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Basic Training
Posted
RE: http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,149001,00.html

This article indicates that group therapy can be very effective. So why do I get the impression the VA does not concentrate on group therapy for stress counseling?
 
Posts: 8 | Registered: Wed 26 April 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Basic Training
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I agree with the segment and i to was a leader and suffer from PTSD but when you goto out paient therpy and listen to people rattle there traps that has never been there and tells you it will be all right kind of burns your back side.and i honestly beleive that the VA is really not equiped to treat for PTSD they have a general ideal but not a 1 on 1.
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: Wed 12 September 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Interesting article regarding PTSD. It is not easy living with a person who suffers from it. My husband of 30 yrs, a retired USAF M/Sgt, has only within the last year been able to get help & that was by the insistence of his ex-wife's husband who also suffers from it. My husband spent 2 yrs in SE Asia & when he returned, his first marriage fell apart rapidly, however no one knew what had happened to him. I did not know for many years what his problem was but he was diagnosed w/PTSD while still on active duty when he had a melt down in 1984. He retired in 1985, & since that time has had several problems. He went to the VA in 1987 to get compensation but was denied. He went again in 1997 & was denied again. Went in 2006 & was denied again. We have since found out that the 1st 2x's, the VA NEVER requested all of his medical records nor his mental health records. Makes one wonder!
This is an on going battle & unfortunately, he has had to do most of the footwork. The DAV has been most helpful through this battle to say the least.
My husband's PTSD has intensified greatly since 2 of our grandchildren are serving in Iraq & we have a 3rd one leaving to go back in 2008. My husband is seeing a therapist & has been for a year.
While living in Orlando from 1991 to 2000, he played golf with verterans who dealt with the same thing, therefore having their own little support group & the PTSD was not so intense.
Once we moved to Tennessee & that support group was no longer there, things slowly began to come apart again. It is an ongoing battle, & thank goodness I have become more informed & can deal with his PTSD a bit better. If he has had thoughts of suicide, he has not told me but probably has told his therapist.
These troops that are coming home & the military is saying they have a "personality disorder", (do't you think that would have been discovered prior to entering the service?)really seem to be doing our brave troops a dis-service. Without a doubt, these folks have PTSD & it is so wrong how they are being treated.(PTSD is a form of personality disorder, duh)The government just wants to get out of compensating these folks that's all.
Our hearts go out to all our service members(WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War, Iraq & Afghanistan) & their families who deal with PTSD & its effects.
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: Mon 13 November 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Basic Training
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Group Therapy? Does it really help? I went to a few sessions in the early 70's and 80's, all they wanted to talk about were war stories, and the chief instructor all he wanted to do was hit on my wife and told her we should get a divorce! Guess he was more interested in her then my health! Also, group sessions only help if everyone agrees to discuss their problems, and not venture off into war stories! Also, the VA does little to help, they hold up disability for months, they have you talk to some young Pshyc that has never been to any war zones, all they know is what they learn from books, not in real life situations,the VA needs people that have the experience first hand and not just book studies! Other words-walk a mile in their shoes to judge them! No to group therapy! Fought the Va for years since my Agent Orange screening, have rash that was reported in Navy while in Viet Nam, they had 2 young intern doctors say it was Chlor Acne, then the VA Doctor said it was falecalitous (not sure of spelling), was denied also for PTSD-denied up till 2000! That was 32 years after Nam!
 
Posts: 7 | Registered: Thu 13 September 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
If a tree falls in a forest and lands on a politician, even if you can't hear the tree or the screams, I'll bet you'd at least hear the applause.
Paul Tindale
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There are good therapists and bad. Everyone gets out what they put in, in most cases. Yes, the military and even the individuals were diametrically opposed to therapy. Why? Only the real crazies needed it. Our cultures, both military and civilian, were not too receptive to this. Just shake it off and soldier on. That was the therapy.

