quote:

Originally posted by eyesight01:
Forgot; the cell phones have GPS right now and they have the on board map built into them also.
What are they? $150 each, right now. If you are in danger of loosing the dam thing to your enemy, it's drop it and step on it or a well place round through it.
I remember all to well the Nam stuff Sunliner. As fast as we would dream something up. The bad guys would figure it out and it became useless. The air drop listening "thing" we plunked along the "trail". Looked like unexploded ordinance. When they figured out we were listening to them, they really had fun with us. Drive the same truck past it 100 times and we would think CONVOY, go looking for one and never find it, or march 10 guys past it all night long and we would think a division was headed our way. The best one was MTI, man was that unreliable. The military canned it, so they sold it to civilian police departments as "The Radar Gun", get them speeders. I guess it doubles as a device to make police offices sterile also. NICE STUFF!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by 2552375:
Is it a glorified cel phone? The military just LOVES to spend our money on new gadgets . Years ago, I wrote a position paper recommending that the system change "specialized" repair parts to commercial specs and got shot down Remember that "special" hammer that cost $ 500, when you could buy the same piece of crap at your nearest store for $8 ??

quote:

Originally posted by 2552375:
Is it a glorified cel phone? The military just LOVES to spend our money on new gadgets . Years ago, I wrote a position paper recommending that the system change "specialized" repair parts to commercial specs and got shot down Remember that "special" hammer that cost $ 500, when you could buy the same piece of crap at your nearest store for $8 ??

quote:

Originally posted by RangerVet75:
Somebody gets lost on every land nav course. I've ran EIB Land Nav, RIP Land Nav, and even RGR School Land Nav...

Rangers get lost just as easy as a criminal investigation SGT at Ft. Hood in BNCOC.

All I'm saying is the basic skills are pretty hard. They do take constant practice. But I don't see technology being too much of a threat, or at least not enough of a threat that we shouldn't use it.

There will always be land navigation courses for the Infantry.

quote:

Originally posted by RangerVet75:
HA!

That picture is a very good likeness of what a Ranger in the Weapons section would be dressed like for a combat drop back in my day. It is a fake though, it's actually a very detailed ultra-realistic toy figure, like a GI Joe.

It's correct in almost every detail, even down to the glasses I used to wear.

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Originally posted by 03Mach1:
Damn them danged newfangled horseless carriages!
What happens when they run out of gas? Or have a flat tire? What about all that specialized training it takes to drive 'em? I hear you actually have to change the oil in 'em, too!
At least you can eat a horse, if you get to starvin'. Yeh, you have to feed 'em, and they do go lame from time to time, and then there's the saddle sores, but we've been usin' 'em fer years. I rode one when I was in the Cavalry, if they were good enough then they should be good enough now, by God!
Who needs technology!

quote:

Originally posted by 03Mach1:
Damn them danged newfangled horseless carriages!
What happens when they run out of gas? Or have a flat tire? What about all that specialized training it takes to drive 'em? I hear you actually have to change the oil in 'em, too!
At least you can eat a horse, if you get to starvin'. Yeh, you have to feed 'em, and they do go lame from time to time, and then there's the saddle sores, but we've been usin' 'em fer years. I rode one when I was in the Cavalry, if they were good enough then they should be good enough now, by God!
Who needs technology!

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Originally posted by AFRet91:
As a user of all sorts of comms, AM, FM, SSB, CW, Amtor/Pactor/Sitor, operated on LHF, HF, VHF, UHF, Microwave and Laser, let me tell you,chit happens. Sometimes the very best system is overcome by malfunction, operator error, mother nature and RFI of all sorts. Retaining the base skills of land nav and other vital survival skills is never out of style.
Yup, hardening of electronics is getting better and satellite comms are wonderful things. Just remember that anything with a potruding AC/DC power input or an antenna is still prone to EMP, Especially Satellite systems. One strategically placed air burst nuke can fry delicate satellite electronics in a nanosecond. There are foreign govts who now have the capabilities to produce a airburst of 100ktons at over one hundred miles altitude. A satellilte in that enviornment is charcoal. So is any electronics underneath the blast all the way out to the horizon curve and beyond by passing thru copper comm wire systems into other equipment. All my personal Hf comm equipment is housed in sealed RFI/EMP proof steel containers until needed.
Land warrior is a great concept. I hope it will work as envisioned. But, dont be naive, this stuff can fail catastrophically and over large areas with the application of EMP/RFI/nukes, etc.
The ability to read a paper map and navigate could save not only the life of one downed pilot, one lost infantryman, or whole armies whose fancy computerized equipment is nullified.

