RE: http://www.military.com/opinio...15202,194875,00.html

rubbish from this guy as usual...

Many on this forum claim to be Constitutional conservatives, dedicated to the principles laid out in the US Constitution. But they betray their own so-called conservatism by unabashedly supporting US wars of intervention and aggression, or as Mr. Eland states, by being "offensive" in nature. We have become our own worst enemies, wrapping ourselves in the flag of false patriotism, unable to break the chains of Empire. Deep down inside many know that our country is sinking into an abyss from which there is no return. The US Empire is going the way of the Roman Empire. What Mr. Eland states is so true, so evident, but the responses he will get from posters on this site will be mostly purile and thoughtless. Thank you Ivan Eland for your intellect, knowledge, wisdom, perceptiveness and great ability to convey your thoughts. Thank you most of all for your conviction and honesty.

Let us suppose agreement with this person's viewpoint (I don't actually agree).

He correctly states that entitlement programs won't be cut because politicians don't dare.

Then he calls "courageous" any irresponsible slashing of existing defense funding.

The Republic of our founding fathers (when we were lucky to defend our own borders) would eschew most of the socialist programs as well as defense spending. That would be bargain indeed -- for as long as we were around to enjoy it.

We live in a different time when the oceans no longer protect us as much as they once did; and when the actions of others depend very much on our courage and leadership -- even when "they" whine about us.

If we are seen to be feckless, others will make the best deal with the devil that they can.


But -- all of that is irrelevant anyway.

The last line on the last post is a typo -- a leftover from something else.

WOW. All I can say is WOW. Welcome to reality. America has been expanding it's "empire" since about 1760 or so. Where should, or what States should we defend? Ask any Cherokee, Crow or Ojibwa about expansion wars.

Does it matter that America hasn't fought a war to gain territory since the turn of the last century? Every foreign war since then has been the logical choice of defending our country far from home and off of our shores, allowing us to remain a mainly demiliterized nation. Should, or even would, all our citizens walk around with automatic rifles strapped to their backs? So much for the anti gun lobby.

Cleaning up procurement is a good thing to do. We slashed our Army under Clinton and are currently reaping what we sow through multiple deployments, worn out equipment and using the National Guard.

Nice discussion, but lacks a basic grasp of reality, political reason, and understanding of history. As usual this guy is either jerking our chain to stimulate discussion or he's a freaking retard.

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The biggest chunk of the non-entitlement budget is defense spending -- sucking up almost $700 billion a year, including the cost of the two wars. Thus, defense spending must be slashed.”
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Maybe you should look at the entitlements that the government is handing out. Slavery in the 1800’s… hell look at it today, millions of sheeple on the government teat. With very little of their own thought process except to get more free handouts, the government is the hand that is holding them down. Creating a huge voting block to who ever promises more, driving our beautiful country further and further into debt.

The so called “intellectual elite” hate the military, because it makes true leaders out its ranks and file. What I have seen, in almost the last decade of vets coming back, are not demoralized or jaded individuals. But of men and women; who at the grass roots understand what courage, nobility, and self-sacrifice is and are willing to fight for it tooth and nail. From your 1st LTs that led from the front to your sergeant/leading petty officer who mentored you from the start. These citizens will later in life challenge the way of life for these “elites”, and that is what scares the liven crap out of them. (A salt of the earth type individual who will actually lead this country. Instead of some buffoon pandering for votes and playing by the rules of the “elites” game.)

Defense spending is a very small part in government spending; yes we should take a look at procurement procedures. Everyone knows about those $50 hammers; because they are the only ones we can buy on the “approved company list” from some “elites” propped up company. But that is the last of our problems; it’s the trillions upon trillions that our “intellectual elites” promise every election cycle to the sheeple…

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Although Secretary of Defense Robert Gates has altered defense priorities, he has not proposed massive defense budget cuts -- unlike Congressman Barney Frank, who has courageously proposed a 50 percent cut in Pentagon funding.
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That whiff… the great congressman who helps over sees Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, whose boards have cooked the books again and again. Whose lending principles that created a moral hazard in lending which lead to the world wide melt down in the credit markets, creating the recession/depression we are in today!?! Please this individual should be locked up in a cell with Madoff for the next 10 thousand years….


