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Picture of MontgomeryScott
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Lockheed Martin's new LCS seems like the kind of ship that the Coast Guard needs more than the Navy. Thoughts?
 
Posts: 33 | Registered: Sun 05 October 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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Aude et Effice!
Picture of 1110
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You work for Gene Taylor (D-MS)? He's proposed the exact same thing. Wink

I doubt that the hull design for the LCS would work for a WHEC replacement (WMSL). For the WMEC replacement (WMSM) it might meet CG reqs, but the Navy would need to give up on the 40+ kt spd requirement which I doubt the CG would see as a need.
 
Posts: 3218 | Registered: Sat 05 May 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
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1110- Have you seen or heard anything about the progress on the WMSM? Any design decisions or movement at all?
 
Posts: 8603 | Registered: Fri 09 February 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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They are still "reevaluating" it.

LOA is still unknown, although they were calling for at least 390ft...if they used the Navy LCS hull, it would go up to 418ft.

Count seeing the following though no matter what though: stern launch/recovery system like you see on the WMSL, 57mm GWS, .50cal, flight deck.
 
Posts: 3218 | Registered: Sat 05 May 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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Wait, it would go up to 418' if they used the LCS hull? LM's LCS is only 378'. Would the USCG need to add something to the LCS hull?
 
Posts: 33 | Registered: Sun 05 October 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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Sorry I wasn't clearer.

For the LCS program the Navy had two different prototypes built: one from General Dynamics at 418ft and one from Lockheed Martin at 379ft.

You are correct, they could end up using the LM one that is 379ft.

Of course, I don't think we know yet which platform the Navy is going to choose. Wink
 
Posts: 3218 | Registered: Sat 05 May 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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quote:
LOA is still unknown, although they were calling for at least 390ft...if they used the Navy LCS hull, it would go up to 418ft.


Weren't they originally looking at about 350'?

Heck, if they get that close to 418 they may as well just build more of the WMSL's. Confused
 
Posts: 8603 | Registered: Fri 09 February 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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Yeah, something like 350ft.

Of course, it's someone else's idea other than the CG's idea to adopt the LCS in the first place. Not sure if it would happen or not. I can see on a WHEC-type platform having all that extra space and actually using it. But, on a WMEC-type plaform that you are only planning for 60 day patrols it seems like a waste to me. Not to mention with the way we are reducing crew sizes would we have enough sailors to maintain a ship that large?
 
Posts: 3218 | Registered: Sat 05 May 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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I agree. Funny how we spent lots and lots of years fulfilling all our missions on WHEC's ranging in size from 255' to 327'. Then we jumped to 378' and now we need ships that are over 400'?

Our "WMEC's" were all about 200-210'. Now they need to be 350 or more...... Confused
 
Posts: 8603 | Registered: Fri 09 February 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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Yeah, I'm with you...the ships get bigger and the crew's get smaller. Same mission, less people to do it with. Mad
 
Posts: 3218 | Registered: Sat 05 May 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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...and less ships to do it with too. Curse
 
Posts: 3218 | Registered: Sat 05 May 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
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In 1970 (I still have a Jane's from that year) the CG had about 30 WHEC's.

Soon we'll have 12 WMSL's, right? Helluva drop!

Average crew size on a WHEC then was about 160. I have no idea what it is now.
 
Posts: 8603 | Registered: Fri 09 February 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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No, actually 8 to replace 12.
 
Posts: 3218 | Registered: Sat 05 May 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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Ah, you are right. 8.......my Gawd! Curse
 
Posts: 8603 | Registered: Fri 09 February 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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I'm waiting for that golden day when all of our requirements are literally all printed out and laid out on one table, given a critical look, and some difficult decisions are made...

Fewer ships, less people; training requirements multiplying by the day, increased maintenance on aging platforms, more and more assessment visits; all the while, those of us on ships are fully accountable and are making things work. Don't get me wrong; it's all good stuff, but there are a whole lot more requirements these days. The bubble hasn't popped yet because the cuttermen are too proud to let it happen. Like many others, I'm still afloat and will continue to serve afloat, although it isn't getting easier. From what I've seen, though, afloat career paths aren't becoming any more popular. I sometimes wonder where our afloat workforce will be in 10 years; seems to me that it is diminishing.

There needs to be one archer - I use that word because an archer takes aim at the desired end state, fires each arrow with purpose, mindful of the cost and incremental benefit. There needs to be a single clearing house that consolidates all these things, equipped with the ability to say "No - we are not going to do that" and/or "we are going to do this; these things are of lesser importance, so we will not do these select things, so that we can be able to reasonably accomplish what absolutely must be done and develop or core skill sets."

Go FORCECOM! I have high hopes, although my cynical side says that I may be screaming into the wind...

Speaking of the LCS...I heard the Navy's invested big money designing a 378' ship that is well equipped for littoral operations. Actual littoral naval combat is dangerous business...seems to me that that kind of cash investment wouldn't be expendable by any means...not really what you want on the front lines. I know of a 378' ship that is well designed for littoral operations and is time proven over 40 years. Hopefully with all the money that is being spent, an equally effective asset is produced.
 
Posts: 151 | Registered: Wed 20 March 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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Picture of LTGunner
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Here’s a quick look chart I put together using available information from .mil sources:



Sources: NAVSEA PEO Ships

USCGC BERTHOLF Info Pamphlet & USCG Acquisition NSC

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LTGunner,
 
Posts: 142 | Registered: Fri 30 December 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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Picture of Mightyz90_93
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quote:
Originally posted by 1110:
No, actually 8 to replace 12.


Looking at the decision in the entirty though, you have to look at 'cutter days at sea' now vs 'cutter days at sea' once all WMSLs are up and running and all WHECs AND all WMECs are replaced by WMSMs. By most estimates and calcualtions, we will probably end up with MORE 'cutter days at sea' in the end. (Without any increase in 'crew days at sea') One of the major reasons I highlighted probably above is that by the time all of the above happens, someone who is a LTjg/LT today will be the Commandant. SOME of the crew reductions are legit issues of technology requiring less people. I can account for (and signed off on personnally) with 3 person reduction from 378 staffing to WMSL staffing.
 
Posts: 6576 | Registered: Sun 15 June 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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Picture of MontgomeryScott
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quote:
Originally posted by LTGunner:
Here’s a quick look chart I put together using available information from .mil sources:



Sources: NAVSEA PEO Ships

USCGC BERTHOLF Info Pamphlet & USCG Acquisition NSC


Hmm... All that chart needs now is a price comparison. Wink
 
Posts: 33 | Registered: Sun 05 October 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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Boat Characteristics, not the smartest thing to post on the internet. OPSEC!!
 
Posts: 219 | Registered: Thu 31 January 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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Picture of MontgomeryScott
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Why? Lockheed Martin seems to have no problem doing it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 1110,
 
Posts: 33 | Registered: Sun 05 October 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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