RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,170509,00.html

If we lower ourselves to the level of the terrorists by using "illegal" and "unethical" means of interrogation; we've lost not only the moral high ground, but have screwed anyone of our forces who is captured by the enemy!

Looks like the tide's going out. Sometimes when it does, the sunlight hits all those little sea-critters left on the beach and the smell can get pretty bad. Nothing like sunlight to sanitize.

i hear ya Chaplain, some in the WH just don't care about what will happen to our troops when captured.....as you might have guessed by now..NOT to many in the WH have been in war...

Would someone tell me what ever happened to the U.S.A. I grew up in, I proudly served and shed my blood for? We are an example to the world of everything we should not be. Both God and nature
will have the final say. No wonder everyone seems to hate us.

I guess we could ask all the American soilders that have been captured by the terrorists how they were treated during questioning. Oh wait that is right....THEY WERE ALL KILLED. Why dont these activists go try to tell the bad guies how to treat captives. The captives we have now are treated and fed better then most people in the USA now.

I'm very pleased to see these people step forward and append their names to a document which reaffirms the obligation of this country to remember always that if you want to be called the good guy you can't act like a thug.

Nothing harms our country's interests more than the coercive and cruel methods endorsed by this Administration. When one reads interviews of captured insurgents and AQ and Taliban members they often talk about their decision to join the fight against us as having been motivated by the stories of our cruel treatment of prisoners and the abuses at Abu Ghraib. These policies have done incalculable harm not only to our reputation in the world, but to the prospect of expecting any sort of decent treatment of our military personnel.

Despite all the evidence that our loutish behavior has in fact swelled the ranks of those arrayed against us we still see Tony Fratto, the mouthpiece for the Administration, claiming that we should be able to treat some suspects badly, and moreover restating the ridiculous and unsubstantiated claim that doing so has prevented attacks. We always hear this claim, but when documentation is demanded it is never provided. It's sickening, too, to hear a representative of our government claim that the ends justify the means. When I was growing up in the 60s I often heard that the Communists and Fascists were evil because they believed that the ends justified the means, whereas we were better than that and believed in individual rights and justice through the fair and equal application of the laws. How far we have fallen in this misnamed war on terror.

With all due respect, Chaplain, I think if any Americans operate at the same level as the terrorists of Gitmo, they deserve like treatment at a minimum. Don't try to compare terrorists to all Americans or American soldiers and expect equal treatment when captured.
Please give an example of any captured American that has had it as good as the terrorists of Gitmo, in any war ever. I doubt anything done differently at Gitmo will result in better treatment of any captured Americans.
This is all just another political hit piece.

quote:

Originally posted by strmvet:
I guess we could ask all the American soilders that have been captured by the terrorists how they were treated during questioning. Oh wait that is right....THEY WERE ALL KILLED. Why dont these activists go try to tell the bad guies how to treat captives. The captives we have now are treated and fed better then most people in the USA now.

So, what you seem to imply is that we torture as payback rather than to extract actionable intelligence. This is the battle cry I keep hearing form the far-right. We're justified in barbaric acts because they commit barbaric acts. Ok, now that we’re loosing our moral authority and sinking to the level of totalitarian extreemists, how exactly do we “spread democracy?” At the point of a bayonet?

quote:

Originally posted by catahoulagill:
With all due respect, Chaplain, I think if any Americans operate at the same level as the terrorists of Gitmo, they deserve like treatment at a minimum. Don't try to compare terrorists to all Americans or American soldiers and expect equal treatment when captured.
Please give an example of any captured American that has had it as good as the terrorists of Gitmo, in any war ever. I doubt anything done differently at Gitmo will result in better treatment of any captured Americans.
This is all just another political hit piece.

Have you managed to determine that all the captors at Gitmo are terrorists? Funny, the government hasn't even been able to establish that yet. They are in many cases "suspected of", not convicted of being "enemy combatants" So, if by chance we are holding innocents along with terrorists, is that justice, or just an expedient way to cover-up an embarrassing screw-up?

quote:

Originally posted by ChaplainMMoore:
RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,170509,00.html

If we lower ourselves to the level of the terrorists by using "illegal" and "unethical" means of interrogation; we've lost not only the moral high ground, but have screwed anyone of our forces who is captured by the enemy!

Given what has happened to some of our guys that were captured in Iraq, they are already screwed.

Is this the same George Schultz that was Reagan Secretary of State. Remember the President had enough leaks "In 1985, saying he was "up to my keister in leaks." When the cheif executive floated the idea of having his cabinet and employee's given a lie detector test Mr. Schultz threatened to resign, something to do about being bullied by the boss. Or, just maybe guilty as charged of pulling the rug out from under the oval office. Some say that much of the problems inherited today came from his inability of facing the problems and coming up with any kind of solutions. Hizbullah comes to mind. Sure glad he's still in good form. A credit that should more recognition is his reputation of creating the global fascist agenda. Yes, George it's time list the sins of others, it make you so damn pure.

quote:

Originally posted by 67NOV:

quote:

Originally posted by ChaplainMMoore:
RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,170509,00.html

If we lower ourselves to the level of the terrorists by using "illegal" and "unethical" means of interrogation; we've lost not only the moral high ground, but have screwed anyone of our forces who is captured by the enemy!

Given what has happened to some of our guys that were captured in Iraq, they are already screwed.

Ok, if we're going to have a national policy of pay-back, let's go ahead and pull their skin off. But let's not lie ourselves or the rest of the world by claiming we're honestly trying to extract actionable intellegence. No one likes a bully but everyone hates a liar.

quote:

Originally posted by Ol_Doc:

quote:

Originally posted by catahoulagill:
With all due respect, Chaplain, I think if any Americans operate at the same level as the terrorists of Gitmo, they deserve like treatment at a minimum. Don't try to compare terrorists to all Americans or American soldiers and expect equal treatment when captured.
Please give an example of any captured American that has had it as good as the terrorists of Gitmo, in any war ever. I doubt anything done differently at Gitmo will result in better treatment of any captured Americans.
This is all just another political hit piece.

Have you managed to determine that all the captors at Gitmo are terrorists? Funny, the government hasn't even been able to establish that yet. They are in many cases "suspected of", not convicted of being "enemy combatants" So, if by chance we are holding innocents along with terrorists, is that justice, or just an expedient way to cover-up an embarrassing screw-up?

"Terrorists of Gitmo" refers to just that. Not everyone being held may be a "terrorists". I just as soon keep them all there until hostilities cease. Hard luck for them? Maybe. Better hard luck for them than the soldiers.

The whole idea behind interrogations is to break down resistance. Beating a person and otherwise inflicting pain only increases resistance and when it becomes too much, the interrogatee only says what he thinks the interrogator wants to hear.

Torture doesn't work.

I oppose these techniques not because of any ethical or moral dilemma; I oppose them because they do not result in reliable, actionable intelligence that is worth risking the lives of US soldiers.