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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events In the News Atheists Want New DoD Rules on Prayer|
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Yes, it is being forced. If something similar happened to you, you would be screaming. And, the quarterdeck was NOT the norm, it was PUNISHMENT for not going to services. The guy that got thrashed lasted about 2 Sundays, then started going to services. What was more important to me? Well, in 1983, as an 18 year old recruit, graduating boot camp was my priority, not taking a stand on my religious beliefs or disbeliefs. And, you can lol and doubt getting smoked for the whole service all you want, but, I talked to the guy, and I was there. Your claim about not minding a Satanist service if you were from that culture is crap. I'm from a culture, here, that is predominantly Christian, and I have a big problem with the idea of having to attend a service.
Again, as long as it's not you, you belittle it and say we should suck it up. Nice.
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I agree, That is the case and has been for some time. |
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People should have freedom from religion. Conning a bunch of people into believing they will go to heaven if they kill the enemy is crap. Religion is the worst invention humans ever came up with. The unscrupulous use it to further any agenda they might have. Without religion or ideology there would be no wars.
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Exactly. Atheism is NOT a religion. It is either one that is implicitly without a belief in gods, or one that affirms that gods do not exist. As it is a belief system, based on a disbelief in gods, it is, therefore, a topically religious belief (by lack there-of) and qualifies as a religious freedom. And, protected by the US Constitution. Whys don't atheists fight or their right to not be at functions? We are. But, do you really think that the US Military is going to excuse troops from functions that have prayer? No. And, if they did, they would be required to be somewhere/do something distasteful, while the zealots are rewarded at a function, whether it be a promotion ceremony, or a function more social in nature. If you deny this, then you are just fooling yourself. How about a compromise? For those troops that want prayer at an event, wait until it's over, then have a second formation so that they can pray, while the others leave. Just don't make me stand there and be subjected to religious propoganda with no choice in the matter. Atheist are not trying to remove other's rights, as they have done to us. We just don't want to be subjected to it. It is offensive, and we have the right to be offended. We also have the right NOT to attend a function that includes prayer. |
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Ten day suspension for violation of TOS 6ii. 05 Feb Gypsysnipe Member |
Agree.
Pffft. Yeah, right.  |
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"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson
"Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." - Thomas Jefferson Active Duty Atheist sends. |
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Those complaining about prayers and use of religious services in military or civilian life are nothing but TROUBLE MAKING RABBLE ROUSING ANTI-CONSTITUTIONALISTS. The Constitution guarantees that relgious beliefs or services are not to prescribed by the government and the government has no right to establish a religion or a non-religion. It guarantees that any religious belief or non-belief will be respected by the Government and it will make NO LAWS governing such, including the restriction of such. Unless of course that religion has to to do murder or restriction of personal beliefs. Those of non-religious gruops have to put up with those who do believe just as believers have to put up with the non-believers and that is the law. Anything else is a direct violation of the Constitution. Thereby those wishing to restrict believers and non-believers are ANTI-CONSTITUITONALIST AND THERE BY NOT TRUE CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. In the military they are guilty of violation of their oathes of enlistment or commissioning. It is a violation of constitutional law and should be treated as so, to the point they violators, of either side, should be prosecuted as such, and dishonorably discharged or decommissioned. END OF STORY.....AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT LEAVE THIS NATION AND GO SOMEWHERE WHERE YOUR RELIGIOUS OR NON-RELIGIOUS BELIEFS ARE DECIDED BY THE DAMNED GOVERNMENT IN POWER NOT BY A CONSTITUTIONAL DECREE OF FREEDOM OF WORSHIP OR NON-WORSHIP. These a-holes are just trouble makers and have no real belief in the precepts of what this nation's laws are all about and probably don't give a dam*** about even themselves, much less anyone else. And I don't care what their dam*$# rank is, even if it is the President him/herself. I am sick and tired of these psuedo-commie B******s attempting to use the Constitution and the courts to destroy this Nation's laws and precepts from within. They should be deported to the nation of their choice as undesirable, failed citizens, and as those who can not be trusted to honor even their own oathes of office, which in reality, such oathes are statements of a LIAR, A BALD FACED LIAR.
