quote:

Originally posted by Daveb308:
I think the guy has a few good points, security of the country must be uppermost in the recruiting policy. Enlisting persons from countries with no proper records means you can never be sure who you are in fact dealing with. Large numbers of immigrants can lead to a situation where, because they are immigrants, they claim unfair treatment thereby gaining advantage over non immigrants. However it is my opinion "for what it may be worth" that anybody willing to risk death defending a country should be allowed to live in it and be treated as an equal. For example the UK has just given Gurkha soldiers the right to settle in the UK, this was forced upon an unwilling government by the citizens of the UK who have a powerful sense of "fair play". The same government deported an ex military woman who was an american citizen living in the UK looking after her seriously ill mother and drawing a US military pension as her only income. This really inteligent decision meant that having deported the carer and seperated Mother and Daughter they then had to put the mother in a home at UK taxpayers expense. We have yet to convey to people that although Governments make decisions the policy enactment is done by the same people no matter which way we vote, these people are only interested in preserving their own jobs at all costs. How many cases of the voters changing the direction or attitude of your government can you recall?.
I sometimes think that without politics and religion we might find less to fight about, maybe i'm getting cynical in my old age!
It is also not generally known that the UK is a non eligible country for the Green Card Lottery as it is known, what price a special relationship. It would seem the although "Septics and Limeys" may fight together they should not be allowed to live together. My interest, Ok, Dad was a GI from Pittsburgh, Mom was a UK citizen when i was born in the UK making me British although my mother and both my Sisters became US citizens i did not. US law stated at the time, "any child born to a serving soldier overseas shall asume the citizenship of the mother". I would be refused entry to join the US forces and defend that which i have always considered to be my country, i did however serve alongside the US forces as a British soldier.
Strange that Old Glory means so much to me but that's the way it's always been....

quote:

Originally posted by

I appreciate your point of view and that particular ruling was wrong but I have to disagree that we should so willingly accept individuals joining the armed forces to get their citizenship. In some situations, foreign people make the most ardent and true citizens and soldiers, most are just looking for the easiest way in. I've personally known to many soldiers in solely to get there citizen ship that were a complete detrement to their units. They were not intentionally sabotaging their units but they did not put forth any effort and milked the system at every turn and the rest of us ended up having to do their work or do with out because of their apathy.

quote:

Originally posted by kipfer:
Recruiting sons and daughters of enlisted members of foreign military the countries of which are governed by democracy and free market economy should be given preference rather than sons or daughters of pinko communists, Chinese spies,etc. That is why we have screening. Trace the roots. Their parents have strong influence on them. There are exceptionns. But that is another story. (Or better sons and daughters of soldiers killed or maimed by communist terrorists in their respective countries). These are really die-hards recruits.

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Originally posted by AirForceAggie:

quote:

Originally posted by

I appreciate your point of view and that particular ruling was wrong but I have to disagree that we should so willingly accept individuals joining the armed forces to get their citizenship. In some situations, foreign people make the most ardent and true citizens and soldiers, most are just looking for the easiest way in. I've personally known to many soldiers in solely to get there citizen ship that were a complete detrement to their units. They were not intentionally sabotaging their units but they did not put forth any effort and milked the system at every turn and the rest of us ended up having to do their work or do with out because of their apathy.

I have to respectfully disagree with you. My father entered this country as an immigrant. He enlisted in the Navy because back in the 50s, it was one of the few places where a non-caucasian could get a fair shake. He recieved his citizenship and was accepted into the Naval Academy as a 20 year old plebe. He served the US for 27 years in the Navy. For you to say that immigrants are looking for a free ride is a slap to people like my father. He continued to serve because he believes in this country. He passed that belief to me, who served in the AF, and now to my nephew, who is starting Army ROTC this fall on a scholarship. Frankly, I didn't need the rotc scholarship money and neither does my nephew. We joined because we felt that this country has given so much to my family. Most immigrants come to this country for a better life and to see that their kids don't have to live with the hardships of the home country. Remember, we're talking about legal immigrants here, not illegals. If anything, an immigrant loves this country even more because we know the difference. they earned their citizenship and not just given it because of birth. Just something to consider.

