quote:

Originally posted by badmac933:

quote:

Originally posted by Duster6:
Do you really think KBR or the VP give a rats as# if some soldiers or Marines get sick or die?

That was a pretty ignorant thing to say, Duster.

Was it? I am willing to bet that the answer will be in the negative...

quote:

Originally posted by ArtMarsh:
I am willing to bet that the answer will be in the negative...

"...in the negative"?

We've never fought a sustained conflict of this length with an all volunteer force. We use civilians partly because young Americans these days have better things to do with all the opportunities people like all you veterans have provided them.
Could you imagine the public outcry at the troop levels that would be required in-country if the military assumed KBR's responsibilities?
By using KBR, the military can use, I'm guessing, about two thirds less troops required to do the mission without them.

That said, I just want to say I'm pretty much in awe of veterans like this. I wish this topic had been about Tank Destroyers.

------------------------------------------------
During World War II in the European Theater where I served, we never had a water problem. Water supplied to my outfit came generally in 5 gallon jerrycans from which we filled canteens. Since there might have been some doubt about the potability of the water source, I'm certain that the water was purified before we received it.

In any event, I have no recollection of water-borne disease being transmitted to us GIs and that was some 64 years ago.

---fnewt

Thanks for being the greatest generation Sarge.

the only thing to do is to ______ their a sses off...

Glad I got out of there when I did

Ok supply dudes, if you havn't ordered these little gem here is the NSN for KIT, WATER PURIFICATION,EMERGENCY 6850-01-374-9921. The kit comes with 1 treatment bag, 30 tablets, and 3 filters. Now please! Do not think I am making light of this! I bet there isn't a CO who wouldn't sign this request a 999/01 pri. Put three eyedroppers of plain bleach in a 1 qt canteen and wait 10 mins, 3 mess kit spoons of bleach in a 5 gal can and wait 10 mins. Rinse the cap and threads too.

"a contractor once owned by Vice President Dick Cheney's former company."

once owned? former company?

Why is this even part of the story?

Useless lazy contractor, we get it. Cheney connection? Give me a break.

Cheney still owns stock options and received deferred compensation through 2004.

quote:

Originally posted by Broadsword777:
"a contractor once owned by Vice President Dick Cheney's former company."

once owned? former company?

Why is this even part of the story?

Useless lazy contractor, we get it. Cheney connection? Give me a break.

You may find it uncomfortable but it's true.

Should they have said he NEVER Owned the Company, that he's not connected?

The Press should put out the facts (as they know them) and those facts are typically: absorbed, believed, discounted, distorted, refuted, deflected, RESEARCHED, admired, acknowledged... by the readers.

its Bushes fault

holy shite- its NOT?

oh, Cheneys fault...close enough....

Yep, I am sure cheny flies over there and ORDERS them to make bad water. Way cheaper and no backlashes or news storeis would ever come from something like that.


God I hate the media.

quote:

Originally posted by smartone3:

quote:

Originally posted by Holynotsomuch:
RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,163628,00.html

Yeah, but I am sure the Iraqi's have spent our money on the best water money can buy...

Great

Anyone who wanted this war should deal with the consequences. This isn't the Ritz. You guys should be lucky your actually getting water.

Are you High, or going thru withdrawal?

quote:

Originally posted by godawgz:

quote:

Originally posted by smartone3:

quote:

Originally posted by Holynotsomuch:
RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,163628,00.html

Yeah, but I am sure the Iraqi's have spent our money on the best water money can buy...

Great

Anyone who wanted this war should deal with the consequences. This isn't the Ritz. You guys should be lucky your actually getting water.

Are you High, or going thru withdrawal?

Thank you for saying what I was thinking

Sadly, this situation has been going on ever since KBR and others set foot in Iraq and Afghanistan to support our troops. The real fallacy is...the all volunteer military. The struggle to place weapons in the hands of our uniformed people is the problem when you don't have enough men (and women). The only thing they can do is strip away support MOS' and fill the void with civilian support. And so far, it has been a disaster doing so.

The deal is simple, return to a draft. The draft opens up to the military to a much larger proportion of the population for military service. It would also allow the services to be more selective about who gets to wear a uniform. Right now, the standards are so low for enlisting, it is no wonder we see such things as puppy tossing, rape, theft and even murder.

But for all you who believe in privatizing war, I'm sure you will disagree? Bottom line, the relevant evidence and facts do not support the theory of an all volunteer military being capable of sustaining itself. Sooner or later, our government, the military and citizens will have to recognize this simple fact; it is the duty of all citizens to be subject to service in our military to protect what we have. This 1% of our population doing the job cannot last and the sooner we recognize this simple fact, the better off this Nation will be.

