quote:

Originally posted by I_M_Qwerty:

quote:

Your reading of the Charter was quite selective ...

Not at all. I read the entire document ... did you? My quotations were selective ... after all, it is a long document. I'm still waiting for someone to provide quotations that back up their assertion of what we are required to do under the OAS charter.

quote:

Originally posted by Anbar7:

quote:

Originally posted by Thud357L:
Oh, now I get it. Just heard Rush this morning. He says Obama was wrong. Now it all makes sense.

Listen to him a lot do you? Too bad, your brain is probably turned to mush already.

quote:

Originally posted by rayld2:

quote:

Originally posted by I_M_Qwerty:

quote:

Your reading of the Charter was quite selective ...

Not at all. I read the entire document ... did you? My quotations were selective ... after all, it is a long document. I'm still waiting for someone to provide quotations that back up their assertion of what we are required to do under the OAS charter.

Did you also read the associated docs adopted later, sort of like the Amendments to the US constitition?

quote:

Originally posted by I_M_Qwerty:

quote:

Your reading of the Charter was quite selective ...

Not at all. I read the entire document ... did you? My quotations were selective ... after all, it is a long document. I'm still waiting for someone to provide quotations that back up their assertion of what we are required to do under the OAS charter.

quote:

Originally posted by Grachus:

quote:

Originally posted by I_M_Qwerty:

quote:

Your reading of the Charter was quite selective ...

Not at all. I read the entire document ... did you? My quotations were selective ... after all, it is a long document. I'm still waiting for someone to provide quotations that back up their assertion of what we are required to do under the OAS charter.

Short of force, that's exactly what the Charter calls for

"b) To promote and consolidate representative democracy, with due respect for the principle of nonintervention;"

Short of force, just how would one go about "Promoting Democracy? Indeed, part of the earlier quotes from the charter I gave you states that overthrowing a Democratic Government REQUIRES stripping such a country of their membership rights. How can such a thing occur without actions?

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by I_M_Qwerty:

quote:

Originally posted by Grachus:

quote:

Originally posted by I_M_Qwerty:

quote:

Your reading of the Charter was quite selective ...

Not at all. I read the entire document ... did you? My quotations were selective ... after all, it is a long document. I'm still waiting for someone to provide quotations that back up their assertion of what we are required to do under the OAS charter.

Short of force, that's exactly what the Charter calls for

"b) To promote and consolidate representative democracy, with due respect for the principle of nonintervention;"

Short of force, just how would one go about "Promoting Democracy? Indeed, part of the earlier quotes from the charter I gave you states that overthrowing a Democratic Government REQUIRES stripping such a country of their membership rights. How can such a thing occur without actions?

Dave

So let the OAS strip the HOnduras of its membership rights ... and Obama follow our law and terminate foreign aid ... though as I have argued and you have refrained from answering ... stripping a president of his authority and revesting it in another democratically elected official ... without changing the form of government ... is hardly overthrowing a democracy. I ask again ... what defines what occurred in the Honduras as "not legal"? ... and your quotation from the OAS charter, with all due respect, doesn't require jack diddley from Obama.

quote:

Originally posted by FlankerFlyer:
So Dave (and others), this was not a coup.

If it was, then what we did to Nixon in the 70s was also a coup.

The supreme court and the congress chose to oust a bad president according to their constitution.

It doesnt get any clearer than that.

There is nothing to intervene in as the government wasnt deposed, democracy is in fact functioning as required under their constitution.
There will be an interim president until the presidential elections are held, according to the constitution.

Why must some of you read more into it than what really happened.

Please someone tell me (quoting specific paragraphs in the Honduran constitution) exactly what was done illegally.

quote:

Originally posted by rayevinsonsr:
The leftist government of Honduras is still intact Dave. This fact doesn't seem to matter to some folks. The very leftist President Zelaya, rancher, Oligarthy, Christian, Dictator however you want to describe him ran afoul of the establishment but continued to go against the rightful government. He, was not the government. To force a referendum his own party turned against him. In one manner of speaking I like mavericks but he played his hand and lost.

Honduras was attack by El Salvador in what they caled the Soccer wars. It took the OAS two days to respond giving nothing to support their defensive effort. By the OAS inaction once Honduras ridded themselves of the intruders several tens of thousands Salvadorean were displaced back to their own country setting up a human disaster far more than the war itself. Central America has seen the Ortega, Military Generals, Sandinista, Castro, your bud Hugo and many others.

