RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,149546,00.html

When will Murtha assume room temp???

As an avowed Murtha fan, I've found him to be on target more often than not. Most importantly, he's always been a realist and a pragmatist IMHO. His call for redeployment in 11/05 and assessment that our troops were caught in the crossfire of a civil war triggered such a compulsive spasm of jingoistic rage that it took over a year before the Administration and the GOP could spit out the word "redeploy" in the context of a proposal for action. Murtha is giving notice, with some disgust I'm sure, that politics is again hurting the troops.

quote:

Originally posted by bwf27:
As an avowed Murtha fan, I've found him to be on target more often than not. Most importantly, he's always been a realist and a pragmatist IMHO. His call for redeployment in 11/05 and assessment that our troops were caught in the crossfire of a civil war triggered such a compulsive spasm of jingoistic rage that it took over a year before the Administration and the GOP could spit out the word "redeploy" in the context of a proposal for action. Murtha is giving notice, with some disgust I'm sure, that politics is again hurting the troops.

So what is your assessment of him calling Marines murderers before they went to trial?

quote:

Originally posted by 6486143:

quote:

Originally posted by bwf27:
As an avowed Murtha fan, I've found him to be on target more often than not. Most importantly, he's always been a realist and a pragmatist IMHO. His call for redeployment in 11/05 and assessment that our troops were caught in the crossfire of a civil war triggered such a compulsive spasm of jingoistic rage that it took over a year before the Administration and the GOP could spit out the word "redeploy" in the context of a proposal for action. Murtha is giving notice, with some disgust I'm sure, that politics is again hurting the troops.

So what is your assessment of him calling Marines murderers before they went to trial?

______________________________________________

As an avowed Murtha fan, I am sure that is not something he would wish to discuss.

quote:

Originally posted by stepnfetchet:

quote:

Originally posted by 6486143:

quote:

Originally posted by bwf27:
As an avowed Murtha fan, I've found him to be on target more often than not. Most importantly, he's always been a realist and a pragmatist IMHO. His call for redeployment in 11/05 and assessment that our troops were caught in the crossfire of a civil war triggered such a compulsive spasm of jingoistic rage that it took over a year before the Administration and the GOP could spit out the word "redeploy" in the context of a proposal for action. Murtha is giving notice, with some disgust I'm sure, that politics is again hurting the troops.

So what is your assessment of him calling Marines murderers before they went to trial?

______________________________________________

As an avowed Murtha fan, I am sure that is not something he would wish to discuss.

translation: I was wrong, but I'll never admit it

as an avowed Murther disliker I am starting to feel bad for him.

He just wants what we all want.....A WAR WHERE WE SUFFER NO CASUALTIES OR FATALITIES

IN ORDER FOR THAT TO HAPPEN WE WOULD HAVE TO NUKE EVERYONE BUT US...

HARDLY A VICTORY TO CELEBRATE....

Yep, right on target with his Haditha assesment.

quote:

Originally posted by bwf27:
As an avowed Murtha fan, I've found him to be on target more often than not. Most importantly, he's always been a realist and a pragmatist IMHO. His call for redeployment in 11/05 and assessment that our troops were caught in the crossfire of a civil war triggered such a compulsive spasm of jingoistic rage that it took over a year before the Administration and the GOP could spit out the word "redeploy" in the context of a proposal for action. Murtha is giving notice, with some disgust I'm sure, that politics is again hurting the troops.

quote:

Originally posted by 6486143:

quote:

Originally posted by bwf27:
As an avowed Murtha fan, I've found him to be on target more often than not. Most importantly, he's always been a realist and a pragmatist IMHO. His call for redeployment in 11/05 and assessment that our troops were caught in the crossfire of a civil war triggered such a compulsive spasm of jingoistic rage that it took over a year before the Administration and the GOP could spit out the word "redeploy" in the context of a proposal for action. Murtha is giving notice, with some disgust I'm sure, that politics is again hurting the troops.

So what is your assessment of him calling Marines murderers before they went to trial?

CORRECTION: If memory serves, he called them "cold-blooded-murderers."

quote:

Originally posted by SgtSchaeffersMom:

quote:

Originally posted by 6486143:

quote:

Originally posted by bwf27:
As an avowed Murtha fan, I've found him to be on target more often than not. Most importantly, he's always been a realist and a pragmatist IMHO. His call for redeployment in 11/05 and assessment that our troops were caught in the crossfire of a civil war triggered such a compulsive spasm of jingoistic rage that it took over a year before the Administration and the GOP could spit out the word "redeploy" in the context of a proposal for action. Murtha is giving notice, with some disgust I'm sure, that politics is again hurting the troops.