My guess is, if uniformed members of the military produced such results like the ones we have seen from the KBR's of the world, some heads would have rolled, maybe even some brig time for the slackers. Disease can ruin an army, clean water is a must as the consequences can be dire. In all likelihood, if we had military support as we used to, these types of events would probably never occur. Some heads should roll for this insult and assault on the members of our Armed Forces but in all probability nothing will happen...as usual.

S/F Gordon

quote:

Originally posted by SheepdogA39:
We've never fought a sustained conflict of this length with an all volunteer force. We use civilians partly because young Americans these days have better things to do with all the opportunities people like all you veterans have provided them.
Could you imagine the public outcry at the troop levels that would be required in-country if the military assumed KBR's responsibilities?
By using KBR, the military can use, I'm guessing, about two thirds less troops required to do the mission without them.

That would be a good guess, but not quite accurate. This is about Rumsfeld's plan to outsource combat service support. I'm half surprised we still have field medics. This krap has to end!!!

quote:

Posted Sun 09 March 2008 07:01 AM Hide Post
Why is it that the military does not get rid of KBR. They have the worst support for the soldiers that can be provided. They have no standards!

Additionally, they have moved to Dubai to skirt paying taxes. Not to mention all the tax dollars that is leaving our economy due to KBR hiring TCNs while their pockets are fat.

Please do us a favor and rid us of these thieves. They provide services that directly impact moral.

Here's the skinny. Privatization was sold as a great way to save money. Unfortunately the size and complication of the tasks outsourced mean that there is seldom more than one maybe two corporations that have the resources and expertise to do them. No compitition means high cost, poor service. Also if everyone remembers the invasion of Iraq was a rush affair. There was no time for the military to take bids and scrutinize the corporation's proposals. Result "no bid" contract to a company Our Vice President could highly recommend. Add to the problem the Pentagon's mistaken notion that everything from logistics, intelligence gathering, interrogations, and private security details could be done by handing private corporations huge wads of money and telling them "get er done" with little or no oversight. In fact the military drastically cut back on personnel to oversea contracts. We are learning a sad and expensive lesson that there is no "turn key" solution for war.

quote:

Originally posted by Cleatus45:
its Bushes fault

holy shite- its NOT?

oh, Cheneys fault...close enough....

Yep, I am sure cheny flies over there and ORDERS them to make bad water. Way cheaper and no backlashes or news storeis would ever come from something like that.


God I hate the media.

Actually it is Bush's fault, in so far as the CinC is responsible for the policies enacted by the SecDOD. Priviatizing combat service support is part of Rumsfeld's plan to overhaul the military. So by default, I guess it is Bush's fault.

What happened to 'only the best for the troops'?

This is the second time that water was a problem for army contractors. In a country that any tourist books would have told them that diarrhea's endemic.

Maybe they'll get the best when they're back home getting over their Iraqi 'bugs'.

PS What sort of water do Iraqis get?

If it ain't George's fault .......

And again, all that contractor stuff gives us a world of sh*t. Someone's filling their pockets, the common people pay and the troops puke.

The problem may or not be solved. The report means nothing more or less than that data examined from 04- 06 found a problem. Two years from now we may find that data from 06- 08 shows there is still a problem.

I'm glad the KBR's food is so good but remember every mouthful is trucked in from Kuwait. Gold plating the supply contract not only means a lot more money for KBR but necessitates more convoys. More convoys=more targets. Filipino truck drivers that come to Iraq to earn $600mo, a fortune for them, go home in a box. Also third tier security contractors turn the routes into highways of death for Iraqi civilians. We are long past the point where the private military contractor tail is waging the military head.
BTW my Buddy at a FOB near Tikrit still has me send cases of top ramin to stash for all those times supplies don't make and they go on short rations. They send out details from time to time to pick up their own mail.

quote:

I find it curious that everyone acts as if contractors just suddenly popped up under the current administration.

Seems to me that the same ones were there under previous administrations...

quote:

I find it curious that everyone acts as if contractors just suddenly popped up under the current administration.

Seems to me that the same ones were there under previous administrations...

That is true but their use has grown about 500% During the relatively short span of this administration. The Pentagon hires contractors to write the contracts for other contractors and they are not under the control of commanders on the ground. If a problem arises they have to notify the Pentagon which examines the contract to make sure it is being carried out according to it's terms. They notify the contractor who may notify a cascading tier of sub-contractors and the problem may or may not get solved after months or even years. The days of say, a Gen Petraeus ordering say, a supply Sargent to get it done are over.