quote:

Originally posted by 13561129:
IF THEY HAD BEEN THERE A FEW MINUTES EARLIER, THEY MORE THAN LIKELY WOULD NOT HAVE HAD PERMISSION TO SHOOT DOWN EITHER PLANE. JUST LIKE ANYONE WITH THEIR FINGER ON THE TRIGGER ~ YOU CANNOT FIRE 'TIL GIVEN PERMISSION. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT ANYONE AT THE TIME WAS READY TO DO THAT.

HOPEFULLY, WE WOULD NOT HAVE THAT PROBLEM TODAY, BEING AS TOUGH A DECISION AS IT WOULD HAVE TO BE!

quote:

Originally posted by malcontent71:

quote:

Originally posted by 13561129:
IF THEY HAD BEEN THERE A FEW MINUTES EARLIER, THEY MORE THAN LIKELY WOULD NOT HAVE HAD PERMISSION TO SHOOT DOWN EITHER PLANE. JUST LIKE ANYONE WITH THEIR FINGER ON THE TRIGGER ~ YOU CANNOT FIRE 'TIL GIVEN PERMISSION. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT ANYONE AT THE TIME WAS READY TO DO THAT.

HOPEFULLY, WE WOULD NOT HAVE THAT PROBLEM TODAY, BEING AS TOUGH A DECISION AS IT WOULD HAVE TO BE!

Maybe if Bush had gotten off is azz as soon as he learned the first plane had hit the towers our armed forces would have been able to mount an effective defense. Instead, he chose to go to that elementary school and read "My Pet Goat" to a bunch of fourth graders.

Then, he decided (he is the decider, after all) to sit there for SEVEN FULL MINUTES after he learned that a second plane had crashed into the towers, almost a full hour after the first plane hit.

Now, if you don't think that an F-15 or F-16 could have intercepted and neutralized those planes if scrambled immediately, you're smoking crack.

Remember when Payne Stewart's plane depressurized and was basically flying on autopilot with everyone inside incapacitated? How long did it take those F-16's to intercept?

Look it up. Oh, and Cheney was apparently the one who would had to have given the order to shoot down the planes before they reached their targets. Wonder why he would have rathered the attack be completed before doing anything....

It's not like he's profited handsomely off of this war or anything, I mean, it's not like the attacks of 9/11 were a neocon wet dream, right?

Wake up, sheeple!

quote:

Originally posted by AF_1stSgt:
It's easy to Momday morning quarterback especially when you don't have to make the decision. What if (just for fun) the first plane hit the tower by accident, mechanical failure, huge pilot error, whatever it doesn't matter why but according to you GW should have cut through huge layers of command, ordered the jets to launch and shoot down the next plane that got near the towers. Since it's been over 6 years now it's hard to remeber how we used to think, but would anyone have given that order Pre-9/11?

Yes, if the fighters knew where to go, they could have gotten there pretty fast. You are missing a few things though. Most fighters are not sitting fully armed on the flightline with the pilots in the cockpit just waiting to launch in 2 minutes. They are being flown on training missions at all times of the day, being worked on daily, in extended maintenance, etc. The pilots are just as busy with mission briefs, post mission briefs, the odd piles of paperwork, and any other additionl duties they are assigned. Sorry the scrambled immedietly thing isn't realistic, or at least wasn't back then. They also didn't know where the missing passenger pplanes were since they turned off their transponders and with the air full of planes trying to find that small blip is very difficult. The Payne Stewart plane had it's transponder on and was flying it's fllight plan, how hard does that sound to find?

It's interesting how you mix fact and opinion
"Look it up. Oh, and Cheney was apparently the one who would had to have given the order to shoot down the planes before they reached their targets."

So was it a great conspirency planned by the republicans or just great luck it happened during their watch, I mean unlike the 1st WTC bombing, the USS COle, Kobar Towers, etc.?

quote:

It's interesting how you mix fact and opinion

quote:

Originally posted by USNVet940:

quote:

It's interesting how you mix fact and opinion

I would agree with your assessment of his post(s) except that "interesting" is not the word I would choose to describe it. Pathetic is more appropriate.

quote:

Originally posted by malcontent71:

quote:

Originally posted by USNVet940:

quote:

It's interesting how you mix fact and opinion

I would agree with your assessment of his post(s) except that "interesting" is not the word I would choose to describe it. Pathetic is more appropriate.