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That two-thirds of the Pentagon's major weapon systems experience significant cost overruns and average two years behind schedule indicates that the defense procurement system is a failed socialist enterprise.
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By all means lets field the systems early before they are complete, its only military personnel getting mangled and killed…….


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Yet if we want to cut the Pentagon budget by almost $350 billion a year, these laudable cuts only get us so far. To really put a dent in the $1.2 trillion dollar deficit, the U.S. must end the counterproductive wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and, instead of bringing the forces home, simply dismantle them.
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Oh and lets just raise the white flag while we are at it, and leave our men and women behind in some **** hole. Great exit strategy you stupid ****


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and significantly shrinking the standing armed forces would return America to the fine tradition of the nation's founders.
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If our Founding Fathers were alive today, I bet they would beat you to with whiffle ball bats until your retarded…


This author is author is obviously only one sided, and he plays the stupid blame game. When it is actually both political parties that are the problem… He obviously also does not understand anything about economics. Military spending has a huge multiplier effect on our economy, not just by employing people to create equipment and having soldiers/sailors/airmen on its pay rolls. Its the technology that comes from the military raises our standard of living and gives civilians chance to serve which creates outstanding tried & true leaders. Unlike most of the social programs which have the exact opposite effect…

Economic problems… take a look at Social Security and Medicaid.. 70 trillion and counting in IOUs by 2020. Plus now with government run healthcare to saving the earth to Government Motors to running even more financial institutions to yeah lets tax the crap out of everyone because it makes you feel better; which makes unemployment go even higher which gets even more sheeple on the government teat which raises even more debt… god you cant get much better than that…

If you want lower medical costs, then bring in tort reform, and create more HSAs. That would knock the cost problems right into the dirt. Social Security is a ponzi scheme in which the only way to save it is to create individual accounts. A very expensive option, but it is the only one that will truly solve the problem. All the other options just push the problem further down the line and creating an even larger liability in the end, and still keeps the government hand in the cookie jar… Yes this current administration is getting a bad rapport because it is asking all the lemmings to follow it right off the cliff with its economic plan and some are starting to finally wake to what is really at stake…..

Another Democrat "dumb idea." Barney Frank wants to slash the defense budget to buy votes for ACORN and other ideas. President Obama owns the economy now, quit blaming Bush. I do not believe the American people want the defense budget cut 50%. We'll see.

This writer sounds like another socialist.

When the fighting ends up being here in our front lawns,what then? I've served,would like to serve again and praise and pray for our troops now defending this country.I don't appreciate anyone trying to cheapen their efforts.I'm new to this sight and wonder if this writer is always this way...or just a liberal dem?? You can't have it both ways..security of this country is money i don't mind seeing spent!Bail out's to coorp America aren't.Support our troops! Period.....

quote:

Originally posted by Misanthrope2:
Many on this forum claim to be Constitutional conservatives, dedicated to the principles laid out in the US Constitution. But they betray their own so-called conservatism by unabashedly supporting US wars of intervention and aggression, or as Mr. Eland states, by being "offensive" in nature. We have become our own worst enemies, wrapping ourselves in the flag of false patriotism, unable to break the chains of Empire. Deep down inside many know that our country is sinking into an abyss from which there is no return. The US Empire is going the way of the Roman Empire. What Mr. Eland states is so true, so evident, but the responses he will get from posters on this site will be mostly purile and thoughtless. Thank you Ivan Eland for your intellect, knowledge, wisdom, perceptiveness and great ability to convey your thoughts. Thank you most of all for your conviction and honesty.

