Should 6th graders be allowed to wear stuff like this? What about Pro-abortion shirts? Do either belong in school?

quote:

Originally posted by jrnh5150:
Should 6th graders be allowed to wear stuff like this? What about Pro-abortion shirts? Do either belong in school?

If they espouse abortion, then why not have anti abortion thoughts, debate and T-shirts?
What would someone be afraid of? If one is forbidden, then the other should be too...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Based on the article the school was in the wrong. With no dress code, the t-shirts would have had to been causing a disruption among the other students or gruesomely graphic to be banned. There is no indication of either in the article.
Mom is also wrong. Rather than try to work this out with the school she went straight to a lawsuit. She went straight for the victim card.

Gotta agree - the school was out of line. I'm personally of the opinion that this is a case of Mommy expressing HER opinion by picking her son's shirts...but that's not provable, and it isn't the school's place to decide it. And had the school not jumped straight to censorship, she wouldn't have been able to file suit - which, as Thorin points out, was probably her intention all along.

The district is claiming that the shirts are disruptive - do they have any evidence of any disruption apart from teachers interrupting class to make him turn his shirt inside out?

Abortion isn't an issue that ought to be presented in the 6th Grade. Debate on abortion has no legitimate basis in elementary and high school education of our chidren (IMHO).

What "politically-correct" decision that will be finally reached is anyone's guess. But, guidance on Abortion should be limited to Parents and Guardians.

From A Proud Vietnam Veteran

quote:

Originally posted by WesLemmon:
Abortion isn't an issue that ought to be presented in the 6th Grade. Debate on abortion has no legitimate basis in elementary and high school education of our chidren (IMHO).

What "politically-correct" decision that will be finally reached is anyone's guess. But, guidance on Abortion should be limited to Parents and Guardians.

From A Proud Vietnam Veteran

Well now ... if we are presenting sex education in our schools, abortions are one of the possible consequences of sex. Should it be shoved under the rug with the used condoms?

I doubt there will be a "PC" decision but I do expect a Constitutionally based one.

Personally, I find it amazing that the school doesn't have a flipping dress code.

We disagree! Abortion is not a legitimate topic for sex education and it isn't included in most sex education classes.

From A Proud Vietnam Veteran

quote:

Originally posted by WesLemmon:
Abortion isn't an issue that ought to be presented in the 6th Grade. Debate on abortion has no legitimate basis in elementary and high school education of our chidren (IMHO).

Sure. But then you're drawing a line between free speech permissible to a 12-year-old and speech that isn't. If you start censoring on that sort of basis, you have to decide which issues are or are not appropriate...and then re-decide for each age. For instance, this 6th-grader attends a MIDDLE school, therefore the other students probably range up to 8th or 9th grade. It's quite possible that some of his fellow students (in the upper grades) have already HAD abortions. If not, then by the time they get into high school. That would seem to make the debate very relevant to them. So how old do they have to be to discuss it?

I think the mother is a fool for turning her son into a political poster and a tool to instigate a lawsuit for publicity. I think it will harm him in the long run. But I don't see anyplace to draw that censorship line to exclude his t-shirt, but allow all other legitimate free speech.

quote:

Originally posted by WesLemmon:
We disagree! Abortion is not a legitimate topic for sex education and it isn't included in most sex education classes.

From A Proud Vietnam Veteran

That's fine. Not the first time I've disagreed with you or others. I'm in agreement with BobApril above ... specifically ...

quote:

I think the mother is a fool for turning her son into a political poster and a tool to instigate a lawsuit for publicity. I think it will harm him in the long run. But I don't see anyplace to draw that censorship line to exclude his t-shirt, but allow all other legitimate free speech.

Isn' this the sort of things that "School Boards, and parents" are already charged with doing? As a successful parent of three, I would not have allowed the teacher of the 6th Grade to instruct my children on the merits of abortion.

Neither, would I've allowed "sex" to be advocated based on individual choice rather than a biological determination. Guess I'm Just One of the "Out-of-touch" Generation. (And, I'm damm happy about that!)

From A Proud Vietnam Veteran

quote:

If you start censoring on that sort of basis, you have to decide which issues are or are not appropriate...and then re-decide for each age.

Fact is, he was told not to wear the shirts that are offensive, same as me wearing a Slayer shirt to school and being told the same thing. He persisted and his mother KNEW that he was told not to wear them and allowed him to go to school wearing them anyway. He hasn't even been disciplined by the school other than to say "Now Timmy, you can't wear that to school, please either change or turn the shirt inside out."