Knew a lot of guys that spend a lot of time in VN. Quite a few had problems. Problems that they and the military did not want to deal with. A shame! Some were really dysfunctional. A lot hit the bottle or drugs and never came out. Some took their life. Some are still around today and are receiving help.

Historically, PTSD, was ignored, or explained as cowardness (see example of GEN Patton hitting the patient). It was that distant look, shellshock, etc. Each generation had a name for it, but really didn’t do that much for it.

Advances in diagnostic capability, better understanding by all, have resulted in better treatment. A little late for many, but better late than never.

Anyone having, or suspecting of having, PTSD, hang in there and get treatment. Have a good day!~!
Wink Cool
 
Posts: 3298 | Registered: Fri 22 June 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Basic Training
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Been going through the same thing for 32 years, nobody ever told us ANY prgrams were available.
Then when you get into a program they teach you how to breathe, not addressing the issues that caused the stress.
We get run around so much we leave the program and that's what they want you to do.
I'm not into playing games but that's what the VA does. We can give everything away to others from around the world but we never take care of our own. It's very sad we can't form our own union and petition these people who won't help us out of their jobs.
There's no justice.
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: Thu 13 September 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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My husband served almost twenty years in the Army. He went two Iraq twice. He has been diagnosed with PTSD. He is now discharged. He was diagnosed by a civilian counselor he saw through Military OneSource.com. She recommended he read information about PTSD. The book he chose was The Alcoholism and Addiction Cure: A Holistic Approach to Total Recovery by Chris Prentiss. After reading the book he is better able to find recovery. My heart goes out to every man and woman who has served in our armed forces. Anyone who finds themself in this situation please talk with someone. YOU ARE VALUED AND LOVED.
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: Sun 16 September 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
CHIEF MODERATOR
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Thanks for your posts.

This site has an area dedicated to PTSD with several forums and many threads.

You can find it by clicking right here.

Check it out when you have a moment.


"There are those who believe there are two types of people in the world: Those who believe there are two types of people; and those who don't." John Mahoney...
 
Posts: 8088 | Registered: Mon 23 February 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Smile There is one counselor you can trust: It is Jesus Christ. I recommend reading a new book titled DOWNPOUR by James MacDonald if you are troubled and down. An older book that was helpfull to me in the past is THE POWER OF POSITIVE THINKING by Norman Vincent Peal.

Life is an adventure: seek and live it ! Smile
 
Posts: 2375 | Registered: Sun 27 November 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Now I see where you are coming from.
 
Posts: 3302 | Registered: Tue 03 July 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by 9163348:
My husband's PTSD has intensified greatly since 2 of our grandchildren are serving in Iraq & we have a 3rd one leaving to go back in 2008. My husband is seeing a therapist & has been for a year.
While living in Orlando from 1991 to 2000, he played golf with verterans who dealt with the same thing, therefore having their own little support group & the PTSD was not so intense.

Intresting, Alot of people my age (Gulf War 90-91)now have kids in Iraq. For alot of us it's more of a feeling that if we had been able to finish what we started then mabie it would not be so bad now. It's a guilt thing. These kids are being blown to hell and it's our fault.( or mabie George Sr's admistration) Yes there are those who do suffer PTSD from Desert Storm, but it is nothing compared to what my father went through after Vietnam or what these kids are going through now. There are starting to be alot of frightning similarities between the two.
I have found more support by being around people who have gone through it. I am lucky to work in a place that is loaded with Vets. I work with guys who served in Vietnam and with the guys who have only just gotten out or are in the reserves and still being deployed. I was A 91G when I was in so our break room often turns into "group therapy".You gotta love those cival service jobs.
 