quote:

Originally posted by somethintobraggabout:

quote:

Originally posted by AirForceAggie:

quote:

Originally posted by

I appreciate your point of view and that particular ruling was wrong but I have to disagree that we should so willingly accept individuals joining the armed forces to get their citizenship. In some situations, foreign people make the most ardent and true citizens and soldiers, most are just looking for the easiest way in. I've personally known to many soldiers in solely to get there citizen ship that were a complete detrement to their units. They were not intentionally sabotaging their units but they did not put forth any effort and milked the system at every turn and the rest of us ended up having to do their work or do with out because of their apathy.

I have to respectfully disagree with you. My father entered this country as an immigrant. He enlisted in the Navy because back in the 50s, it was one of the few places where a non-caucasian could get a fair shake. He recieved his citizenship and was accepted into the Naval Academy as a 20 year old plebe. He served the US for 27 years in the Navy. For you to say that immigrants are looking for a free ride is a slap to people like my father. He continued to serve because he believes in this country. He passed that belief to me, who served in the AF, and now to my nephew, who is starting Army ROTC this fall on a scholarship. Frankly, I didn't need the rotc scholarship money and neither does my nephew. We joined because we felt that this country has given so much to my family. Most immigrants come to this country for a better life and to see that their kids don't have to live with the hardships of the home country. Remember, we're talking about legal immigrants here, not illegals. If anything, an immigrant loves this country even more because we know the difference. they earned their citizenship and not just given it because of birth. Just something to consider.

I'm not trying to slap anyone in the face. I'm simply citing personal experience. Some were good and many weren't.

quote:

Originally posted by AirForceAggie:

quote:

Originally posted by kipfer:
Recruiting sons and daughters of enlisted members of foreign military the countries of which are governed by democracy and free market economy should be given preference rather than sons or daughters of pinko communists, Chinese spies,etc. That is why we have screening. Trace the roots. Their parents have strong influence on them. There are exceptionns. But that is another story. (Or better sons and daughters of soldiers killed or maimed by communist terrorists in their respective countries). These are really die-hards recruits.

actually the recruits from communist countries are the most ardent anti-communists. That's because they know more than anyone else the evils of the communist system. During the Cold War, the Special Forces were heavy with refugees from Cuba and East Germany. In many cases, they made to be some of the best soldiers.

quote:

Originally posted by kipfer:

Russia became a Soviet state on October 1917. Ukranians migrated to Canada and a lot of them in Winnipeg. The Communist Party of Canada and affiliated groups or associations were comprised mostly of Left-wing Ukranians.(Read LABOUR TRAVAIL spring issue, 2009) There is a small voice in the community who campaigned against what happened to the 20 million kulaks who died of famine because of collectivization. Polish Catholics are the most ardent anti-communists.They "know what life under communism was" but I have doubts about Ukranians. Almost any Ukranian I know is either Left or extreme Left. When I enrolled in Grade 12 Sociology class as prerequisite to college, one European grade 12 student even clapped her hands after I was done reporting "with gusto" on Marx's dialectical and historical materialism and socialism.

With respect to Cubans, the 1971 influx of refugees and exiles were confirmed to be made up of spies, ex-cons and saboteurs. Hence, a lot of them who were surely politicized before they reached the shores of Florida also politicized their children who turned out to vote for left-wing Democrats instead of candidates of Republican party. Hence, Florida was what was known to be an enclave for right wing Republicans are slowly turning Left due to the last exodus last 1971. Half of cuban exiles voted for Obama who wants thte kids' gloves approach to a terrorist leader, Fidel Castro.

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Originally posted by AirForceAggie:

quote:

Originally posted by kipfer:

Russia became a Soviet state on October 1917. Ukranians migrated to Canada and a lot of them in Winnipeg. The Communist Party of Canada and affiliated groups or associations were comprised mostly of Left-wing Ukranians.(Read LABOUR TRAVAIL spring issue, 2009) There is a small voice in the community who campaigned against what happened to the 20 million kulaks who died of famine because of collectivization. Polish Catholics are the most ardent anti-communists.They "know what life under communism was" but I have doubts about Ukranians. Almost any Ukranian I know is either Left or extreme Left. When I enrolled in Grade 12 Sociology class as prerequisite to college, one European grade 12 student even clapped her hands after I was done reporting "with gusto" on Marx's dialectical and historical materialism and socialism.

