quote:

Originally posted by 1110:

quote:

Originally posted by M_Wood51:

Rookies (and ex Junior Officers) ought to research the bigger picture before making such stupid quips.

Yes indeed, you apparently have had years of a head start on others posting on here, namecalling those who disagree with you and generally acting like a spoiled brat M_Wood51. Just don't be suprised when someone else punctures your ballon of hot air.

Again and, again - my statement addressed a (yelling here) A STUPID MESSAGE AND NOT THE MESSENGER. The poster should have paid more attention to his logic and critical thinking classes, that is, if he ever attended and graduated from college. It is quite obvious that he fails to understand the difference between an ad hominem attack and dialectical argumentation.

To put it into simpler terms, if you are unable to cope with the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

quote:

Originally posted by M_Wood51:

quote:

Originally posted by 1110:

quote:

Originally posted by M_Wood51:

Rookies (and ex Junior Officers) ought to research the bigger picture before making such stupid quips.

Yes indeed, you apparently have had years of a head start on others posting on here, namecalling those who disagree with you and generally acting like a spoiled brat M_Wood51. Just don't be suprised when someone else punctures your ballon of hot air.

Again and, again - my statement addressed a (yelling here) A STUPID MESSAGE AND NOT THE MESSENGER. The poster should have paid more attention to his logic and critical thinking classes, that is, if he ever attended and graduated from college. It is quite obvious that he fails to understand the difference between an ad hominem attack and dialectial argumentation.

Hey, you're the one who made the "stupid" quip about Junior Officers, which is not dialectical arguementation, but rather a passive-aggressive insult.

Don't throw crap at the fan and then complain about the smell.

quote:

Originally posted by M_Wood51:
J'accuse?

quote:

M Wood, tell me what info I posted that is libel or slander?

Excuse me? Exactly where did I acccuse you personally?

I didn't.

I referred to the tone of some of the posts here that might be construed as libelous toward certain corportions, lobby firms and government officials (including civil service and military).

Why don't trolls read?

M Wood, you posted: "I sure hope that the Lockheed-Martin or Grumman legal eagles aren't aware of this board. Seems to plenty of fodder for libel lawsuits and other forms of legal action here."

Okay, tell me what posts are libel and/or slander? provide the links to the posts. If not, then stop your dimwitted scare tactics about possible lawsuits.

quote:

Hey, you're the one who made the "stupid" quip about Junior Officers, which is not dialectical arguementation, but rather a passive-aggressive insult.

1110 - Methinks that in the case of Junior Officers (LTjg and ENS but with some exceptions) the reference to then being stupid applies not specifically to one individual, but to the entire group WRT knowledge, experience, and according to several Afloat Commanding Officers, being able to formulate a lucid opinion. Take no more offense then what you should based on that. That is my opinion, based on a lot more years of experience (I would bet on this part) then you, if your profile is as it claims to be. Although as a moderator, I support Military Advantage aka Military.com's decision to allow anonymous posters, I do disagree with it - this discussion thread is a good example why - I don't know you or KeepingupsithJones; others here know me both personally and professionally. To me it is about creditability - as others say as well - if you are going to post your opinion or counter mine, at least give me the courtesy to know who I am debating with.

Nobodyaskemebut, I've answered anything you asked me here (with the exception of my name, which as you state, military.com does not require to be publically displayed in order to post). If my presence here is so bothersome and my answers to your questions not as credible as those who post under their "real" name, then why continually post questions toward me at all then?

Respectfully,
Surface Force

quote:

Okay, tell me what posts are libel and/or slander? provide the links to the posts. If not, then stop your dimwitted scare tactics about possible lawsuits.

scare tactics? Not much more of a scare tactic as "if we pull out of Iraq, the terrorists will follow us home and fight us in our own country" as our government trys to lead by appeal to emotion and fear itself.

Mine wasn't a scare tactic but a word to the wise. But if it makes you shake, then that's your problem, not mine.

If the late Senator Joseph McCarthy were still alive, he would claim, "there is, after all, a dimwitted scare tactic hiding behind every tree!"

This little discussion has run its course. Out of respect for the moderators, I will sign off and tend to my BBQ and smoking baby back ribs for this evening's supper.

Have a great Labour Day weekend and see you next time.

No M Wood, it was Senator McCarthy that used dimwitted scare tactics, not make claims about them. Again another hapless attempt to try to distance yourself from your hapless and doltish maneuvers on this board. We will ignore M Woods typical theatrics and narcissistic behavior in order to remain focused on the facts.