Posts: 322 | Registered: Tue 22 August 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Basic Training
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They do concentrate on the groupd counseling. However, in my husband's case, he was not fond of the group sessions at first and it took him time to adjust. My husband is a chronic PTSD sufferer from Vietnam. The group thing doesnt seem to work as well for these guys because part of their issues are being in large groups and trusting people. I think that the group thing works best for the newer PTSD sufferers. I am just glad that the VA is making an attempt to help Vets, so I am not about to complain, just lend my observation
 
Posts: 64 | Registered: Fri 27 July 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Basic Training
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The VA or military is not going to request his records. If its VA records he needs he can either request those himself (my husband did and got them in 3days) and submit them that way, or be sure to fill out the form that is for VA records specifically and not the general release form. If you call the VA, they will let you know what form it is. That is what we had to do.
 
Posts: 64 | Registered: Fri 27 July 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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I have a question, if the military gives mental health test before these soldiers go in, how can they later say that their PTSD, depression, etc is not military related? If the person has mental health issues before he goes in, how is he getting in? UGH
 
Posts: 64 | Registered: Fri 27 July 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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I am a female ex-soldier now out the military. I never got the chance to live a normal military life. I graduated from AIT in Oct. 2003; reported to my unit Nov. and was deployed In Jan 2004: 2 months later. I barely got the chance to say goodbye to my family and get my affairs in order. I returned a year later; Jan 2005.Not knowing what was wrong with me. I was depressed and had panic attacks but no one could figure out what was wrong. I just knew I had changed.
We are given the opportunity for counseling before and after deployments. Believe me the higher ups could care less it was about the numbers. I knew soldiers being deployment whom had been to counseling prior to deploying and taking antidepressants. Once in Iraq some became increasely depressed and their weapon was taken from them for awhile. One soldier in our unit commited suicide on R&R. 2 weeks prior he had tried to put his 249 in his mouth, it was taken away, and he retrieved a knife and cut himself. The soldiers removed all weapons from his room and keep it a sercet, once it was out his weapon was removed from him a day or two. He was schedule for R&R a week or so later and as you know never came back.
As stated before I arrived back in the states a year later, Jan 2005, that same year Nov 2005-9 1/2 months later, I was deployed again, another year. This deployment was better, I was not. In returning I was suicidal and homicidal, paraniod, I could not sleep, I was anger, noise bothered me, I did not care about anything. I did not give up; I happen to have a good Section Sergeant, and an excellent Platoon Segaeant and Team Chief. I went for one on one counseling once a week, saw a case manager once a week, and joined a PTSD group 2 times a week for 2 hrs, plus I was given antidepressants, sleeping pills, etc. I was doped up most the time but I got through. It was hard and I had to push for treatment, I was not going to stand around and just die and I did not care what the other soldiers thought of me or that now I was a shitbag. I needed help. I had to fight for that sometimes; There was times I was schedule to go to the range and I let them know it was not safe for me or them to go. I even got a profile from my Therapist. But I was pushed to go, but for a detail. I let them know that I have suicide thoughts and if able to get to a weapon I would destroy all the people I could before they killed me. They finally got the message; I was only a SPC but as stated before I pushed for my treatment and my life. I was schedule to get out the army 6 months after returning from my 2nd deployment and going to the range and qualifying was the less of my worries; I was wondering how I was going to make it on the outside. Upon departing from the military I did attend all classed which was helpful. Once I departed I lived with my family for 2 months, got on unemployment and applied for Compensation and Pension, I heard I could be denied and it may take a long time. By the grace of GOD 7 months later I got a check and was declared 70% disable. I apply for Vo-Rehab, continued my couseling and Physical Therapy. I am now working for DOD..as a GS6. My work condition is excellent, I work with 4 other individuals; one ex army, one ex air force, my boss and a sergant. I was hoping for a job with not too many people I would have to deal with, with a mixture of civilians and military. I work with people that understand me and what I've been through. I have been blessed but it was a hard road and I pushed for what I have now. It was not easy and it still is not. I feel my civilian friends do not understand me nor my family and I spend little time with them, I do not go out other that work and running errands....and I admit I still get depressed but slowly things are getting better. I doubt I will return to the person I was. I would tell me therapist I would like to return to the person I was, I really liked that person; but I have stop fighting for that and am learning to deal with and like the person I am now.
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: Thu 07 February 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Experienced Member
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I want to thank you for your courageous service and for sharing your story with us. You the rest of your life be a blessing to you and to others.