With respect to Cubans, the 1971 influx of refugees and exiles were confirmed to be made up of spies, ex-cons and saboteurs. Hence, a lot of them who were surely politicized before they reached the shores of Florida also politicized their children who turned out to vote for left-wing Democrats instead of candidates of Republican party. Hence, Florida was what was known to be an enclave for right wing Republicans are slowly turning Left due to the last exodus last 1971. Half of cuban exiles voted for Obama who wants thte kids' gloves approach to a terrorist leader, Fidel Castro.

so, how do you explain me then? I'm the son of an immigrant from China. Am I a security threat? Also, your arguement doesn't wash because the Cubans who have made it to the US are some of the most ardent anti-communists around.

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Originally posted by AirForceAggie:

quote:

Originally posted by somethintobraggabout:

quote:

Originally posted by AirForceAggie:

quote:

Originally posted by

I appreciate your point of view and that particular ruling was wrong but I have to disagree that we should so willingly accept individuals joining the armed forces to get their citizenship. In some situations, foreign people make the most ardent and true citizens and soldiers, most are just looking for the easiest way in. I've personally known to many soldiers in solely to get there citizen ship that were a complete detrement to their units. They were not intentionally sabotaging their units but they did not put forth any effort and milked the system at every turn and the rest of us ended up having to do their work or do with out because of their apathy.

I have to respectfully disagree with you. My father entered this country as an immigrant. He enlisted in the Navy because back in the 50s, it was one of the few places where a non-caucasian could get a fair shake. He recieved his citizenship and was accepted into the Naval Academy as a 20 year old plebe. He served the US for 27 years in the Navy. For you to say that immigrants are looking for a free ride is a slap to people like my father. He continued to serve because he believes in this country. He passed that belief to me, who served in the AF, and now to my nephew, who is starting Army ROTC this fall on a scholarship. Frankly, I didn't need the rotc scholarship money and neither does my nephew. We joined because we felt that this country has given so much to my family. Most immigrants come to this country for a better life and to see that their kids don't have to live with the hardships of the home country. Remember, we're talking about legal immigrants here, not illegals. If anything, an immigrant loves this country even more because we know the difference. they earned their citizenship and not just given it because of birth. Just something to consider.

I'm not trying to slap anyone in the face. I'm simply citing personal experience. Some were good and many weren't.

then I would advise you to take a second look. What you are saying is no different than saying that most join the military for the college benefits. That's not true and neither is your assumption that many immigrants are not.

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Originally posted by kipfer:

quote:

Originally posted by AirForceAggie:

quote:

Originally posted by somethintobraggabout:

quote:

Originally posted by AirForceAggie:

quote:

Originally posted by

I appreciate your point of view and that particular ruling was wrong but I have to disagree that we should so willingly accept individuals joining the armed forces to get their citizenship. In some situations, foreign people make the most ardent and true citizens and soldiers, most are just looking for the easiest way in. I've personally known to many soldiers in solely to get there citizen ship that were a complete detrement to their units. They were not intentionally sabotaging their units but they did not put forth any effort and milked the system at every turn and the rest of us ended up having to do their work or do with out because of their apathy.

I have to respectfully disagree with you. My father entered this country as an immigrant. He enlisted in the Navy because back in the 50s, it was one of the few places where a non-caucasian could get a fair shake. He recieved his citizenship and was accepted into the Naval Academy as a 20 year old plebe. He served the US for 27 years in the Navy. For you to say that immigrants are looking for a free ride is a slap to people like my father. He continued to serve because he believes in this country. He passed that belief to me, who served in the AF, and now to my nephew, who is starting Army ROTC this fall on a scholarship. Frankly, I didn't need the rotc scholarship money and neither does my nephew. We joined because we felt that this country has given so much to my family. Most immigrants come to this country for a better life and to see that their kids don't have to live with the hardships of the home country. Remember, we're talking about legal immigrants here, not illegals. If anything, an immigrant loves this country even more because we know the difference. they earned their citizenship and not just given it because of birth. Just something to consider.