quote:

Originally posted by smokey5:
Unlike many who post on this site I was not consulted by the idiots in the Pentagon, Congress, the White House...well you get the drift, before the decision was made to utilize this equipment. Damn, when will they ever learn. They never recognized my brilliance while I was in the Corps, therefore I was only able to reach the rank of Sergeant. As for all the medals I deserved, but never received, well we just won't go there. I should have gotten my PHD, but the people in " Power" demanded that I attend a college. Oh yeah, the VA turned down my disability claim, because I refused to give them in pertinent facts as to how I got my injury. It really irks me to no end that they do not consider an injury caused from a brawl in a bar in Olongpo in 1967, combat related. I never made All American in football because God decided to make me vertically challenged. Woe is me. I guess these things qualify me as a Victim . Damn that Bush, Rove. During my time "IN" Vietnam I never saw the listening devices described by some who posted here. Our devices were called LP's (thats listening post for all of the wannabee's). I would hope that the troops in the field in Iraq and Afghanstan, would have any tool at their disposal, that would help them in killing the vermin we are fighting. I am one of the insensitive bastards who believes the use of the A Bomb in World War II was correct. As I write this, a group of protesters are holding a march against that decision about ten miles from my home. Stupid is as stupid does. Well, I do like the ones with the flimsy white cotten dresses that some of them are wearing. It is suppose to get in the mid nineties today, so their dresses will start to cling to their sweaty bodies. Man that is one of the things I miss about the sixties. The decade that is, not my age. Well, I better go take my medicine. I bet that damn Bush knew the bridge in Minn was going to fall. Time to go down to the day room. Rosebud...Rosebud.

quote:

Originally posted by RangerVet75:
Sunliner81,

You say, "Let the user decide..." Please read the Army Times story from 26 JUN 07 titled "Troops in Iraq give thumbs up to Land Warrior". The users give Land Warrior a "GO".

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/06/army_warrior_070623p/

I liked the post by Eyesight01, comparing our current technology (Land Warrior) with the old cell phone. I'm close to this project and I've seen every change and update since 1998. Land Warrior has survived budget cuts, congress cuts, training failures, and troop distrust. Each time is has gone back to the lab and become smaller, lighter, and better. And each time the Soldier has liked it more and more.

The funding was not renewed for 2008 because the program had accomplished what it was supposed to do: full operational integration with a Stryker Infantry battalion. That is what the budget was for. The entire R&D was complete. All tests had passed and it was time to deploy the system. This unit was selected to take this equipment into battle and assess whether it helped them close with and destroy the enemy.

It looks like it does.

The base model is out. You can call this LW 1.0 It has been a part of the Soldier's kit since Spring 2006. They have come up with so many good ideas, and have worked this into their tactics so well. The guys that stay on the Strykers (driver, gunner, vehicle commander) are hard wired into a mounted version of LW. LW also interacts with other technology built into the vehicle.

Once the unit rotates back to the States, you can expect all of the data and results of the deployment to be poured over by the decision makers. I foresee Congress approving a lot of money for further upgrades in the 2009 budget.

Imagine LW 2.0

I don't understand people who insist that a compass and paper map are all our Infantry needs. "It was good enough for me" attitudes confuse me.

By the way... if his system batteries do die early, all he does is walk over the Stryker and get new ones out of the built in charger.

I also don't understand the post about the EMP or someone turning off the satellites. You are arguing that we should forgo development and fielding of advanced technological combat systems because someone might set off an electromagnetic pulse? Here's a hint... billions of dollars have been spent to R&D shielding for our electronics. I don't think the problem would be all that bad.

Besides, the only one's able to turn of the GPS satellites is the USA. They belong to us, and unless somebody finds a way to shoot all those birds from the sky, I think we'll be OK.

Just the thoughts of a broken down Ranger who has been lost a few times and would have seen the benefit of Blue Force Tracking.

quote:

Originally posted by AFRet91: ...Retaining the base skills of land nav and other vital survival skills is never out of style. ...