Let’s all work for, look for, hope for and pray for an HONORABLE VICTORY and a SAFE RETURN home for our MAGNIFICENT GIs, at the earliest possible date, to a beautiful green-and-blue living planet for our grandchildren and great-grandchildren!
quote:
Originally posted by armyjjg8790:
I am a female ex-soldier now out the military. I never got the chance to live a normal military life. I graduated from AIT in Oct. 2003; reported to my unit Nov. and was deployed In Jan 2004: 2 months later. I barely got the chance to say goodbye to my family and get my affairs in order. I returned a year later; Jan 2005.Not knowing what was wrong with me. I was depressed and had panic attacks but no one could figure out what was wrong. I just knew I had changed.
We are given the opportunity for counseling before and after deployments. Believe me the higher ups could care less it was about the numbers. I knew soldiers being deployment whom had been to counseling prior to deploying and taking antidepressants. Once in Iraq some became increasely depressed and their weapon was taken from them for awhile. One soldier in our unit commited suicide on R&R. 2 weeks prior he had tried to put his 249 in his mouth, it was taken away, and he retrieved a knife and cut himself. The soldiers removed all weapons from his room and keep it a sercet, once it was out his weapon was removed from him a day or two. He was schedule for R&R a week or so later and as you know never came back.
As stated before I arrived back in the states a year later, Jan 2005, that same year Nov 2005-9 1/2 months later, I was deployed again, another year. This deployment was better, I was not. In returning I was suicidal and homicidal, paraniod, I could not sleep, I was anger, noise bothered me, I did not care about anything. I did not give up; I happen to have a good Section Sergeant, and an excellent Platoon Segaeant and Team Chief. I went for one on one counseling once a week, saw a case manager once a week, and joined a PTSD group 2 times a week for 2 hrs, plus I was given antidepressants, sleeping pills, etc. I was doped up most the time but I got through. It was hard and I had to push for treatment, I was not going to stand around and just die and I did not care what the other soldiers thought of me or that now I was a shitbag. I needed help. I had to fight for that sometimes; There was times I was schedule to go to the range and I let them know it was not safe for me or them to go. I even got a profile from my Therapist. But I was pushed to go, but for a detail. I let them know that I have suicide thoughts and if able to get to a weapon I would destroy all the people I could before they killed me. They finally got the message; I was only a SPC but as stated before I pushed for my treatment and my life. I was schedule to get out the army 6 months after returning from my 2nd deployment and going to the range and qualifying was the less of my worries; I was wondering how I was going to make it on the outside. Upon departing from the military I did attend all classed which was helpful. Once I departed I lived with my family for 2 months, got on unemployment and applied for Compensation and Pension, I heard I could be denied and it may take a long time. By the grace of GOD 7 months later I got a check and was declared 70% disable. I apply for Vo-Rehab, continued my couseling and Physical Therapy. I am now working for DOD..as a GS6. My work condition is excellent, I work with 4 other individuals; one ex army, one ex air force, my boss and a sergant. I was hoping for a job with not too many people I would have to deal with, with a mixture of civilians and military. I work with people that understand me and what I've been through. I have been blessed but it was a hard road and I pushed for what I have now. It was not easy and it still is not. I feel my civilian friends do not understand me nor my family and I spend little time with them, I do not go out other that work and running errands....and I admit I still get depressed but slowly things are getting better. I doubt I will return to the person I was. I would tell me therapist I would like to return to the person I was, I really liked that person; but I have stop fighting for that and am learning to deal with and like the person I am now.
 