So what is your assessment of him calling Marines murderers before they went to trial?

CORRECTION: If memory serves, he called them "cold-blooded-murderers."

I stand corrected, but as for him?

quote:

Originally posted by SgtSchaeffersMom:.........
CORRECTION: If memory serves, he called them "cold-blooded-murderers."

Hey mom, how goes it? BTW, I would be very interested in seeing a source that I could read that quotes him as saying that. I do not doubt you; I just have not seen that extreme of quote by him. You could post it or link to my profile page and email it to me if you desired.

Thanks for caring so very much.

At least that’s the way this old soldier and proud Coast Guard dad sees it!

Do a simple word search on a search engine. You'll see it.

quote:

Originally posted by OldArmyWOPA:

quote:

Originally posted by SgtSchaeffersMom:.........
CORRECTION: If memory serves, he called them "cold-blooded-murderers."

Hey mom, how goes it? BTW, I would be very interested in seeing a source that I could read that quotes him as saying that. I do not doubt you; I just have not seen that extreme of quote by him. You could post it or link to my profile page and email it to me if you desired.

Thanks for caring so very much.

At least that’s the way this old soldier and proud Coast Guard dad sees it!

And lest we forget the Honoarble Sen. Durbin's remarks of comparing our forces in Iraq to Soviet gulag guards and Nazis.

quote:

Originally posted by drymartini:
Do a simple word search on a search engine. You'll see it.

quote:

Originally posted by OldArmyWOPA:

quote:

Originally posted by SgtSchaeffersMom:.........
CORRECTION: If memory serves, he called them "cold-blooded-murderers."

Hey mom, how goes it? BTW, I would be very interested in seeing a source that I could read that quotes him as saying that. I do not doubt you; I just have not seen that extreme of quote by him. You could post it or link to my profile page and email it to me if you desired.

Thanks for caring so very much.

At least that’s the way this old soldier and proud Coast Guard dad sees it!

quote:

Originally posted by 6486143:

quote:

Originally posted by SgtSchaeffersMom:

quote:

Originally posted by 6486143:

quote:

Originally posted by bwf27:
As an avowed Murtha fan, I've found him to be on target more often than not. Most importantly, he's always been a realist and a pragmatist IMHO. His call for redeployment in 11/05 and assessment that our troops were caught in the crossfire of a civil war triggered such a compulsive spasm of jingoistic rage that it took over a year before the Administration and the GOP could spit out the word "redeploy" in the context of a proposal for action. Murtha is giving notice, with some disgust I'm sure, that politics is again hurting the troops.

So what is your assessment of him calling Marines murderers before they went to trial?

CORRECTION: If memory serves, he called them "cold-blooded-murderers."

I stand corrected, but as for him?

My feelings about Murtha are well documented here on this forum. . . to say that I despise him is being gracious, and I don't want to start another tirade, sorry. . .

quote:

Originally posted by corporalJT:
as an avowed Murther disliker I am starting to feel bad for him.

He just wants what we all want.....A WAR WHERE WE SUFFER NO CASUALTIES OR FATALITIES

IN ORDER FOR THAT TO HAPPEN WE WOULD HAVE TO NUKE EVERYONE BUT US...

HARDLY A VICTORY TO CELEBRATE....

Roll him in pig grease, drop him from a plane over known terrorists area.

quote:

Originally posted by SgtSchaeffersMom:

quote:

Originally posted by 6486143:

quote:

Originally posted by SgtSchaeffersMom:

quote:

Originally posted by 6486143:

quote:

Originally posted by bwf27:
As an avowed Murtha fan, I've found him to be on target more often than not. Most importantly, he's always been a realist and a pragmatist IMHO. His call for redeployment in 11/05 and assessment that our troops were caught in the crossfire of a civil war triggered such a compulsive spasm of jingoistic rage that it took over a year before the Administration and the GOP could spit out the word "redeploy" in the context of a proposal for action. Murtha is giving notice, with some disgust I'm sure, that politics is again hurting the troops.

So what is your assessment of him calling Marines murderers before they went to trial?

CORRECTION: If memory serves, he called them "cold-blooded-murderers."

I stand corrected, but as for him?

My feelings about Murtha are well documented here on this forum. . . to say that I despise him is being gracious, and I don't want to start another tirade, sorry. . .

Me too.

