work with us in CBP Marine but weren't too sure that the agency would go for it. One of the guys I worked with had previously been a K-9 Officer for the Navy out in Hawaii. He ran Apache through a few basic maneuvers and said he thought he'd be very easy to train.

I was injured and had to retire so it never went any further. Again, we had serious doubts CBP would go for a German Shepherd being used out of a Marine Interdiction Office.

He enjoys chasing cats, rabbits and armidillos! Great recall, if he ever takes off after them, one command and he turns right back and returns to me. I guess another hobby of his could be scaring the living hell out of someone walking by the truck and not knowing he is in there.

Nice dogs you've got there. The food bill must hurt!

Don

Apache looks like a fine GSD. Gotta love a good dog. I see a lot of them playing dog sports.

As for the food bill, that's half the pack. there is 12 y/o catahoula cur. and another malinois.

about 200.00 a month to feed those bastards.

To answer the original post, there are presently less than 25 teams in the CG. Hopefully more will come online in the coming year or two as big changes happen in the Special Missions area for the service. If you are interested, you'll need to be stationed at an MSST to be close at getting the position. It's currently not a billeted (i.e. assigned)position but might become such. Originally, we used Auburn University for our source of training and dogs, now we use CBP's facility in Front Royal, VA. The class is 16 weeks long and the job is not for everyone. There's a selection process at the units that are receiving K9s. As transfers and RELADS happen, teams have been replaced or reassigned. Good luck.

Thanks For the information. I am not able to be assigned to an MSST, As my rate is in aviation. but I just wanted to see what the CG is doing with dogs.

It's to bad. I have a lot of experience and a lot to show for my hardwork as a K-9 handler and trainer. I would love to do a tour working a dog, but I do not think it's in the cards for me.

There's always sport dogs to train...thank god. It's hard work maintaining a working kennel while in the CG. I currently have 4...pretty small in the scheme of things. But it's enough to give me my fix.

I talked with a LT. who used to be in charge of the K-9 program, HE said they were having a hard time with Malinois. Dogs biting handlers. It seems to be the case everywhere (within goverment programs). The Malinois, does not do well with the old style of training military canines. Too much fight response, and they can be handler sensitive.

Since they are having such success on the sporting fields and in european LE programs I think Americans wanted part of the action. But the sport world and Euro programs afford a lot more time to get the dogs trained, and the dogs live with the handler (a good thing for dogs that are suspicious and tend to be very attached to one person).

quote:

Originally posted by Dog_show:
Thanks For the information. I am not able to be assigned to an MSST, As my rate is in aviation. but I just wanted to see what the CG is doing with dogs.

It's to bad. I have a lot of experience and a lot to show for my hardwork as a K-9 handler and trainer. I would love to do a tour working a dog, but I do not think it's in the cards for me.

There's always sport dogs to train...thank god. It's hard work maintaining a working kennel while in the CG. I currently have 4...pretty small in the scheme of things. But it's enough to give me my fix.

I talked with a LT. who used to be in charge of the K-9 program, HE said they were having a hard time with Malinois. Dogs biting handlers. It seems to be the case everywhere (within goverment programs). The Malinois, does not do well with the old style of training military canines. Too much fight response, and they can be handler sensitive.

Since they are having such success on the sporting fields and in european LE programs I think Americans wanted part of the action. But the sport world and Euro programs afford a lot more time to get the dogs trained, and the dogs live with the handler (a good thing for dogs that are suspicious and tend to be very attached to one person).

Well, the program's had its ups and downs, but I'd venture a guess that the LT you spoke with didn't have all the facts. Yes people have gotten bitten, but in any facet of K9 work there will be dog bites. You should well know that already if you're in the arena. The program began with strictly labradors and was very successful with that. However, the DHS streamlining dictate that we partner up with a fellow agency (CBP) and work together. Be that as it may (no comment) we accepted canines that are outstanding workers but not quite as suited for kissing babies. Our dogs do live with us and we have a take-home vehicle. We have also received some labs and malligators that are just big babies. There are two females in Galveston that are awesome and very friendly.

I don't understand the tone of the post, really. Government programs have really pioneered the K9 industry. Most sucessful agencies and businesses out there started either in the military field or some sort of government subsidized program element. Much of what is done today to train K9s comes from military and government R & D. I've been working this dog for about 5yrs now and I've spoken to countless people in the industry who've been doing this for 30yrs plus, they're a wealth of knowledge and provide for very successful integration of new programs and old methods. There's nothing about any breed that 'doesn't do well with the old style of training'.

You mentioned dog bites and I thought I would share this story.

Around the year 2000, the Monroe County Sheriff's Office (FL Keys) were trying to approach a homicide suspect at a marina in Key Largo when he opened fire on them. He ran onto a small island full of mangroves. We surrounded the island with many boats from different agencies. I was with USCS at the time.

MCSO and FHP each sent SWAT teams and one or two K-9's into the woods during the darkness. It was very dark that night.

A detective friend of mine told me of what happened. He said they were in the woods, in the pitch dark he heard the K-9 bite into the air three times, then it turned and locked down on his leg. The dog would not let go even with the commands from it's handler(FHP).