Posts: 3302 | Registered: Tue 03 July 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Basic Training
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I read in the Gazette newspaper of Charleston, West Virginia about a military man being treated for PTSD and he died in his sleep. This is the fourth soldier, in West Virginia, to die in his sleep while taking a cocktail of medication for this condition. This has happened in a short period of time. I wonder how widespread this is. How many others have died from this treatment? Is this a medication problem? The VA doesn't know.
 
Posts: 44 | Registered: Thu 06 April 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by 4685921:
I read in the Gazette newspaper of Charleston, West Virginia about a military man being treated for PTSD and he died in his sleep. This is the fourth soldier, in West Virginia, to die in his sleep while taking a cocktail of medication for this condition. This has happened in a short period of time. I wonder how widespread this is. How many others have died from this treatment? Is this a medication problem? The VA doesn't know.
This is almost unbelievable - wait a minute, were talking about the VA - that means anything is possible. Statistically speaking, without some other interference, the number of possible deaths would be in the thousands.

I’m NOT currently taking any medicine for my PTSD, other than Ambien CR 12.5 and Melatonin with the use of a C-PAP under the directions of my Sleep doctor and my Heart doctors. After reading this story, I WILL NOT be taking any of the medicines listed in the article – I don’t need sleep that bad. Here’s the story and the link:


http://www.wvgazette.com/News/200805230640

quote:

Sunday Gazette Mail
sundaygazettemail.com – May 25, 2008
Charleston, West Virginia

May 24, 2008

[b]Vets taking PTSD drugs die in sleep
Hurricane man's death the 4th in West Virginia[b]
By Julie Robinson
Staff writer
By Julie Robinson

A Putnam County veteran who was taking medication prescribed for post-traumatic stress disorder died in his sleep earlier this month, in circumstances similar to the deaths of three other area veterans earlier this year.

Derek Johnson, 22, of Hurricane, served in the infantry in the Middle East in 2005, where he was wounded in combat and diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder while hospitalized.

Military doctors prescribed Paxil, Klonopin and Seroquel for Johnson, the same combination taken by veterans Andrew White, 23, of Cross Lanes; Eric Layne, 29, of Kanawha City; and Nicholas Endicott of Logan County. All were in apparently good physical health when they died in their sleep.

Johnson was taking Klonopin and Seroquel, as prescribed, at the time of his death, said his grandmother, Georgeann Underwood of Hurricane. Both drugs are frequently used in combination to treat post-traumatic stress disorder. Klonopin causes excessive drowsiness in some patients.

He also was taking a painkiller for a back injury he sustained in a car accident about a week before his death, but was no longer taking Paxil.

On May 1, the night before he died, Johnson called his grandfather, Duck Underwood, and asked if he could pick up his 5-year-old son and take him to school the next day. Johnson and his wife, Stacie, have three children, all under 6 years old. Their car had been totaled in the accident the previous week.

When Underwood arrived to pick up the boy the next morning, his knocks were not answered at first. He heard Stacie Johnson screaming. She opened the door and told him she couldn't wake her husband. They called paramedics, who could not revive him. Doctors did not declare an immediate cause of death.

Toxicology and autopsy results could take as long as 60 days, authorities told the family.

"I want to know the cause of death," said Ray Johnson, Derek's father. "Stacie said he was fine that night. Everything was normal. He kissed her goodnight and went to sleep."

Stan White, father of soldier Andrew White, has become an advocate for families of returning veterans with post-traumatic stress disorder. During his son's struggle with the disorder and since his death, White has tracked similar cases. He knows of about eight in the tri-state area of Kentucky, Ohio and West Virginia.

By Julie Robinson
jul...@wvgazette.com

A Putnam County veteran who was taking medication prescribed for post-traumatic stress disorder died in his sleep earlier this month, in circumstances similar to the deaths of three other area veterans earlier this year.