Cut & paste from one of the original releases. Couldn't find what anti-Murthaites accuse Murtha of saying. I remember he reported this as support for his vehement contentions the troops were being stressed out, mismanaged, whatever. Interesting how partisan bias can turn stories around to fit the bias. But thanks, Y'all, for the lively response.

Lawmaker: Marines deliberately killed Iraqis
Navy conducting war crimes probe into November violence in Haditha
By Jim Miklaszewskiand Mike Viqueira
NBC News
Updated: 8:27 p.m. CT May 17, 2006
WASHINGTON - A Pentagon probe into the death of Iraqi civilians last November in the Iraqi city of Haditha will show that U.S. Marines "killed innocent civilians in cold blood," a U.S. lawmaker said Wednesday.
From the beginning, Iraqis in the town of Haditha said U.S. Marines deliberately killed 15 unarmed Iraqi civilians, including seven women and three children.
One young Iraqi girl said the Marines killed six members of her family, including her parents. “The Americans came into the room where my father was praying,” she said, “and shot him.”
On Wednesday, Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., said the accounts are true.
Military officials told NBC News that the Marine Corps' own evidence appears to show Murtha is right.
A videotape taken by an Iraqi showed the aftermath of the alleged attack: a blood-smeared bedroom floor and bits of what appear to be human flesh and bullet holes on the walls.
The video, obtained by Time magazine, was broadcast a day after town residents told The Associated Press that American troops entered homes on Nov. 19 and shot dead 15 members of two families, including a 3-year-old girl, after a roadside bomb killed a U.S. Marine.
On Nov. 20, U.S. Marines spokesman Capt. Jeffrey Pool issued a statement saying that on the previous day a roadside bomb had killed 15 civilians and a Marine. In a later gunbattle, U.S. and Iraqi troops killed eight insurgents, he said.
U.S. military officials later confirmed that the version of events was wrong.
Murtha, a vocal opponent of the war in Iraq, said at a news conference Wednesday that sources within the military have told him that an internal investigation will show that "there was no firefight, there was no IED (improvised explosive device) that killed these innocent people. Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood."
Military officials say Marine Corp photos taken immediately after the incident show many of the victims were shot at close range, in the head and chest, execution-style. One photo shows a mother and young child bent over on the floor as if in prayer, shot dead, said the officials, who spoke to NBC News on condition of anonymity because the investigation hasn't been completed.
One military official says it appears the civilians were deliberately killed by the Marines, who were outraged at the death of their fellow Marine.
“This one is ugly," one official told NBC News.
Three Marine officers — commanders in Haditha — have been relieved of duty, and at least 12 Marines in all are under investigation for what would be the worst single incident involving the deliberate killing of civilians by U.S. military in Iraq.
The Marine Corps issued a statement in response to Murtha's remarks:
"There is an ongoing investigation; therefore, any comment at this time would be inappropriate and could undermine the investigatory and possible legal process. As soon as the facts are known and decisions on future actions are made, we will make that information available to the public to the fullest extent allowable."
Murtha held the news conference to mark six months since his initial call for "redeployment" of U.S. forces from Iraq.
He said U.S. forces were under undue pressure in Iraq because of poor planning and allocation of resources by the Bush administration.
The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12838343/

A phrase worth repeating from the above article is... Military officials told NBC News that the Marine Corps' own evidence appears to show Murtha is right. For what it's worth.

quote:

Originally posted by OldArmyWOPA:

quote:

Originally posted by SgtSchaeffersMom:.........
CORRECTION: If memory serves, he called them "cold-blooded-murderers."

Hey mom, how goes it? BTW, I would be very interested in seeing a source that I could read that quotes him as saying that. I do not doubt you; I just have not seen that extreme of quote by him. You could post it or link to my profile page and email it to me if you desired.

Thanks for caring so very much.

At least that’s the way this old soldier and proud Coast Guard dad sees it!

Gunner, I suppose it depends on which statement you want to read as the man's true feelings. There is the report that appeared in Time Magazine dated 22 May 2006:

quote:

When a Congressman makes the extraordinary claim that U.S. troops killed innocent civilians "in cold blood," Washington takes notice. And when he's a former Marine and decorated Vietnam vet, the assertion carries special weight. Pennsylvania Democrat John Murtha, who backed going to war in 2002 but has become a vocal critic of the Bush Administration's handling of Iraq, last week said U.S. Marines were guilty of murdering civilians in the Iraqi town of Haditha last November--an event that was uncovered by TIME in March.