I'm not trying to slap anyone in the face. I'm simply citing personal experience. Some were good and many weren't.

then I would advise you to take a second look. What you are saying is no different than saying that most join the military for the college benefits. That's not true and neither is your assumption that many immigrants are not.

I presumed you interpreted my statements as not referring to all. I know my logic. That is what you would call if I referred to all as HASTY GENERALIZATIONS. Actually half or almost half of the Chinese immigrants here in Canada and America are ardent anti-communists. They are willing to risk their lives in China attending underground churches. You read Canada's anti-Chinese communist newspaper EPOCH TIMES and there you will read the most vehement condemnation of the heinous crimes of Chinese communism. Tibetans come here in Caanda as victims of human rights violations, hence, refugees. But you cannot discount the fact that Chinese immigration is sometimes riddled with Chinese spies. Chinese intelligence have billions of dollars to buy investor's visas for her Chinese spies and hide under the cloak of pro-democracy protesters lilke somebody in this forum who is evading me or evasive in arguing with me about Jose Maria Sison,.the Chairman of the communist Party of the Philippines and a registered chinese spy. Documented cases are teeming in cicentre.com. Read them. The first batch of exiles in Florida were genuine anti-communists. But hte second wave of exiles were riddled with spies,, ex-coons and saboteurs. Hence, half of Florida voted for Obama. They were politicized by their parents.. Sorry if I offended you or was not being clear in what i wrote.

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Originally posted by somethintobraggabout:


As with most things, you get a mix of the good and the bad. Unfortunately we tend to get more of the bad lately and the good tend not really take to much action about it. Can't blame the good immigrants for that because most of the citizens born in this country what get off that fat rear ends to do much either.

quote:

Originally posted by kipfer:


I presumed you interpreted my statements as not referring to all. I know my logic. That is what you would call if I referred to all as HASTY GENERALIZATIONS. Actually half or almost half of the Chinese immigrants here in Canada and America are ardent anti-communists. They are willing to risk their lives in China attending underground churches. You read Canada's anti-Chinese communist newspaper EPOCH TIMES and there you will read the most vehement condemnation of the heinous crimes of Chinese communism. Tibetans come here in Caanda as victims of human rights violations, hence, refugees. But you cannot discount the fact that Chinese immigration is sometimes riddled with Chinese spies. Chinese intelligence have billions of dollars to buy investor's visas for her Chinese spies and hide under the cloak of pro-democracy protesters lilke somebody in this forum who is evading me or evasive in arguing with me about Jose Maria Sison,.the Chairman of the communist Party of the Philippines and a registered chinese spy. Documented cases are teeming in cicentre.com. Read them. The first batch of exiles in Florida were genuine anti-communists. But hte second wave of exiles were riddled with spies,, ex-coons and saboteurs. Hence, half of Florida voted for Obama. They were politicized by their parents.. Sorry if I offended you or was not being clear in what i wrote.

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Originally posted by AirForceAggie:

quote:

Originally posted by somethintobraggabout:


As with most things, you get a mix of the good and the bad. Unfortunately we tend to get more of the bad lately and the good tend not really take to much action about it. Can't blame the good immigrants for that because most of the citizens born in this country what get off that fat rear ends to do much either.

Well, I guess that you have your opinion and I have mine. In the high tech field, the majority of engineers I work with are immigrants from China, India and Ireland. In all cases, they are hard working and intelligent people. I've seen the Indian engineers work hours that would break the back of most people. They do it without complaint and they deliver a high quality product. Did you know that 70% of patents deliverd in the high tech sector come from immigrants? Immigrants provide the fuel for American innovation. Without them, companies like Google, eBay, Yahoo, Facebook, etc would not exist. Just something for you to consider.