And since when do 12 year olds have "freedom of speech" that can be used against the school? They're minors. And the only person who's getting huffy about it is the single mom of 3...

quote:

Originally posted by Jade_Gate:

quote:

Originally posted by WesLemmon:
Abortion isn't an issue that ought to be presented in the 6th Grade. Debate on abortion has no legitimate basis in elementary and high school education of our chidren (IMHO).

What "politically-correct" decision that will be finally reached is anyone's guess. But, guidance on Abortion should be limited to Parents and Guardians.

From A Proud Vietnam Veteran

Well now ... if we are presenting sex education in our schools, abortions are one of the possible consequences of sex. Should it be shoved under the rug with the used condoms?

I doubt there will be a "PC" decision but I do expect a Constitutionally based one.

Personally, I find it amazing that the school doesn't have a flipping dress code.

Constitutional? You mean like Roe V. Wade?

quote:

Originally posted by Jade_Gate:
Personally, I find it amazing that the school doesn't have a flipping dress code.

But they do... all public schools K-12 have dress codes... in fact it even said in the article that that was the reason he was asked to change his shirt... the message was deemed "offensive" which dress code prohibits.

quote:

Originally posted by BobApril:
Gotta agree - the school was out of line. I'm personally of the opinion that this is a case of Mommy expressing HER opinion by picking her son's shirts...but that's not provable, and it isn't the school's place to decide it. And had the school not jumped straight to censorship, she wouldn't have been able to file suit - which, as Thorin points out, was probably her intention all along.

The district is claiming that the shirts are disruptive - do they have any evidence of any disruption apart from teachers interrupting class to make him turn his shirt inside out?

And yet another case of the SQUEAKY WHEEL gets the grease!

As for the dress code - it's understood, but since it's not in writing - there's the loophole for legal action.

As more than one school administrator has said, and also backed up by the courts, many rights are surrendered at the school boundary. As can be seen by the reaction of both the parent and school representatives, this is a disruptive force and has no place at that grade level. If it was at a college, which would be another matter.

It takes away the schools ability to handle the kids.

Schools are for learning not for posting political statements or personal venues. What line is to be drawn?

quote:

Originally posted by armywifefigueroa:

quote:

Originally posted by Jade_Gate:
Personally, I find it amazing that the school doesn't have a flipping dress code.

But they do... all public schools K-12 have dress codes... in fact it even said in the article that that was the reason he was asked to change his shirt... the message was deemed "offensive" which dress code prohibits.

My oversight ... you are correct. That means the issue comes down to whether his message is really offensive. I'm hard pressed to see how it is. Some would find a "Gay Pride" shirt offensive ... very subjective. Will be interesting to see what the judge has to say.

Schools are for learning not for posting political statements or personal venues.

Uniforms may be coming yet.

quote:

Originally posted by Jade_Gate:

quote:

Originally posted by armywifefigueroa:

quote:

Originally posted by Jade_Gate:
Personally, I find it amazing that the school doesn't have a flipping dress code.

But they do... all public schools K-12 have dress codes... in fact it even said in the article that that was the reason he was asked to change his shirt... the message was deemed "offensive" which dress code prohibits.

My oversight ... you are correct. That means the issue comes down to whether his message is really offensive. I'm hard pressed to see how it is. Some would find a "Gay Pride" shirt offensive ... very subjective. Will be interesting to see what the judge has to say.

Absolutely. Being only 12... I doubt many of them truly know what abortion is, how it's done, etc etc... as far as other students being offended, I don't see how, but the teachers I can see. Personally, Pro-life or not, I wouldn't let my 12 year old out of the house with a shirt that reads "Growing, Growing, Gone" with a picture of an unborn fetus on it... I find that rather disrespectful.

quote:

Originally posted by klassylady25:

quote:

Originally posted by BobApril:
Gotta agree - the school was out of line. I'm personally of the opinion that this is a case of Mommy expressing HER opinion by picking her son's shirts...but that's not provable, and it isn't the school's place to decide it. And had the school not jumped straight to censorship, she wouldn't have been able to file suit - which, as Thorin points out, was probably her intention all along.

The district is claiming that the shirts are disruptive - do they have any evidence of any disruption apart from teachers interrupting class to make him turn his shirt inside out?

And yet another case of the SQUEAKY WHEEL gets the grease!

As for the dress code - it's understood, but since it's not in writing - there's the loophole for legal action.

Don't know about this school in particular, but at the beginning of each year, a student handbook was handed out that specifically laid out dress code. There was a sheet in the back that had to be signed by both the student and the parent(s) and returned to the principal. As far as I know, all schools have a student handbook with a written dress code that is enforced.

This is another case of the parent being upset that the school told her son "No"... kind of like the mom in Texas that sued the school for child abuse after the principal gave her kid the option of pops or suspension... he picked pops, mom got mad, and the suit was thrown out.