Murtha made his claims after being briefed on an ongoing U.S. military investigation sparked by TIME's story, which detailed allegations that 15 Iraqis at Haditha might have been shot by Marines--not killed by a bomb, as the Marines had said. "It's much worse than was reported," said Murtha, the top Democrat on the House Defense Subcommittee. "There was no firefight. There was no [improvised explosive device] that killed those innocent people." Murtha claimed that "about twice as many" Iraqis were killed as had been reported. Other sources say investigators have found that up to two dozen Iraqis died, including eight men who had earlier been described by military sources in Iraq as enemy combatants. As TIME reported earlier, eyewitnesses cast doubt on the military's claim, saying four of the Iraqis had been pushed into a closet, then shot. Military sources deny the victims had been in a closet and said one had had a gun while another had "seemed" to be reaching for one.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,119643...phere-inline-sidebar Those remarks were apparently made on or about May 17th. SgtShaefersMom takes the position, to which she is fully entitled, that those remarks reflect his true feelings.

He also put out a press release on the 18th of May.

quote:

I am a Vietnam combat veteran. I understand full well the type of situation those Marines were in. These are allegations. I believe that the case should and will be fully investigated and that the Marines involved will be treated fairly by the military justice system.

I talk to commanders and soldiers all the time about the circumstances they face in Iraq. I talk to not only the brass at the Pentagon, but to the officers in the field and the soldiers I see every week at Bethesda and Walter Reed medical centers with their arms and legs blown off by IEDs. I am acutely aware of the type of situation those Marines were in. Our soldiers are incredibly brave and are fighting in an extremely difficult combat environment with extremely difficult rules of engagement. They perform heroically and have been for going on four years now, with very few exceptions. As a nation, we can be extremely proud of the conduct of our US military.

As I've said, I understand the fog of war and the confusion of battle. But we are a nation of laws, including the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). The United States of America has never condoned, nor should it ever condone, indiscriminate, deliberate killing of civilians. When we do that, we become no better than the enemy we are trying to eradicate.

Further, to ignore this incident, which happened six months ago and has now been publicized around the world, is to invite criticism that the United States does not practice what it preaches. That will severely undermine our goals of promoting democracy, as did the Abu Ghraib scandal. Again, the United States of America does not condone the deliberate killing of innocent civilians.

http://www.house.gov/murtha/news05-06/PRhaditha.html It is my opinion that statement is more reflective of his sentiments, based on his track record with the military.

My opinion is that when given MANY, MANY opportunities to disavow or clarify his statements, OR APOLOGIZE, he did NEITHER.

If his heart and motives were as pure as the driven snow as some here would have us believe, Murtha would have gone overboard, in fact, stopped all the presses, repeatedly and in perpetuity, to make SURE that NO ONE mis-understood his comments. . . . but, like I said, his silence has been deafening.

Personally, I don't think ANYONE makes those kind of comments by accident, because in unguarded and unscripted moments, WHAT IS IN YOUR HEART COMES OUT YOUR MOUTH. . . . These are the moments when we find out the most about our elected officials.

And NO ONE in this nation, deserves the benefit of due process and presumption of innocence from our elected officials, more than the very soldiers putting their lives on the line to preserve it. Murtha's comments denigrated and slandered specific troops, who deserved the presumption of innocence under all law in this nation.

Just admit it. . . HE SCREWED UP.

Case closed.

quote:

Originally posted by bwf27:
As an avowed Murtha fan, I've found him to be on target more often than not. Most importantly, he's always been a realist and a pragmatist IMHO. His call for redeployment in 11/05 and assessment that our troops were caught in the crossfire of a civil war triggered such a compulsive spasm of jingoistic rage that it took over a year before the Administration and the GOP could spit out the word "redeploy" in the context of a proposal for action. Murtha is giving notice, with some disgust I'm sure, that politics is again hurting the troops.

Thank GOD for men of honor and truth like Jack Murtha. Keep up the excellent work Congressman.

quote:

Originally posted by leekujawa:

quote:

Originally posted by bwf27:
As an avowed Murtha fan, I've found him to be on target more often than not. Most importantly, he's always been a realist and a pragmatist IMHO. His call for redeployment in 11/05 and assessment that our troops were caught in the crossfire of a civil war triggered such a compulsive spasm of jingoistic rage that it took over a year before the Administration and the GOP could spit out the word "redeploy" in the context of a proposal for action. Murtha is giving notice, with some disgust I'm sure, that politics is again hurting the troops.

Thank GOD for men of honor and truth like Jack Murtha. Keep up the excellent work Congressman.

Unfortunately Lee, that says more about you than it does Murtha. Apparently neither of you have the faintest idea what honor really means.