Again to summarize the facts of this thread:
1) Deepwater's acquisition strategy was formulated for the most part during Admiral Loy's tenure as Commandant.
2) The Deepwater contract was awarded to Lockheed within a month or so of Admiral Loy's retirement
3) Admiral Collins was Loy's chief of staff who apparently may have been picked for Commandant by Loy; Adm Loy appeared to have strong ties to Secretary Ridge to convince them to pick Collins
4) Admiral Collins has been quoted to be a strong advocate of the Deepwater acquisition strategy
5) Loy was deputy secretary for DHS, when Collins was the Commandant
6) After Loy retired from the government, he was hired by the Cohen Group which is a lobbyist firm that has been paid over $100,000 by Lockheed
7) Admiral Loy is a member of Lockheed's board of directors and has been compensated about $300,000 in Lockheed stock
8) The Washington Post asked Admiral Loy if he ever was affected by a conflict of interest in the past; Admiral Loy refused to answer the question

Amazing AJ, you have almost all of it right - except that Congress confirms the selection of Service Heads.

Do me a favor - go look at the careers of the last CNO, Marine Corps Commandant, Army Chief of Staff and Air Force Chief of Staff upon their retirements.

quote:

Originally posted by Nobodyaskedmebut:
Amazing AJ, you have almost all of it right - except that Congress confirms the selection of Service Heads.

Do me a favor - go look at the careers of the last CNO, Marine Corps Commandant, Army Chief of Staff and Air Force Chief of Staff upon their retirements.

Well NobodyAskedMeBut, how much oversight will Congress exert for the picking of the Commandant? Consider it not as a political issue as replacing General Pace of the JCOS. So essentially whoever the good ole boy network wants will essentially be marketed to the President and Congress. But I think come 2009 or 2010, we will see a female Commandant because we will have a female President

KeepingUpWithJones, what you saw above from M_Wood51 is called unwarranted extrapolation. If Wood had tried it in high school debate class he would have lost a full letter grade.

quote:

But I think come 2009 or 2010, we will see a female Commandant because we will have a female President

God help us all if that mistake were to happen. Shw may have bought a Senate seat but her integrity is even worse then her husbands.

A new dimension for 1101 - High School Debate Teacher...interesting.

NobodyAskedMeBut, good point on Hilary. I think of drug running money in Arkansas, White water, Ron Brown's mysterious death and illegal campaign contributions, etc.

By the way, check this recent news about Lockheed not recently winning a big FAA contract:

"Lockheed, which reported $39.6 billion in revenue last year, has been criticized for how it has handled taking over the FAA's flight service stations, which provide information to pilots about weather and flight plans. The FAA fined Lockheed $3 million several months ago for the way the company has handled aspects of the takeover, officials have said."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...l?hpid=moreheadlines

quote:

Originally posted by M_Wood51:
Naw, I'm talking about some of the defamation seen on these forums. Some of these discussions might be setting the Military Advantage Corporation and its parent company, Monster Boards INC up for some nasty lawsuits, either intentionally or unintentionally.

And just remember, just because one keeps his or her profile anonymous, moderators and Military Advantage (Military.com) system administrators have the tools to trace the source of any posts using IP numbers regardless of whether one us using a proxie server or is stupid enough to be posting directly into the Military.com forum servers with such bile. And don't think for one moment that the ISPs and server farms won't help in the trace effort. Amazing what a company will do with a court order.

You can run but you can't hide. The prudent person watches what he or she says on any Internet forum. It just might come back to bite you on the butt.

Mark, stop it.. You giving away all the secrets.. Your just going to push people further underground.. However, on a counter point.. not much traceroutes can do if the user is spoofing his/her ip/mac address off someone's open wi-fi connection. I doubt the FBI, NSA or those little green men deap under some moutain will get involved with some poster saying a former CG adm may have been or is on the take. They are too busy polishing up their resumes for when our current administration leave's the belt way.. It can't come soon enough.

tc1uscg, Yes, there are IP masking techniques that are easy to employ. Be very careful when criticizing those high level career bureaucrats that are brushing up their resumes. Liberals are friends with career bureaucrats, and M Wood is a liberal.