Legalese OAS establishes a democratic process, free elections, absent from intimidation. How can you pick on Honduras with Chavez the dictator arresting the oppostition, Castro imprisoning them.

Foremost in any charter it will say any State has the right of self protection from enemies home or abroad. I think Honduras just solved both problems by the early retirement of Zelaya..

quote:

So then, you would have opposed those who got rid of Communism in Russia because they "broke the law?" You support the Chinese in their quashing of the Tibetan People, because they were upholding the law?

quote:

Originally posted by I_M_Qwerty:

quote:

So then, you would have opposed those who got rid of Communism in Russia because they "broke the law?" You support the Chinese in their quashing of the Tibetan People, because they were upholding the law?

LOL ... he wouldn't ... but Obama apparently would have. Obama's the "not legal" guy, remember?

quote:

Plain and simple, like any dictatorial ruling group, the Oligarchs of Honduras wrote a "fail safe" Constitution. Such is part of the stock and trade of all dictatorships. When this maverick moved to promote basic human rights, they've gone ballistic.

quote:

Originally posted by FlankerFlyer:
So Dave (and others), this was not a coup.

If it was, then what we did to Nixon in the 70s was also a coup.

The supreme court and the congress chose to oust a bad president according to their constitution.

It doesnt get any clearer than that.

There is nothing to intervene in as the government wasnt deposed, democracy is in fact functioning as required under their constitution.
There will be an interim president until the presidential elections are held, according to the constitution.

Why must some of you read more into it than what really happened.

Please someone tell me (quoting specific paragraphs in the Honduran constitution) exactly what was done illegally.

quote:

Originally posted by I_M_Qwerty:

quote:

Plain and simple, like any dictatorial ruling group, the Oligarchs of Honduras wrote a "fail safe" Constitution. Such is part of the stock and trade of all dictatorships. When this maverick moved to promote basic human rights, they've gone ballistic.

LMAO ... you win Dave ... I can't top that. It's a dictatorship because its Constitution precludes establishing the conditions needed for a dictator to take control. Got it. Clear.

quote:

Originally posted by peter3_1:
Home of the people think:
""http://lagringasblogicito.blogspot.com/

We should, of course "meddle" here in Honduras, but not with murdering islamofascists in the ME and JP Facist./Communist governments in the Western Hemisphere, right?

quote:

"We are the majority"

"Micheletti is our President!"

"Open your eyes. We are 90% of the country!"

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Originally posted by peter3_1:
PECULIAR response, Dave. Got anything better?

Got a link to the 1982 Honduran Constituion in ENGLISH?

Mr. Obama won't "meddle" in Iran, Syria, Cuba, etc. politics, but seems gleeful to "meddle" in Israel and Honduras' affairs. Why is that Dave, as you seem to have access to info. we don't.

quote:

* Organization of American States: The OAS called for an emergency meeting on Sunday,[2][63] where it approved a resolution demanding "the immediate, safe and unconditional return of the constitutional president, Manuel Zelaya."[64] Secretary-General José Miguel Insulza called the situation "a military coup."[

* Caribbean Community: In a press release, CARICOM denounced the coup and voiced its concern over the treatment of Honduran and diplomatic officials during the coup. "The Caribbean Community condemns the military action which has interrupted the democratic process in Honduras and which contravenes the principles of the Inter-American Democratic Charter. The Community therefore calls for the immediate reinstatement of President Zelaya."[67]


* Mercosur and Paraguay: President of Paraguay and current president pro tempore of Mercosur Fernando Lugo condemned the coup and said that no member state of Mercosur will recognize a Honduran government that is not led by Manuel Zelaya. Lugo also called for those behind the coup to be punished by serving prison sentences.[69]

* European Union: The European Union called on the Honduran military to release the president and restore constitutional order.[2]

* Argentina: Argentine President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner said: "I'm deeply worried about the situation in Honduras. It reminds us of the worst years in Latin America's history. We will demand that the OAS (Organization of American States) fully comply with the democratic charter that requires unconditional respect for democracy and, above all, the restoration of the Honduran president. I do not hesitate to call this a return to barbarity. All countries of the continent and the entire international community should demand the return of the democratically elected president."[72]


* Brazil: Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva condemned Honduras military coup, considering it "unacceptable",[77] and assured that his peer Jose Manuel Zelaya must return back to his post as the only condition to keep relations with this country[78]. Celso Amorim, the Brazilian Minister of External Relations issued a press release "strongly condemning the military action that resulted in the ousting of the President of Honduras," urging for his "immediate and unconditional return to power," and expressing "solidarity with the Honduran people." [79] the Brazilian ambassador in Honduras, who was on vacation in Brazil, was ordered not to return to Honduras.[80]