So are both of you disputing that Cheney was in command that day? Show me some proof, professors.

quote:

Originally posted by malcontent71:

quote:

Originally posted by AF_1stSgt:
It's easy to Momday morning quarterback especially when you don't have to make the decision. What if (just for fun) the first plane hit the tower by accident, mechanical failure, huge pilot error, whatever it doesn't matter why but according to you GW should have cut through huge layers of command, ordered the jets to launch and shoot down the next plane that got near the towers. Since it's been over 6 years now it's hard to remeber how we used to think, but would anyone have given that order Pre-9/11?

Yes, if the fighters knew where to go, they could have gotten there pretty fast. You are missing a few things though. Most fighters are not sitting fully armed on the flightline with the pilots in the cockpit just waiting to launch in 2 minutes. They are being flown on training missions at all times of the day, being worked on daily, in extended maintenance, etc. The pilots are just as busy with mission briefs, post mission briefs, the odd piles of paperwork, and any other additionl duties they are assigned. Sorry the scrambled immedietly thing isn't realistic, or at least wasn't back then. They also didn't know where the missing passenger pplanes were since they turned off their transponders and with the air full of planes trying to find that small blip is very difficult. The Payne Stewart plane had it's transponder on and was flying it's fllight plan, how hard does that sound to find?

It's interesting how you mix fact and opinion
"Look it up. Oh, and Cheney was apparently the one who would had to have given the order to shoot down the planes before they reached their targets."

So was it a great conspirency planned by the republicans or just great luck it happened during their watch, I mean unlike the 1st WTC bombing, the USS COle, Kobar Towers, etc.?

Right, it's pretty convenient that there were all those fake radar blips on the screens that day, isn't it? Odd coincidence that the terrorists decided to attack on the very day we were running multiple drills to simulate hijacked airplanes, too. No, I don't think the Republicans planned it, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if a faction therein decided that a successful attack would be much more beneficial than a thwarted attack.

Even if the first plane had hit the tower by accident, there was more than enough chatter coming out of Air Traffic Control to indicate that something nefarious was afoot. And yes, Cheney was in the bunker that day as Bush was in Florida then skedaddling around the country on AF1. Cheney would have had to give the order to shoot down. At the very least, the planes should have been shadowed and if they proceeded into a densely populated area, then it become a lesser of two evils and you make the decision that minimizes loss of life and property, which would be to bring the planes down.

And as the ostensible CiC, Bush really shouldn't have had to "cut through layers of command", should he? He's supposed to be the top dog and what he says goes. He really screwed the pooch on 9/11. Thankfully he's redeemed himself by reluctantly taking the nation to war as a last resort against an enemy determined to destroy us

NORAD was notified at 8:30 am that a plane had been hijacked and that it was not a drill. Regardless of when NORAD was notified that planes had been hijacked, we know the first plane hit the WTC at 8:46 am. This is not in dispute. The second plane hits at 9:03 am. The Pentagon is hit at 9:37 am. WTF? No excuse for this.

And don't F-15s and F-16s have active radar? They don't rely on transponders to locate their targets as far as I know. Too many convenient coincidences, methinks.

quote:

Originally posted by malcontent71:

quote:

Originally posted by USNVet940:

quote:

It's interesting how you mix fact and opinion

I would agree with your assessment of his post(s) except that "interesting" is not the word I would choose to describe it. Pathetic is more appropriate.

So are both of you disputing that Cheney was in command that day? Show me some proof, professors.

quote:

Originally posted by AF_1stSgt:
So now we knew the attack was comming and deceided to give it a little help?

Cutting through layers of command is relaying information up and down the chain of command.

As for NORAD being notified, are they taking orders from the FAA? Being notified isn' the same as being able to proceed on that. They can't just create a search and destroy mission becasue the FAA called and said there was a hijacking. There hasn't been a hijacking in the US in a long time, but when was the last time there was and they intentionally flew the plane into a building? What presidence did they have to request jets to shoot them down? NORAD doesn't have control of the fighters, each base does.
Accorng to your profile, you were never in the service and apparently hold us in contempt, trying to explain the chain of command is a waste of time.

BTW, you are wrong on the transponders as well.

quote:

Originally posted by AF_1stSgt:

quote:

Originally posted by malcontent71:

quote:

Originally posted by USNVet940:

quote:

It's interesting how you mix fact and opinion

I would agree with your assessment of his post(s) except that "interesting" is not the word I would choose to describe it. Pathetic is more appropriate.

So are both of you disputing that Cheney was in command that day? Show me some proof, professors.

The only time the VP is in command is when the POTUS is incapacitated. He was flying across country to a public speaking event. How does that make him incapacitated?
You can hold all the GW is always incapacitated jokes as well. Facts only please.

quote:

Originally posted by malcontent71:

quote:

Originally posted by AF_1stSgt:
So now we knew the attack was comming and deceided to give it a little help?