A. Jones

Yep, yep, yep..........the beat goes on. Anyone remember a 2-star who used USCG aircraft to go to a favorite hunting lodge and then filed travel claims on the trip? He was offered a one-star retirement and he took it along with a directorship at a shipbuilder who, coincidently, built lots of things for the USCG. He who has the gold makes the rules...... Sad but true and yet worthy of keeping out there for all to see. If good men do nothing, evil will prevail. And the NSC still won't keep up with a battle group.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave1960:
Yep, yep, yep..........the beat goes on. Anyone remember a 2-star who used USCG aircraft to go to a favorite hunting lodge and then filed travel claims on the trip? He was offered a one-star retirement and he took it along with a directorship at a shipbuilder who, coincidently, built lots of things for the USCG. He who has the gold makes the rules...... Sad but true and yet worthy of keeping out there for all to see. If good men do nothing, evil will prevail. And the NSC still won't keep up with a battle group.

Well Dave it hasn't changed much at all since the 2 star Admiral, except that the retired powers to be are savvy enough to disguise their efforts enough to not warrant criminal charges or media attention corruption is even more rampant because the powers to be have figured out how to make it less blatant or conspicuous

quote:

Originally posted by KeepingUpWithJones:
Ben, good point. I bring up these points:
-Admiral Loy is on Lockheeds board of directors
-Admiral Loy has been compensated about $300,000 in Lockheed stock for his membership on the board

I didn't bring up opinions like Admiral Loy handpicked Admiral Collins so he could control him while serving as Deputy of DHS, especially in regards to Deepwater program management.

....are you accusing a CG Officer of a crime? If so, step up and do it instead of *****-footing around. Otherwise this whole thread is a non-issue.

am pretty sick of ATG's antics and accusations on here....

quote:

Originally posted by SacraficialMetal:

quote:

Originally posted by KeepingUpWithJones:
Ben, good point. I bring up these points:
-Admiral Loy is on Lockheeds board of directors
-Admiral Loy has been compensated about $300,000 in Lockheed stock for his membership on the board

I didn't bring up opinions like Admiral Loy handpicked Admiral Collins so he could control him while serving as Deputy of DHS, especially in regards to Deepwater program management.

....are you accusing a CG Officer of a crime? If so, step up and do it instead of *****-footing around. Otherwise this whole thread is a non-issue.

am pretty sick of ATG's antics and accusations on here....

still waiting jones, the question is are you accusing a senior military officer of a crime or wrongdoing?

quote:

Originally posted by SacraficialMetal:

quote:

Originally posted by SacraficialMetal:

quote:

Originally posted by KeepingUpWithJones:
Ben, good point. I bring up these points:
-Admiral Loy is on Lockheeds board of directors
-Admiral Loy has been compensated about $300,000 in Lockheed stock for his membership on the board

I didn't bring up opinions like Admiral Loy handpicked Admiral Collins so he could control him while serving as Deputy of DHS, especially in regards to Deepwater program management.

....are you accusing a CG Officer of a crime? If so, step up and do it instead of *****-footing around. Otherwise this whole thread is a non-issue.

am pretty sick of ATG's antics and accusations on here....

still waiting jones, the question is are you accusing a senior military officer of a crime or wrongdoing?

*************************

No Sac Metal, I am saying the PUBLIC facts. Now Tell me what FACTS below you disagree with? Where did I accuse Loy as being a criminal? Did I say he was a criminal?

Even Tim Hecht agrees with the FACTS except he thinks that Congress had more of a part than Loy in getting Collins selected as Commandant.

PUBLIC FACTS about ADM Loy that are :

Again to summarize the facts of this thread:
1) Deepwater's acquisition strategy was formulated for the most part during Admiral Loy's tenure as Commandant.
2) The Deepwater contract was awarded to Lockheed within a month or so of Admiral Loy's retirement
3) Admiral Collins was Loy's chief of staff who apparently COULD HAVE BEEN HAND-PICKED for Commandant by Loy; Adm Loy appeared to have strong ties to Secretary Ridge to convince them to pick Collins
4) Admiral Collins has been quoted to be a strong advocate of the Deepwater acquisition strategy
5) Loy was deputy secretary for DHS, when Collins was the Commandant
6) After Loy retired from the government, he was hired by the Cohen Group which is a lobbyist firm that has been paid over $100,000 by Lockheed
7) Admiral Loy is a member of Lockheed's board of directors and has been compensated about $300,000 in Lockheed stock
8) The Washington Post asked Admiral Loy if he ever was affected by a conflict of interest in the past; Admiral Loy refused to answer the question

Again, I do not work for a contractor that has any ties to Deepwater, or would have any interest in Deepwater work.

I am a taxpayer who is interested in DOD and DHS programs.

I never publicly stated Admiral Loy is a criminal or stole money.

I am passing info so it is TRANSPARENT and that the good Coast Guard folks out there know who are the major players in regards to Deepwater.