As long as the standards are the same and they don't get offended by salty language.
My point is old, but still valid to me so please hear me out (or call me a dinosaur and give me a warning/suspended account/canceled account).
Different MOSs have different standards. An 11b needs to be able to lift heavy objects, march long distances, and drink heavily. A 42a needs to be able to stand obnoxious people all day, do an obscene amount of paperwork, and drink heavily.
So why can't the Army create individual standards per MOS (with an Army minimum built in somewhere), and make the standards universal regardless of the gender of the service member?
It sounds reasonable to me, it gives no one an advantage, and it ends a lot of arguments against having females serve along side their male counterparts.
BTW I've served with quite a few females that are hardcore warriors and drive to be the best soldier in their Battalion.

On to my second point, first of all I'd like to state that I don't disagree with all of the Army's sexual harassment training, just half of it. Dirty words, pictures, and jokes to me are entertaining and usually fun. However sometimes people are offended, those people need to leave (the area, not the Army). I've done that many times when people are telling racist jokes about Jewish people, and "missing out" of those conversation had zero effect on my career. I don't see why certain people feel the need to stop Warriors who are trained to kill people from telling off color jokes. At this point we (myself and others in my battalion) are so scared of hurting our careers that we stop talking when a female enters the room, and begin again when the female leaves.
Really I can understand why some speech is not tolerated (such as approaching someone and explaining your desire to f that person, and such), but hearing a four letter word should not hurt a warriors feelings.
BTW there are good eggs out there that actively participate in entertaining conversations, and I'm not just talking about women in this case.

Sorry about my rant, and have a fine Army day.

What's a 42A?

I believe those physical classifications already exist. It is called the Physical Demands Rating. Infantry (11b) is classed as very heavy. Now as to how much these standards are enforced, well as I've been out for many years you would ba a better judge than me. If you are speaking of assigning women as 11bs there are other reasons for their exclusion besides physical capabilities.

I'm not here to debate women in combat (asymmetrical warfare has ended that argument), 42a is admin, the PDR is not enforced (it's merely meant as a recruitment guide for potential soldiers choosing jobs), and at this point the APFT could easily be adjusted for individual jobs.

My perception is that, though both extremes exist, it seems when sexual harrassment complaints are made, the consensus is that she is the problem.

I've even noticed that behavior coming from other women.

True story: A male acquaintance in my first command was accused of some tasteless doings. After a lot of heartache, the command investigation found nothing and let it go. I sympathized with him, since I knew him and not her. I thought she was lying scum.

Fast forward a year: different deployment, different female, same (or similar) complaint. Once again, much ado about nothing, as it all just got dismissed. I again sympathized with his bad luck.

When a future third, unrelated "false" accusation came about, everyone's eyebrowns were raised, including those of us who "knew" he'd never do such things. His previous command informed ours of similar problems with him, which I learned when he foolishly confided in me that his last CO was "out to get him".

Navy women and commanding officers were after him with a vengeance, for no reason whatsoever, just coincidentally over and over! The anguish! The bad reputation! He insisted he was completely, 100%-cross-my-heart-hope-to-die guilt-free.

In the end, he just got sent elsewhere; nothing could ever be proven, and somehow he managed to successfully diminish the credibility of all the women involved, who happen to be brand spanking new in the Navy.

Looking back, I analyze the times spent and conversations had with him, and all sorts of questions about his character arise. But, we all know what they say about hindsight.

I wouldn't have seen it coming.

Duchess, maybe we should move this discussion to a new thread?

R/

Duchess,

I just meant if this discussion should be its own topic, as opposed to under "Women are OK with me in the military"... I guess it's fine here.

Google is your friend, Monty. It's not rocket science to find military females who have given their lives or served with great bravery and honor.

I'll name only two:

1LT Sharon A. Lane - an Army Nurse who, while on duty in Cu Chi, was hit in the neck by shrapnel from a rocket attack on her hospital. She bled to death. Her name is on the Wall.