Cutting through layers of command is relaying information up and down the chain of command.

As for NORAD being notified, are they taking orders from the FAA? Being notified isn' the same as being able to proceed on that. They can't just create a search and destroy mission becasue the FAA called and said there was a hijacking. There hasn't been a hijacking in the US in a long time, but when was the last time there was and they intentionally flew the plane into a building? What presidence did they have to request jets to shoot them down? NORAD doesn't have control of the fighters, each base does.
Accorng to your profile, you were never in the service and apparently hold us in contempt, trying to explain the chain of command is a waste of time.

BTW, you are wrong on the transponders as well.

Why don't we all just agree to blame Clinton and be done with it?

Seriously, I think I understand the chain of command and from what I understand, the COMMANDER IN CHIEF sits at the top of that chain. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

I guess when your CiC is reading a childrens book during the most damaging attack in the history of the country, however, that might preclude him from actually commanding anything.

How long do you think it'd take an F-15 to get from Otis to New York city during an attack on American soil? I'd think less than 10 minutes, but what do I know.

We also know there were F-16 at Andrews AFB that weren't able to intercept 77. Why is that?

It's easier to just accept the official version than it is to question the myriad inconsistencies, I know this. Just saying, those F-15s should have been in New York and D.C. six years ago. Maybe then we wouldn't have gotten dragged into Iraq.

quote:

Originally posted by AF_1stSgt:

quote:

Originally posted by malcontent71:

quote:

Originally posted by AF_1stSgt:
So now we knew the attack was comming and deceided to give it a little help?

Cutting through layers of command is relaying information up and down the chain of command.

As for NORAD being notified, are they taking orders from the FAA? Being notified isn' the same as being able to proceed on that. They can't just create a search and destroy mission becasue the FAA called and said there was a hijacking. There hasn't been a hijacking in the US in a long time, but when was the last time there was and they intentionally flew the plane into a building? What presidence did they have to request jets to shoot them down? NORAD doesn't have control of the fighters, each base does.
Accorng to your profile, you were never in the service and apparently hold us in contempt, trying to explain the chain of command is a waste of time.

BTW, you are wrong on the transponders as well.

Why don't we all just agree to blame Clinton and be done with it?

Seriously, I think I understand the chain of command and from what I understand, the COMMANDER IN CHIEF sits at the top of that chain. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

I guess when your CiC is reading a childrens book during the most damaging attack in the history of the country, however, that might preclude him from actually commanding anything.

How long do you think it'd take an F-15 to get from Otis to New York city during an attack on American soil? I'd think less than 10 minutes, but what do I know.

We also know there were F-16 at Andrews AFB that weren't able to intercept 77. Why is that?

It's easier to just accept the official version than it is to question the myriad inconsistencies, I know this. Just saying, those F-15s should have been in New York and D.C. six years ago. Maybe then we wouldn't have gotten dragged into Iraq.

Why drag Clinton into this? I thought neocons were supposted to do that?
You are corerct, the CiC is the top.
So anytime he isn't actually commanding anything he's not hte CiC? How does that work?

It's not the time factor, since it takes more than 10 minutes to prep and launch a jet. Did you watch the first plane hit the towers, say...yeap that s a terrorsit attack and there's gonna be more comming any minute now?

In case you haven't noticed, it's a big sky and trying to find a jet that isn't trying to be found isn't easy.

Let's just say this... If GW had ordered jets into the air and shot down the wrong jet OR his shot down ordered plane crashed someplace else and killed more people he would have bene impeached, and tried by now.
Again easy to say woulda, coulda, shoulda.
Not so easy to order.

quote:

Originally posted by malcontent71:

quote:

Originally posted by AF_1stSgt:

quote:

Originally posted by malcontent71:

quote:

Originally posted by USNVet940:

quote:

It's interesting how you mix fact and opinion

I would agree with your assessment of his post(s) except that "interesting" is not the word I would choose to describe it. Pathetic is more appropriate.

So are both of you disputing that Cheney was in command that day? Show me some proof, professors.

The only time the VP is in command is when the POTUS is incapacitated. He was flying across country to a public speaking event. How does that make him incapacitated?
You can hold all the GW is always incapacitated jokes as well. Facts only please.

Cheney may not have officially been in command, but he was the one calling the shots. And whay, praytell, was the speaking engagement Bush was heading to that day? He was scurrying around the country like a dog with its tail between its legs, not heading someplace where he could take up command.

I don't recall him commanding much of anything that day, save the attention of some fourth grade students.

quote:

Originally posted by AF_1stSgt:
He was in command. Period, end of statement.