America does not invade to occupy or rule the country. Majority of citizens of foreign lands liberated from tyrants are democratic and anti-communists. The communists of America rejoiced and clapped their hands when the Soviet Union triumphed into making Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Germany, Rumania, Poland, Yugoslavia into satellite states. Other American communists 'condemned American "imperialism" but is apathetic to the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Some were vocal but only to appear objective but silent on wars waged by Communist countries like Cuba when Fidel sent his troops to invade and occupy Angola.

It is axiomatic for the Republicans that to cut taxes, would entail more investments, hence, more revenues or taxes, hence more welfare (like the welfare recipients in San Diego, California who spend their checks on horseracing). Obama is contradicting this axiomatic logical rule in economics.

There is the law of supply and demand. The greater the demand, the higher the wages. Train operators, building contractors, factory workers, caregivers earn high waages because majority of native Caucasian Americans refuse to toil in manual labor, hence, there is great demand for them, likewise the wages.

Obama does not know anything about economics. If he left car manufacturers on their own and had not bailed them out, they will be forced to improve their quality and sell their products at competitive prices. But what did Obama do? He spoiled them all by bailing them out therefore ruining the car industry.

The very minute that an elected President, along with an elected Congress committed the traitorous act of taking our system of currency off of "our gold standard", & prostituted it to the financial vagueness of the international currency stock market; it spelled the doom of our "there-to-for" strong & unequaled system of currency. In co-committing this traitorous crime, it committed the growing prosperity of every working & taxpaying American, that they abidingly & faithfully labored for, to become criminally diluted to the present. Shame on these traitors, everyone; & that each & every greedy one of them should be genuinely impeached, then brought to judicial trial...whether alive or after death (for after death does not relieve anyone of their actions to any & all here in this world).

quote:

Originally posted by Misanthrope2:
Many on this forum claim to be Constitutional conservatives, dedicated to the principles laid out in the US Constitution. But they betray their own so-called conservatism by unabashedly supporting US wars of intervention and aggression, or as Mr. Eland states, by being "offensive" in nature. We have become our own worst enemies, wrapping ourselves in the flag of false patriotism, unable to break the chains of Empire. Deep down inside many know that our country is sinking into an abyss from which there is no return. The US Empire is going the way of the Roman Empire. What Mr. Eland states is so true, so evident, but the responses he will get from posters on this site will be mostly purile and thoughtless. Thank you Ivan Eland for your intellect, knowledge, wisdom, perceptiveness and great ability to convey your thoughts. Thank you most of all for your conviction and honesty.

HEADLINE TODAY: IRAQ ARMY ASSUMES CONTROL AS US FORCES LEAVE THE COUNTRY.

A fundemental lack of understanding when it comes to even the most basic economic prinicples has hamstrung Eland's infantile analysis of the problem (as is evident by his use of the term "surplus").

How about a curbing of "counterproductive" social programs that are out of control? How about a streamlining of redundant and useless bureaucracy that cripples the government at every level? How about an aggressive revamping of DoD's procurment program to curb runaway costs on defense systems?

Yet another questionable op-ed on a "military" forum.

quote:

Originally posted by jumper297:
A fundemental lack of understanding when it comes to even the most basic economic prinicples has hamstrung Eland's infantile analysis of the problem (as is evident by his use of the term "surplus").

How about a curbing of "counterproductive" social programs that are out of control? How about a streamlining of redundant and useless bureaucracy that cripples the government at every level? How about an aggressive revamping of DoD's procurment program to curb runaway costs on defense systems?

Yet another questionable op-ed on a "military" forum.

Yup! You're right, jumper. No wonder Mona Charen labelled Democrats as 'useful idiots'.
No wonder security experts refer to the Democratic Party as dip ins for Cuban and Chinese espionage. No wonder Ann Coulter described American liberals as "if liberals had brains, they'll be Republicans". The quagmire USA has been in now is caused by unproductive legislation that countered Conservative productiveness. Axiomatic for Republicans is "to cut taxes to spur investments, hence, the more revenues, the more welfare." Obama contradicts these axioms which lead America into destitution. For the moment America is the number 1 superpower in the world. Nobody can match them.

