RE: http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,165569,00.html

I dedicate this article to memory of the selfless warriors who have fallen in battle honoring this Great Nation.

SF/Joseph Kinney

After all of the plaudits are made for our present "all volunteer" military forces, & the great jobs that they are, most undoubtedly, doing in defense of their nation; it still begs the question...Are all strata of our society really being represented in service to our great nation? I personally think not...That the only way this issue can really be addressed is a comprehensive & all encompassing national draft policy. This is most necessary, as the light was shone on it back to the days of the Somerville Marines, & how the so-called privileged class found ways to shirk their duties to Country....

Mr. Kinney:

Thank you very much for an article which touched close to home.

I have experienced life on both sides of the divide you mentioned - as a graduate of an Ivy League school and (recently) the spouse of an Ivy League officer.

I was working at a D.C. law firm when my wife elected to commission into the Army. Many of the other attorneys were graduates of prominent law schools, and only one (to my knowledge) had any military experience.

When I mentioned (very proudly) to other attorneys that my wife, anxious to assist soldiers suffering from mental health problems, would be commissioning into the Army as a Social Worker and that I would be joining her on-post, I was struck by the virtually total disinterest on the part of the attorneys to the sacrifices she (and we) would be making. No one was hostile to the military or to what we were doing - rather the military was just completely off their radar screen.

I agree with Mr. Kinney that it is unhealthy for so much of the country to rely on so few to protect us, particularly when it is generally the ones who have benefited the most from our society who are in general the least likely to serve.

It would not be a bad thing if all of us served for one or two years, if not in the military, than in some other form of national service. (I served in the Peace Corps). It would be a valuable thing for people to briefly be a part of something more important than themselves, and probably make them better citizens the rest of their lives.

Thank you again for your article and your service, Officer Kinney.

Bring back the draft, and no exceptions this time ... none.

We have an all volunteer force now, why would you want to force people who didn't want to be there, to be there? All for what? Jealousy disguised as wanting to be "fair"? People complain about the loop holes in the tax system the so-called "priviliged" (I say so called because we are all priviliged to live in this country. Some just live by better means is all)in this country take advantage of, how bad do you think it will be when they find new ones to avoid a draft? I agree that if a war necessitates a draft there should be no exceptions such as being in college.

I agree with RPCVDR that for those not meant for the military should have some alternate civil choices. But to force someone who doesn't want to when they aren't needed would cause serious damage to the Armed Forces. What about the wealthy kid who decides to slack off in boot camp? In order for him to pass you would have to decrease training standards.


While I appreciate Mr. Kinney's article (and say hello from neighboring Ralieigh!) I'm very wary of forcing people to do anything that isn't currently necessary, in my opinion.

Everyone knows how to ENJOY their freedom only a few know how to EARN it.

The solution could be, for our folks in congress and the administration, to go to their home districts and campaign for voluteers. If they believe that wars are such a noble cause and it is such a patriotic endeavor to serve this country, why not?

Whether one agrees to a war is not important to do the job, and whether one is a volunteer or is drafted should not make a difference. The job is done because a commitment is made.

Perhaps the draft would be the way to solve the troop shortage, but the Marine Corps very seldom has had to draft. We do not have that problem. Semper Fidelis. Blackcoat.

I serves in Vietnam I was sent and asked no questions. We had an Ex president, who dradged the draft and the people still elected this person.
Now he is campaigning for his wife. Everybody knows this man is a proven LIAR and the people of United States is still listening to him. Besides paying him millions to make speaches.
His wife is just as big a liar as this man. And the people has voted in the primaries for her because she is a woman.
Read "Dereliction of Duty" and see what the MIGHTY CLINTONS think about the military.
I shudder thinking about her getting elected and what she will do to the military.
GY

quote:

No one was hostile to the military or to what we were doing - rather the military was just completely off their radar screen.

RPCVDR,
And that is really the jist of the problem today. Our society is so compartmentalized that while some address the needs of national defense and/or willingly fight in Americas wars, others find other priorities in life.

Out of my 1974 high school class of over four hundred students, only two of us joined the armed forces. When I chose to serve in Iraq with DoD at the age of fifty, many people asked, "Why would you want to do that?" Only a detached and apathetic segment of society would ask such a question. I can almost understand and even respect someone who is actively and sincerely against the war, and while I would argue against their philosophy, I could at least respect them a little for their efforts, regardess of their mistaken beliefs. The apathetic citizan is the person that worries me most. Apathy takes no stand and is the greatest comforter to our enemies.