Here was this detective, wondering if he would have to shoot the dog, trying to stay quiet with the armed suspect somewhere nearby. The dog eventually broke off.

The suspect was located after sunrise and when the SWAT team approached, he took his own life with his pistol.

For those who are familiar with Key Largo, this was at the Key Largo end of the 18 mile stretch, Jewfish Creek and Lake Surprise.

Don

quote:

Originally posted by 21yrsUSCGUSCS:
You mentioned dog bites and I thought I would share this story.

Around the year 2000, the Monroe County Sheriff's Office (FL Keys) were trying to approach a homicide suspect at a marina in Key Largo when he opened fire on them. He ran onto a small island full of mangroves. We surrounded the island with many boats from different agencies. I was with USCS at the time.

MCSO and FHP each sent SWAT teams and one or two K-9's into the woods during the darkness. It was very dark that night.

A detective friend of mine told me of what happened. He said they were in the woods, in the pitch dark he heard the K-9 bite into the air three times, then it turned and locked down on his leg. The dog would not let go even with the commands from it's handler(FHP).

Here was this detective, wondering if he would have to shoot the dog, trying to stay quiet with the armed suspect somewhere nearby. The dog eventually broke off.

The suspect was located after sunrise and when the SWAT team approached, he took his own life with his pistol.

For those who are familiar with Key Largo, this was at the Key Largo end of the 18 mile stretch, Jewfish Creek and Lake Surprise.

Don

I remember hearing of that story before, it was at the MLE academy.

Not uncommon for patrol dogs to bite the wrong person. One of the reasons I'm glad the CG went single purpose with the program. We can order our people to do what we say and if they don't then there are consequences for them. When it comes to the 4 legged shipmates we have, they choose their own way sometimes and all we can do is hope it's what we want them to do.

quote:

Originally posted by phalanx69:

quote:

Originally posted by 21yrsUSCGUSCS:
You mentioned dog bites and I thought I would share this story.

Around the year 2000, the Monroe County Sheriff's Office (FL Keys) were trying to approach a homicide suspect at a marina in Key Largo when he opened fire on them. He ran onto a small island full of mangroves. We surrounded the island with many boats from different agencies. I was with USCS at the time.

MCSO and FHP each sent SWAT teams and one or two K-9's into the woods during the darkness. It was very dark that night.

A detective friend of mine told me of what happened. He said they were in the woods, in the pitch dark he heard the K-9 bite into the air three times, then it turned and locked down on his leg. The dog would not let go even with the commands from it's handler(FHP).

Here was this detective, wondering if he would have to shoot the dog, trying to stay quiet with the armed suspect somewhere nearby. The dog eventually broke off.

The suspect was located after sunrise and when the SWAT team approached, he took his own life with his pistol.

For those who are familiar with Key Largo, this was at the Key Largo end of the 18 mile stretch, Jewfish Creek and Lake Surprise.

Don

I remember hearing of that story before, it was at the MLE academy.

Not uncommon for patrol dogs to bite the wrong person. One of the reasons I'm glad the CG went single purpose with the program. We can order our people to do what we say and if they don't then there are consequences for them. When it comes to the 4 legged shipmates we have, they choose their own way sometimes and all we can do is hope it's what we want them to do.

From what I heard. The dogs are for scent work not protection trained? Is that true.

I also would like to comment on dog training being pioneered by the military...true in 1940. The dominace, yank and crank protocols. lasted till about the late 60's-70's when dolphin trainers started to employ Pavlovina theory, and OC...The advent of the clicker came about. it kind of trickled down to dog training. Most people with pets did not like the idea, clickers allowed the dogs to be free (disobedient) and animated (hyper). But sport dog people got in on it. and in on it hard. From thier on out...sport dog trainers, from agility to comp OB, to ring sports, to flyball. having been pioneering dog training. than every 15 years or so, some bozo...like ceasar millan comes along and reivents the wheel (kohler method) calls it something else...like people training. giveing people permission to beat the crap out of thier already terrified pets.

ON the dogs living in your home, and what the LT said, sounds like I got some bad gouge.

But the one thing that sporting dogs afford us, and I do not know the training schedule of the CG. is my dog actually works, maybe 4 times a year at trials. Giving me 361 days to train. I think to make a working dog cost effective, that cannot afford this type of schedule. So they are working most of the time, and training less.

Dons, Story is not a defect in the dog. it's in error in training.

And as for dog bites. I have been bite seriously, what I would call an intentional bite, by one dog.

Ex vom parchma land....he was PTS for being crazy.

By the way, I do not know if your in the SD area, But there is a huge protection trial jun 29, and 30th.

Yours truley, will be doing the decoy work.

I think you should talk to one of the handlers and get the correct info on the program and not rely on this forum to gain any usefull knowledge. Most of the information is not correct. I am one of the Explosives Handlers in the Coast Guard and would be glad to answer any questions.

quote:

Originally posted by k9tattoo:
I think you should talk to one of the handlers and get the correct info on the program and not rely on this forum to gain any usefull knowledge. Most of the information is not correct.

Which parts do you feel are not correct? Just curious for my own knowledge since what I posted was from personal experience.

Don