How else can you win against a demagogue Obama when it is against sinful conscience to jump on the bandwagoon with his "tax the rich, share them with the poor". That is deceitful behaviour and thinking. Who doesn't want to accept those doles he is offering through socialism which goes counterproductive in making America the richest economy in the world. God knows even the numbers of our hair!!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: kipfer,

quote:

Originally posted by kipfer:

quote:

Originally posted by Misanthrope2:
Many on this forum claim to be Constitutional conservatives, dedicated to the principles laid out in the US Constitution. But they betray their own so-called conservatism by unabashedly supporting US wars of intervention and aggression, or as Mr. Eland states, by being "offensive" in nature. We have become our own worst enemies, wrapping ourselves in the flag of false patriotism, unable to break the chains of Empire. Deep down inside many know that our country is sinking into an abyss from which there is no return. The US Empire is going the way of the Roman Empire. What Mr. Eland states is so true, so evident, but the responses he will get from posters on this site will be mostly purile and thoughtless. Thank you Ivan Eland for your intellect, knowledge, wisdom, perceptiveness and great ability to convey your thoughts. Thank you most of all for your conviction and honesty.

HEADLINE TODAY: IRAQ ARMY ASSUMES CONTROL AS US FORCES LEAVE THE COUNTRY.

Iraq Nationals: 1 US Invaders: 0
Afghan Freedom Fighters: 1 US Invaders: 0

The US has lost a double header in the ME. Who do we "play" next?

quote:

Originally posted by Misanthrope2:

quote:

Originally posted by kipfer:

quote:

Originally posted by Misanthrope2:
Many on this forum claim to be Constitutional conservatives, dedicated to the principles laid out in the US Constitution. But they betray their own so-called conservatism by unabashedly supporting US wars of intervention and aggression, or as Mr. Eland states, by being "offensive" in nature. We have become our own worst enemies, wrapping ourselves in the flag of false patriotism, unable to break the chains of Empire. Deep down inside many know that our country is sinking into an abyss from which there is no return. The US Empire is going the way of the Roman Empire. What Mr. Eland states is so true, so evident, but the responses he will get from posters on this site will be mostly purile and thoughtless. Thank you Ivan Eland for your intellect, knowledge, wisdom, perceptiveness and great ability to convey your thoughts. Thank you most of all for your conviction and honesty.

HEADLINE TODAY: IRAQ ARMY ASSUMES CONTROL AS US FORCES LEAVE THE COUNTRY.

Iraq Nationals: 1 US Invaders: 0
Afghan Freedom Fighters: 1 US Invaders: 0

The US has lost a double header in the ME. Who do we "play" next?

Iraq is a sovereign nation and accepts no dictation from USA. When the Iraqi legislators table a bill, they are not obligated to ask US what is to be done nor US pass a law in US Congress that they have the right to influence or dictate Iraqi islation lest they violate international law. Now, you keep mouthing that 'invader' libelous invectives, some 'infallible' ex-President like Bush or any leader among the Coalition of the Willing might indict you for libel and there you go invade US penitentiary with your illogical brand of activism.

quote:

Misanthrope2
Member
Posted Tue 14 July 2009 04:18 PM Hide Post
Many on this forum claim to be Constitutional conservatives, dedicated to the principles laid out in the US Constitution. But they betray their own so-called conservatism by unabashedly supporting US wars of intervention and aggression, or as Mr. Eland states, by being "offensive" in nature. We have become our own worst enemies, wrapping ourselves in the flag of false patriotism, unable to break the chains of Empire. Deep down inside many know that our country is sinking into an abyss from which there is no return. The US Empire is going the way of the Roman Empire. What Mr. Eland states is so true, so evident, but the responses he will get from posters on this site will be mostly purile and thoughtless. Thank you Ivan Eland for your intellect, knowledge, wisdom, perceptiveness and great ability to convey your thoughts. Thank you most of all for your conviction and honesty.

Yes, our Country will go the way of the Roman empire with the likes of Ivan Eland, Carter,Cigar Clinton and now the super oreo, obama mama promoting their lack of understanding of World Politics or events. Bama has been tested by other countries and events more in less than 6 months than any other President in the last 20 years and he has not done anything to stop it, love this oreo.