* Canada: Peter Kent, the Minister of State of Foreign Affairs (Americas), stated: "Canada condemns the coup d'état that took place over the weekend in Honduras, and calls on all parties to show restraint and to seek a peaceful resolution to the present political crisis, which respects democratic norms and the rule of law, including the Honduran Constitution. Democratic governance is a central pillar of Canada's enhanced engagement in the Americas, and we are seriously concerned by what has transpired in Honduras."[81]

* Colombia: The Colombian government released a four point statement where they expressed profound concern by the break in constitutional order, rejected the removal by force of the democratically elected President Zelaya, called for the re-establishment of constitutional and legal order, and supported the actions of the OAS in its attempts to find democratic solutions for the crisis in Honduras.[83]

* Costa Rica: In a joint press conference with Manual Zelaya, Costa Rican President Óscar Arias condemned the coup and said that it "indicates that democracy in Latin America and its institutions are fragile and vulnerable". Arias also said that Zelaya was personally in "good condition" and that Costa Rica was offering Zelaya "all the courtesies that he deserves".[84]

* Dominican Republic: "This coup d’état represents a step backwards because it violates the Democratic Charter of the Organization of American States (OAS)", says Leonel Fernández, President of Dominican Republic.[87]

* Ecuador: Rafael Correa, the President of Ecuador, said he would not recognize any new government in Honduras.[88

* France: The French Foreign Ministry said in a statement: "France firmly condemns the coup that has just taken place in Honduras. The arrests and expulsions of diplomatic envoys are a grave breach of the Vienna convention. They are unacceptable. The constitutional order must be restored at the earliest opportunity. France calls on all parties to act with respect for the principles and values of democracy."[90]

* Germany: Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier condemned the arrest and exile of President Zelaya stating that it is "an act which violates the constitutional order of the Republic of Honduras. It is now vital for Honduras to swiftly return to law and order. I call upon the conflict parties to resume dialogue and to find a peaceful solution which takes due account of democracy and the rule of law."[91]

* Guatemala: Guatemalan President Álvaro Colom said in a press conference that Guatemala "recognizes President Zelaya as the democratically chosen president". Colom said that he will discuss with fellow Central American presidents in Managua about how to restore democracy in Honduras.[92]

* Italy: Foreign Minister Franco Frattini released a statement calling the coup "a serious violation of law and democratic rules".[93]

* Jamaica: Foreign Minister Dr Ken Baugh, who is also Jamaica's deputy prime minister, said the removal of President Zelaya was in breach of the principles of respect for the rule of law, human rights and constitutional order. "The government of Jamaica maintains its full support for and recognition of President Zelaya and therefore calls for his immediate reinstatement.[94]

* Mexico: The Mexican government condemned the arrest and forced exile of Zelaya to Costa Rica.[95]

* Norway: The Norwegian Ministry of Foreign Affairs also condemned the coup, and called on the legally elected government of Manuel Zelaya to be re-instated immediately in order for democracy to return in Honduras.[97]

* Panama: The Panamanian government condemned the coup.[98]

* Paraguay: President of Paraguay Fernando Lugo said that the coup participants belong in prison.[69]

* Peru: José García Belaúnde, the Foreign Minister of Peru, said that his government "strongly condemns" the coup and will push for the re-establishment of democracy in Honduras.[99]

* Spain: A spokesperson for Spanish Prime Minister José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero released the following statement: "The head of the government expressed his strongest condemnation for the illegal detention and expulsion of the constitutional president of the Republic of Honduras, Manuel Zelaya. The solution to any dispute must always be found through dialogue and respect for democratic rules. There is not, neither can there ever be, a solution to the Honduran crisis outside the country's constitutional framework."[72]

* Switzerland: The Federal Department of Foreign Affairs issued a statement expressing its concern. It "urges those responsible to re-establish constitutional order and the rule of law. It calls for a democratic and peaceful resolution of the current crisis." [101]

* United Kingdom: Chris Bryant, the British Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, said: "The UK condemns the expulsion of President Zelaya and calls for the restoration of democratic, constitutional government in Honduras. We support the Organisation of American States' call supporting the rule of law and are deeply concerned about the deployment of military personnel onto the streets of Tegucigalpa."[102]

* Uruguay: Vice President of Uruguay Rodolfo Nin Novoa condemned the coup and called for the re-establishment of democratic order in Honduras.[108]