Derek Johnson, 22, of Hurricane, served in the infantry in the Middle East in 2005, where he was wounded in combat and diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder while hospitalized.

Military doctors prescribed Paxil, Klonopin and Seroquel for Johnson, the same combination taken by veterans Andrew White, 23, of Cross Lanes; Eric Layne, 29, of Kanawha City; and Nicholas Endicott of Logan County. All were in apparently good physical health when they died in their sleep.

Johnson was taking Klonopin and Seroquel, as prescribed, at the time of his death, said his grandmother, Georgeann Underwood of Hurricane. Both drugs are frequently used in combination to treat post-traumatic stress disorder. Klonopin causes excessive drowsiness in some patients.

He also was taking a painkiller for a back injury he sustained in a car accident about a week before his death, but was no longer taking Paxil.

On May 1, the night before he died, Johnson called his grandfather, Duck Underwood, and asked if he could pick up his 5-year-old son and take him to school the next day. Johnson and his wife, Stacie, have three children, all under 6 years old. Their car had been totaled in the accident the previous week.

When Underwood arrived to pick up the boy the next morning, his knocks were not answered at first. He heard Stacie Johnson screaming. She opened the door and told him she couldn't wake her husband. They called paramedics, who could not revive him. Doctors did not declare an immediate cause of death.

Toxicology and autopsy results could take as long as 60 days, authorities told the family.

"I want to know the cause of death," said Ray Johnson, Derek's father. "Stacie said he was fine that night. Everything was normal. He kissed her goodnight and went to sleep."

Stan White, father of soldier Andrew White, has become an advocate for families of returning veterans with post-traumatic stress disorder. During his son's struggle with the disorder and since his death, White has tracked similar cases. He knows of about eight in the tri-state area of Kentucky, Ohio and West Virginia.

He and his wife, Shirley, introduced themselves to the Johnsons and Underwoods at Derek's funeral and offered their help. He is in contact with the office of Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., who is a member of the Veterans' Affairs Committee. Rockefeller requested an investigation into these deaths, which is ongoing, said Steven Broderick, the senator's press secretary.

"When I talked to his family about Derek, I realized it was the same old story," said White. "It was all too familiar. He was taking those same drugs as the others, and, yes, I believe they are still prescribing that combination."

After speaking with family members, White wonders if the patients are taking the medicine as prescribed. He said PTSD patients suffer short-term memory loss and shouldn't be relied upon to track their medications.

Georgeann Underwood agrees.

"You shouldn't put vulnerable, mentally unstable people on drugs like that," she said.

An outgoing, personable young man who worked at several jobs to support his young family, Johnson frequently was offered other jobs by customers in the stores where he worked, Underwood said.

In 2006, he returned from the Middle East depressed and short-tempered. Johnson had operated an M249 Squad Automatic Weapon, or rapid-fire machine gun, and rarely spoke about his experiences there.

After his military prescriptions ran out, Johnson's medications were prescribed by private physicians because he refused to go the VA hospitals where he said he was required to wait long periods of time for appointments. His grandparents paid for his medications.

"He had a very short fuse," Ray Johnson said. "That was the biggest difference in his personality after he came back."

Until his death, he worked 12 or 16 hours a day. He was an electrical apprentice at the John Amos Power Plant until he was let go when his work hours approached the union limit for apprentices. He was on his way to apply for another job when the car he drove was rear-ended on April 24.

Johnson died May 2.
 
Posts: 3302 | Registered: Tue 03 July 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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I'm a former soldier that served in the first Gulf War. I now run a Center for veterans with PTSD to try and reduce some of their symptoms. I know that some of these young men and women need help and the VA is NOT THE ANSWER. They don't tailor the treatment to the individual it all comes out of a manual. We try and make sure that ALL our patients are taken care of in such a way that the stigma
of seeking help for this problem is minimized. They say I'm to old to serve in the military anymore but maybe this way i can still serve.
 
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