The Republican way of reasoning is what attracts level headed persons to Conservatism like those who deal with every one in good faith, those who have fear of God and those devoid of ill-intentions on USA. I am impressed and sometimes amazed when John McCain and George Bush deliver their speeches and voice out their opinions. They're consistent and assume responsibilities. No flip-flopping like Obama. Flip-flopping is sometimes done to cover up for past mistakes or statements said in bad faith.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: kipfer,

quote:

Originally posted by kipfer:

quote:

Originally posted by Misanthrope2:

quote:

Originally posted by kipfer:

quote:

Originally posted by Misanthrope2:
Many on this forum claim to be Constitutional conservatives, dedicated to the principles laid out in the US Constitution. But they betray their own so-called conservatism by unabashedly supporting US wars of intervention and aggression, or as Mr. Eland states, by being "offensive" in nature. We have become our own worst enemies, wrapping ourselves in the flag of false patriotism, unable to break the chains of Empire. Deep down inside many know that our country is sinking into an abyss from which there is no return. The US Empire is going the way of the Roman Empire. What Mr. Eland states is so true, so evident, but the responses he will get from posters on this site will be mostly purile and thoughtless. Thank you Ivan Eland for your intellect, knowledge, wisdom, perceptiveness and great ability to convey your thoughts. Thank you most of all for your conviction and honesty.

HEADLINE TODAY: IRAQ ARMY ASSUMES CONTROL AS US FORCES LEAVE THE COUNTRY.

Iraq Nationals: 1 US Invaders: 0
Afghan Freedom Fighters: 1 US Invaders: 0

The US has lost a double header in the ME. Who do we "play" next?

Iraq is a sovereign nation and accepts no dictation from USA. When the Iraqi legislators table a bill, they are not obligated to ask US what is to be done nor US pass a law in US Congress that they have the right to influence or dictate Iraqi islation lest they violate international law. Now, you keep mouthing that 'invader' libelous invectives, some 'infallible' ex-President like Bush or any leader among the Coalition of the Willing might indict you for libel and there you go invade US penitentiary with your illogical brand of activism.

You call it libel simply because you disagree. I call it freedom of speech - I think it's still guaranteed in our Constitution. As for Iraq being a sovereign country wth the ability to dictate its own policies without interference from the US - that's pure poppycock. Iraq hasn't been a sovereign nation since the US and its hired guns from the "coaliton" "invaded" and destroyed that hapless country. Having expended the lives of more than 4,000 Americans and billions and billions of dollars on this misadventure, the US has decided pack up and depart, leaving a nation and its people totally devastated. We are now taking our toys to Afghanistan where it will be deja vue all over again. We'll just keep at it until we "war" ourselves into oblivion. How's that for my illogical brand of activism?

quote:

Originally posted by Misanthrope2:

quote:

Originally posted by kipfer:

quote:

Originally posted by Misanthrope2:

quote:

Originally posted by kipfer:

quote:

Originally posted by Misanthrope2:
Many on this forum claim to be Constitutional conservatives, dedicated to the principles laid out in the US Constitution. But they betray their own so-called conservatism by unabashedly supporting US wars of intervention and aggression, or as Mr. Eland states, by being "offensive" in nature. We have become our own worst enemies, wrapping ourselves in the flag of false patriotism, unable to break the chains of Empire. Deep down inside many know that our country is sinking into an abyss from which there is no return. The US Empire is going the way of the Roman Empire. What Mr. Eland states is so true, so evident, but the responses he will get from posters on this site will be mostly purile and thoughtless. Thank you Ivan Eland for your intellect, knowledge, wisdom, perceptiveness and great ability to convey your thoughts. Thank you most of all for your conviction and honesty.

HEADLINE TODAY: IRAQ ARMY ASSUMES CONTROL AS US FORCES LEAVE THE COUNTRY.