Therefore, reinstating a draft isn't going to change anything other than water down the training and fill the ranks with disgruntled personnel. The answer is for society to decide that it wants to be a nation that can close ranks, make sacrifices and defend itself just as we did during World War II. How many children know enough about the history of this country to get a grasp of who we are as a nation. How many Americans know that national defense is the single most important issue in any country? How many Americans know that our own personal and family economy is directly related to a strong national economy, which in turn is necessary to prepare for, and win wars?

Perhaps I covered more ground than necessary for the topic; but, these are the things that have to be addressed before we can recover what we once were sixty years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by Tanks35:
Like John Kerry said "Stay in school or end up in Iraq"!!! That A-HOLE

Not that I particularly like Kerry, but....Kerry stated he mis-spoke when that was said. He stated what he meant was you have to learn from history or are doomed to repeat it.

However, if anyone wishes to hold him accountable for the EXACT statement, not what was meant, then we have to hold ALL politicians responsible for their verbatim statements. Here are a few quotes from the current POTUS.

"F *** Saddam. We're taking him out." --to three U.S. senators in March 2002, one year before the Iraq invasion, as quoted by Time magazine

"Oh, no, we're not going to have any casualties." --discussing the Iraq war with Christian Coalition founder Pat Robertson in 2003, as quoted by Robertson

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." --Washington, D.C., Sept. 13, 2001

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." --Washington, D.C., March 13, 2002

"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." --Washington, D.C., Dec. 19, 2000

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." --Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004

No discussion sorry. Up to every able bodied American to serve and do there fair share.

This article comes very close to stating what many are starting to realize and to talk about, and that is that this "all volunteer" military will not sustain nor keep this country for much longer and that ALL those between 18 and 26 should serve this country for at least two years either in the military or some form of National Peace Corps, serving in their own states or elsewhere in the States.

It's inevitable. No more passes for the wealthy, the privileged. We all live here, let's all join together to take care of this country and those who live within our borders.

We must give back to our own first, to strengthen our own, care for our own to teach them to care for themselves.

Wonderful article.

quote:

Originally posted by DragonRider01:

quote:

Originally posted by Tanks35:
Like John Kerry said "Stay in school or end up in Iraq"!!! That A-HOLE

Not that I particularly like Kerry, but....Kerry stated he mis-spoke when that was said. He stated what he meant was you have to learn from history or are doomed to repeat it.

However, if anyone wishes to hold him accountable for the EXACT statement, not what was meant, then we have to hold ALL politicians responsible for their verbatim statements. Here are a few quotes from the current POTUS.

"F *** Saddam. We're taking him out." --to three U.S. senators in March 2002, one year before the Iraq invasion, as quoted by Time magazine

"Oh, no, we're not going to have any casualties." --discussing the Iraq war with Christian Coalition founder Pat Robertson in 2003, as quoted by Robertson

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." --Washington, D.C., Sept. 13, 2001

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." --Washington, D.C., March 13, 2002

"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." --Washington, D.C., Dec. 19, 2000

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." --Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004

I understand he says he "mis-stated" (actually didn't he say it was a joke with a bad delivery? or was that something else?) but I have a very hard time saying "Oh, that's what he meant" and being cool with it, because the point he claims he was trying to make was much more detailed and specific. Its quite a misstep to go from staying in school or being sent to Iraq. Its been awhile since I watched the clip, but if I recall he hadn't said anything about Iraq up unto that point. There was no talk of learning from history. I blabber on... sorry :-)