As to those believing that they are passed over for rank, the truth is probably more to the point that they are NOT TRUSTWORTHY by thier own actions, to be promoted to a rank of leadership or authority over the lives of others. I nkow I sure had no rwespect for senior NCO'S that were liars when I was on active duty and did everything I could to stay away from such persons. A LIAR CAN AND WILL GET YOU KILLED IN COMBAT OR IN DANGEROUS JOBS OUTSIDE OF ACTUAL COMBAT. Truth, real truthfulness, is a prerequisite for good leadership. That is exactly why the United States House and Senate have lower ratings from the people than even our sworn enemies. This message has been edited. Last edited by: DEANEGILMOUR, |
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Ok, don't get upset on me. I'm not trying to offend your position; I apologize if it seems that way. My point is this, we don't do everything we want to do all the time. Religious people have to listen to atheists in various settings. For example, Christian college students have to listen to atheist professors and so on so we can play that game all day and night. Again, my main point is that these atheist agenda pushers aren't being noble and fighting for your rights. If they were then, as I previously said, they would make way avenues of escape, but on both ends. Do you agree with censorship because this is what our society is moving toward. The atheist who argues that the religious person is intolerant is becoming intolerant himself. Just read some Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Chris Hitchens, Dannett, and others... As far as your atheist worldview, that's great. Nobody should make you attend a religious service against your will, but likewise, no one should make me learn under an atheist professor who pushes his agenda on Christian students. The church provides worship, but they don't push it on you. If it does, then find another church. The classroom is predominately liberal and anti-god. Those two kind of go together. I just don't see why we can't talk about it without one person taking offense. |
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There is no need for the military to do anything about religion. If you want to have religion fine, if you don't , then leave the religious persons alone and go about your business. I will say this though about you so called non beleivers. In Vietnam, the atheists, when in battle cried out for help from God as well as did the religious troops. So use your own judgement. Good luck. Aho
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And have we forgotten that powerful Friend? Or do we imagine that we no longer need His assistance? I have lived, sir, a long time and the longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured, sir, in the sacred writings that 'except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it.' I firmly believe this and I also believe that without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel. -Ben Franklin |
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Yes, but you make a choice to be in that college class. If you are ordered by the chain of command in the military to be at a function that holds prayer, that is a different matter.
It's a very volatile subject. It starts wars. Of course people are going to get upset.
I've been in combat. I didn't scream for any god. Cliches are just that, cliches. And, DEANGILMOUR, your whole rant is so self contradicting, I barely know where to start. If you are such a Constitutionalist, why did you make this statement? "Those complaining about prayers and use of religious services in military or civilian life are nothing but TROUBLE MAKING RABBLE ROUSING ANTI-CONSTITUTIONALISTS." Free speech is another Constitutional right. You state that "they should be deported to the nation of their choice as undesirable, failed citizens...". Wow. Take a deep breath, and take a pill. |
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Ten day suspension for violation of TOS 6ii. 05 Feb Gypsysnipe Member |
We're all atheists. Some of us just go one god further.
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eeecchhhh stop there. So do you agree with leading atheists out there? You must not. Most leading atheists would say that religion is a bane to society. But you said atheism is a religion, right? You are totally trying to twist the constitution to fit your worldview. Being an atheist doesn't inhibit you from any freedom's. You're upset because you had to sit through a few prayers. Do you complain about sitting through a horrendous song at a play? Or seeing fat guys at the beach? There is a fundamentally bigger issue here. We know why the founding fathers put these ammendmants in the constitution, because of their religious persecution. Again, it is the ardent atheist (atheists pushing agenda's) that is trying to take religious freedom from people. "you can't pray here, you can't pray there, you can't pray out loud at school, you can't say God in the pledge, etc." You're just upset because you have to sit through a short prayer from time to time. What religious person in political power ever told you you couldn't believe in the absense of something (i.e. atheism) in front of others? It's ironically many gov. officials are trying to do this to those professing religion - which is a violation of the constitution.
I understand you are an atheist, but you are in a country founded under christian principles. You can't get around it. You act like you're getting persecuted, like you're in Red China or something. Were all the Foudning Father's Christians, no, but many were. Why do you think our great nation is slowly going down the tubes morally speaking? I'm sure we'd both agree against violent religions like Islam and other wacky cults out there. |
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wtf seriously ppl just leave off the military isnt becoming a fundamentalist christain dictatorship..ok it is a dictatorship but seriously.
you annoying the F&&k out of ppl just stop already...i mean my god am i gonna be thrown in jail for telling my kids to pray before bed christ........and im not even a good christain |
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And you make the choice to be in the military. Department of Education vs. the Department of Defense. Now if the professor made sincere comments from time to time to support his atheist belief system, then I wouldn't care. Afterall, we all have a worldview. But if at the same time I want to set a bible on my desk or ask a question making sincere comments to support my Christain belief than he should give me the same respect. If we disagree then we should be able to discuss it philosophically, scientifically, existentially, and so on. If my belief in God is so silly, then it should be easy for him to do, right? Ardent defenders of a position should be able to defend it, and furthermore know why it is a more logical position than the other. Moreover, If you had a chance to go to a chaplain and discuss the 250 reasons why you think God is on the same plane as the buggy monster, then you should have that right. I just think that there are times or settings in which we don't agree with everything - for you and me both. If you prayed to the toothferry everyday in front of a group I was in, I wouldn't care since I know it doesn't exist. I would rather beleive you are silly and uninformed. Why can't you do that for my God, since you think I am praying to a nonexistent, imaginary being?
Very true. I don't think we've been too unreasonable, I just thought you were getting a little heated earlier. Hard to tell sometimes through electronic messages. I'd love for us to lay down our arguments for our atheist/theistic positions sometime...
I had a hard time reading it so didn't really take the time needed  |
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You jump to condemn other religions, here. Very intolerant on your part. Consistent with your previous arguments. If you are not Christian, you are wrong... |
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Agree to disagree. It's that simple. No reason to go back and forth vigorously trying to make your point known. If you don't believe in God, fine. If you do, okay. Move on and accept the fact that your belief may not be the ONLY (right) belief in this world.
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Experienced Member |
How can an atheist be afraid of something he doesn't believe in? And, Would you share a foxhole with him?
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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events In the News Atheists Want New DoD Rules on Prayer