Iraq Nationals: 1 US Invaders: 0
Afghan Freedom Fighters: 1 US Invaders: 0

The US has lost a double header in the ME. Who do we "play" next?

Iraq is a sovereign nation and accepts no dictation from USA. When the Iraqi legislators table a bill, they are not obligated to ask US what is to be done nor US pass a law in US Congress that they have the right to influence or dictate Iraqi islation lest they violate international law. Now, you keep mouthing that 'invader' libelous invectives, some 'infallible' ex-President like Bush or any leader among the Coalition of the Willing might indict you for libel and there you go invade US penitentiary with your illogical brand of activism.

You call it libel simply because you disagree. I call it freedom of speech - I think it's still guaranteed in our Constitution. As for Iraq being a sovereign country wth the ability to dictate its own policies without interference from the US - that's pure poppycock. Iraq hasn't been a sovereign nation since the US and its hired guns from the "coaliton" "invaded" and destroyed that hapless country. Having expended the lives of more than 4,000 Americans and billions and billions of dollars on this misadventure, the US has decided pack up and depart, leaving a nation and its people totally devastated. We are now taking our toys to Afghanistan where it will be deja vue all over again. We'll just keep at it until we "war" ourselves into oblivion. How's that for my illogical brand of activism?

You can call it freedom of speech but under the law, you're an alleged (note the word 'alleged', everyone shouuld be presumed innocent until proven guilty) slanderer. Put your place in the place of any leader of the Coalition of the Willing and call him an 'accessory or co-principal or accomplice' to invasion, how would you feel? You'll feel as if someone with birsmich reputation, ain't it? You want to invite the Supreme Court Justices in this forum? You don't know anything about the law, you try to argue with a lawyer like me? You are like an alleged Chinese spy named MSantor or Mcentaur, keeps on hitting and hitting and missing aimlessly!! What if I call you a '***got' (that is libel assuming you are not), how would you feel? or a '***got invading a bathhouse'? I am not putting you in ridicule. Just an example.

quote:

Originally posted by kipfer:

quote:

Originally posted by jumper297:
A fundemental lack of understanding when it comes to even the most basic economic prinicples has hamstrung Eland's infantile analysis of the problem (as is evident by his use of the term "surplus").

How about a curbing of "counterproductive" social programs that are out of control? How about a streamlining of redundant and useless bureaucracy that cripples the government at every level? How about an aggressive revamping of DoD's procurment program to curb runaway costs on defense systems?

Yet another questionable op-ed on a "military" forum.

Yup! You're right, jumper. No wonder Mona Charen labelled Democrats as 'useful idiots'.
No wonder security experts refer to the Democratic Party as dip ins for Cuban and Chinese espionage. No wonder Ann Coulter described American liberals as "if liberals had brains, they'll be Republicans". The quagmire USA has been in now is caused by unproductive legislation that countered Conservative productiveness. Axiomatic for Republicans is "to cut taxes to spur investments, hence, the more revenues, the more welfare." Obama contradicts these axioms which lead America into destitution. For the moment America is the number 1 superpower in the world. Nobody can match them.

How else can you win against a demagogue Obama when it is against sinful conscience to jump on the bandwagoon with his "tax the rich, share them with the poor". That is deceitful behaviour and thinking. Who doesn't want to accept those doles he is offering through socialism which goes counterproductive in making America the richest economy in the world. God knows even the numbers of our hair!!

I wouldn't take anything that Coulter or Limbaugh seriously. They are nothing but "entertainers" (and labeled as such so they don't have to be bothered with trivial things like "facts").

Most people in the US don't agree with her "if liberal had brains they'll be republicans" as is evidenced by
a Pew Research poll, that clearly shows the republican party in horrifying decline: only 23% of Americans
admit to being republicans, and the number is dropping fast as that party moves even faster to the fringe.

The poll also states that the democrats (39%) are losing ground as well (the republican losses don't translate
to wins for the democrats), but not nearly as fast: both parties members are now going independent/unenrolled as Americans are less able to stomach either party.