MAJ Marie Rossi - helicopter pilot in the first Gulf War (Desert Shield/Storm), shot down. She is buried at Arlington.

Scores of military women died in WWII - North Africa and Anzio were two of the costliest campaigns in terms of KIA women.

As for those who have died in OIF/OEF, they are TNTC as lab rats like to say ("too numerous to count"). We CAN count them, but it is a very high number.

Cider- Thanks for you post!!

Monty- What's the difference? I don't care if if your male/female, the minute someone puts that uniform on and they serve their country, they deserve to be treated equally.

That is the point Cider and the rest of us have been trying to make to you..


You appalling discrimination towards women is wearing thin with me..

Monty- Apparently you have choosen to erase your post(s). I tried to log in earlier, however, the system wouldn't recognize my 'cookie' for whatever reason.. I digress however. If you hadn't removed or for that matter, edited you most recent post, you would be currently serving a vacation at this time. I would email you however it seems you have decided to make you profile private ( which is your progative, however it will make it much more difficult for you to be taken seriously by other here.)

Now girl friend that is what I am talking about. If, Stop let me run all the way up the Rockies, I can see old Beautiful and its spacious skies __good, IF YOU"RE GOING TO MAN UP DO IT. I have no respect for wimps and don't ever threaten me again ___you would not like me when I'm mad. Moderator my ass you hear the truth and Cinderella is traumatized and pulls her magic restriction. I guarantee you can call me what you want and fantasize about Cindy’s world and on my Blogs I invite every to bring it that is what I fought for and still manning
up


You are suspended until further notice. I will NOT tolerated this type of behaviour here...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: pipedreamsandbabies,

lol, well message boards aren't exactly free speech zones most of the time as my many bans will attest. You troll a women’s forum talking **** about rape and are suprised a mod got on your a$$.

Actually that was special delivery for pipe dream. I did not know she launch her message from this point. I will leave it up for a few hours or until Cindy gets rid of her headache. I do apologize to those that are dealing with real issues.

Good work, pd&b - good riddance to bad rubbish.

How sad.

A fellow Seabee talking a lot of nonsense.

From his previous posts, I see that he's a really old generation Bee.

Hey, Monty! With all due respect, (and I say this with sincere hats off to my Seabee brothers from the 'Nam generation), your outdated opinions are nothing short of obsolete...

The Bees have changed radically from your old days, but I don't expect you to understand the new Battalions anymore than I'd expect my 95-year-old grandmother to understand the latest technology out there. Psst, Monty: Don't tell anyone, old Bee, but female Seabees have been deploying to Iraq right along with fellas like you. And try not to $hit yourself, but they are even issuing orders!

If at least your argument was put forth in proper grammar and context, we could try to understand where you are coming from...

R/

I thought I would throw in my two cents. I really like females in the service – in fact I love them. I married one almost 48 years ago – still together. We have a daughter with 26 years and counting in the CG (MCPO), a niece who is medically retired from the AF, and a granddaughter who is scheduled to enlist when she completes her degree next month. My last 10 years of active duty, 67-77, were all in combat units and no females were assigned in those days.

quote:

Originally posted by minifigga:
I don't see any problems with girls being in the Armed Forces and I don't understand why it's always been such a big deal...

The first problem is they have a higher rate of nondeployment compared to men.

The second is that we are in an "assymetrical warfare" environment, and women are not as capable in offensive action (such as combatives) as men.

Third, women are overall not as physically capable as men.

Fourth, as a "captive audience" to the whims of Congress, it is easy for the voice-from-high to demand things like "MEN AND WOMEN ARE EQUAL", at the same time, giving women a lower set of standards. This creates an institutional impression that women aren't equal unless they have help, which in turn, creates an environment where it's okay to have that impression on an individual level.

Those are just a few reasons why for some people it's a big deal.

BTW, we don't need "girls" in the military any more than we need "boys". We need men and women.