This is nothing new. The last time the rich and famous served with a few exceptions was WWII.
Since then there have been many ways for the wealthy to avoid service. Bush and others like him are a joke. The reserves sat fat and happy at home particularly those who were not only from wealthy families but had political influence. Now the same guy has not only called up the reserves but the National Guard.Remember his rich friends sent their kids to expensive schools and
provided the finest education that money could buy.They have never had their hands dirty nor have
their families had to sit glued to the news hoping and praying that their children would not be killed or disabled for life.Michael Moore went around to the senators and congressmen with enlistment contracts for their kids.No takers! Say what you want about him but he had a point.When Their kids lives are on the line you can bet policy will change.Please spare me the exceptions I know about them.Fact is the majority of them will never serve one day.Gary Lewis son of Jerry Lewis did serve but as I said he was the exception.I was drafted in 69 got out in 71
went in the Navy in 73.The article is well written as you might expect and illustrates how things have changed.Todays all volunteer force is primarily composed of men and women who do not have rich families also.Those such as doctors who have college educations which would pay well in the civil sector are serving to repay the military for the years of education they have received.There are others in diffrent vocations doing the same thing.What it comes down to is that many of todays youth don't feel they owe anything and especially the children of the rich.
It is all about Me Me Me! Of course when you have a guy who becomes President who was a draft dodger what can you expect.During WWII many of the Hollywood actors served except John Wayne.
Jimmy Stewart flew bombing missions Eddie Albert drove landing craft for beach assaults.Point is
where are the role models.Todays role models seem to be Rap Stars who advocate drugs violence and
a general lack of respect for any authority.Then there are the highly overpaid atheletes who have
never served with one exception.Tillman.Finally for those who want to be a corporate CEO who is paid millions for getting rid of jobs screwing the workers over and many times ripping off the public in general.Eron etc. Then even if they screw up the company they get paid a fat bonus on the way out the door.HP a prime example.Given all this is it any wonder why things are the way they are.If you want to be rich you will never do it in the military.I commend those who have chosen to serve but I can't help but think that all men and women that are physically able should
be required to serve regardless of how rich their parents are.That will never happen because of the way the draft was abused in the past but it would really do my heart good to see the rich with a srub brush cleaning toilets and taking out the garbage from the messhall.One thing for sure they will never serve 22yrs as I did.

Mr. Kinney
Thank you for remembering Somerville's Marines. Many of the Marines killed were childhood friends of mine. Through 1967 to 1969, while in high school I worked at Harvard Business School as a bus boy at Kresgee dining hall. In June 69 I graduated from Somerville High, on my 18th birthday in September I enlisted in the Marines and was in Vietnam by Febuary. Since the wars' end Somerville continues to honor our fallen heros, examples include: The Somerville/Cambridge Vietnam Monumet, built with private donations, includes all the names and branch of secvice of the young men killed in Vietnam from both cities and over the years many parks, squares, intersections and buildings have been named after Somerville's fallen Marines. Somerville has always been a strong Marine Corp City and will continue to honor all of our active service members and veterans.
P.S. Is there any way to get a copy of the paper you refered to?
Semper Fi.

quote:

Bring back the draft, and no exceptions this time ... none.

No.
There are so many reasons why thats a terrible idea. I don't want my entire generation in the military.

Let me serve with those that are willing.

Two things jump to mind because of this profound article. First the school that I work in has a similar reputation to Somerville. Our Lady of Guadalupe parish in Chicago had the most members killed during the Vietnam war...more than any other Catholic parish. The community is Mexican. First generation immigrants and their descendants populate the S.E. side of Chicago. They came to work in steel mills that would close just as the community was thriving. It seems all too common that the least enfranchised citizens carry the burden for the power elite few.

That is why I believe in universal conscription. The German's have a model that works. If you go combat arms (infantry, artillery, tanks, etc.) your term is 12 months. If you go supporting arms (supply, admin., etc.) then you are in for 18 mos. I you want to do civil service ( empty bed pans at the state hospital) you get 24 months. There are of course career military personell but they are few and far between. I suggest reading "AWOL" by Douthette and Schaeffer. It address the subject well.

regards,
Carl M. Ploense III

First off, if the DOD were getting the budgets they'd need, they'd have a better number of scholarships to put in front of students across the board. They would also be increasing the number of divisions/wings etc and the active duty force in general. Stop force shaping and pay the service members a salary which is commensurate to the work to stop the brain drain of experienced officers and NCOs. Many that are and continue to serve do so with the understanding that they are taking a pay cut to civilian salaries.

Several posts have touched on the real problem this story alludes to. I agree with all those who recommend some form of mandatory National service, be it military, Peace Corps, or some other service to our communities. That however will only do so much to address the root problem which is a lack of responsibility or commitment to our fellow Americans. Our society has become more about entitlement and rights than duty or responsibility. People have stopped asking what they can do for their country and only want to know what their country can do for them. Without any sense of community or understanding of the great gift we have received by being fortunate enough to be Americans, there is no understanding of the sacrifices made by prior generations to give us that gift. Once that is forgotten it is easy to tear down what America used to stand for with impunity and to disavow any debt that citizenship might infer. It is particularly easy for the educated elite to pursue other, more financially rewarding careers.