quote:

SWEDEMTP
Basic Training
Picture of SWEDEMTP

Posted Wed 28 November 2007 08:37 AM Hide Post
A hard look at how we are conducting airstikes should be made. This was probably Type II CAS and that could mean that the JTAC controller was not physically on site with his/her eyes on the target and the aircraft performing the drop. If this was a mistake it will be a very costly one. Everytime we kill innocent civilians we take 10 steps backwards and give the Taliban leverage in thier resistance to democratic society.

Major you really believe these people want a democratic society, what they want is to be left alone so they can grow there poppies and make money from drugs, a democratic society is as far from there mind as the moon is from the earth.
it really frost me for the U.S. military to keep saying I'm sorry , this is supposed to be a war, or at least thats what the American people are paying through the nose for.and in a war or police action. or anytime a bullet comes out the front end of a rifle someone innocent is going to get killed.
Thats like the dept.of highways standing over a victim of a car accident and saying I'm sorry we made that curve a little to sharp.
Either we fight the damn war or get out. I prefer the second option, what is our gain being there , don't tell me its fight there or fight here.Thats been going around since the first world war.
Russia tried it for seven years, finally got smart and left.

First let ask a couple of questions:
1. is there an FAC calling these strikes or is it just the pilot seeing a target and unloading on it?

2. Is the type of jet being used for close air support the right plane for the job? I know if I was coming at 600 knots it would be hard for me to see what I was going to shoot or bomb?


There was one plane that very good at this kind of work when I was in the marines it was called the AD-6 Skyraider, but there is none of them left flying in military service now.

The above was just a thought on how to cut down on the number of friendly and civilians killed by mistake.

quote:

Originally posted by wtpworrier:
"There was an airstrike by coalition forces but later we found out that 12 people, all local road workers, were killed. The road workers were in a tent which was hit by one bomb. All died,"


Look's like somebody saw a target of opportunity and took it, safety and intel be damned. Not sure which crawled under my skin more - your post or AP for not including the balance I'll add at the end.

Here's some key info that appears to be missing prior to ANYONE making ANY Monday morning quarterback judgements regarding 'combat action' of any kind - IMHO
1) could it be communications differ? 2) Mountainous area? 3) When? Light of day or dark of night? 4) Did you serve? BTDT -- in jungles of Vietnam & mountains on Korean DMZ. Ever heard the term "FOG OF WAR" or see those bumper stickers of what happens?
Ask yourself, why would a tent be in the middle of nowhere? I don't think even the bad guys are that stupid. Desperate times call for desperate measures sometimes, never know. But you seem to find it easy to call our troops 'stupid' for making a collective stratigic error???
Did anybody bother to check before the release of weapons? Probably not. More than likely they missed reading that rule in the manual! either way it,s on record. I hear a lot people say that we are at "war", well guess what, we are not at "war", why? Be sure to call Al Quaeda & Hamas to tell them we aren't at war. For some reason they've missed that urgent MEMO! They appear to be killing for NO REASON in that case! because the President don't have the authority nor the power to declare war, only Congress can do that. Pelosi could ONLY WISH! ROFLMBBO! A little article that will assist in clearing that up for you.
WHY CONGRESSIONAL POWER TO DECLARE WAR DOES NOT PROVIDE AN EFFECTIVE CHECK ON THE PRESIDENT

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Congressional Actions Short of Declaring War

Congress has not formally declared war since World War II, even though the intervening years have witnessed substantial U.S. military involvement overseas.

This is not to say, however, that Congress has played no part in the decisions to commit troops. The Tonkin Gulf Resolution authorized military action in Vietnam. Similarly, Congress authorized the use of force against Iraq in 1991. And in September 2001, Congress authorized President Bush "to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons . . . ."

But in each of these military conflicts, Congress stopped short of declaring war. Why?

One answer is that formal declarations of war are a relic of the Eighteenth Century. Modern military conflicts are too fluid, and arise too suddenly, for a declaration of war to serve any practical purpose.

Try again!

When this whole thing started, the Repubs were in control of Congress and they did n
ot declare "war". And in September 2001, Congress authorized President Bush (Urrrr, Ummmm, note date - 2001... Repubs were and gave him AUTHORITY "TO" declareWhats the problem? can't these pilots hit the right target? It's been said that "theres nothing more dangerous than a well trained Soldier with a weapon" Whoever said that were wrong, "There nothing more dangerous than a pilot flying around in a jet with bombs not knowing friend from foe."Think I'll leave this one for the BTDT's -- you know, those STUPID pilots that, in my first hand experienced opinion - are putting their LIVES ON THE LINE every second they are piloting in order to keep grunts, like me (God bless them) ... ALIVE and because of them, along with ground troops, are WINNING THE GLOBAL WAR ON TERROR !!!! But then again, perhaps you don't understand what that's like! The ONE thing I'm absolutely sure of -- YOU ARE FOE!

"Identify the target before you shoot"

Perhaps identifying your targets prior to you shooting off & attacking those that put their lives on the line for YOUR freedoms to spout off openly without threat of Saudi Arabian lashings; Taliban Burkas & beheadings; or blown up just for being American!

Sic 'em, bros!

Would be nice to know if you were Army service or Army civil since profile is sparce on details.

Note a possible reason for confusion during any battle - (IF there was any & IF it pans out they were civilian, not enemy).

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AP: The US-led coalition helped remove the extremist Taliban from government in 2001 and is now working with the Afghan security forces and a separate NATO-led force to end an insurgency by the hardliners, who are allied with Al-Qaeda.

Afghan Security & SEPARATE NATO-led forces... not just American forces!


Here's what the "terrorists" do when they attack... Killings Spur Afghan Gov Walkout

77 CIVILIANS and Government officials blown up. The difference between USA = an "accident &/or bad info" vs Terrorists = PREMEDITATED SLAUGHTER.
Funny there's little to no ire toward them round these here parts, LMSM or angry blogs, most interesting, your post.

Our USA military are fighting against non-uniformed cowards (very familiar with their surroundings); in a country that makes the wild west look like a walk in the park; that thirst to kill anyone that won't bow down to their mind set & religion; that won't think twice of hiding behind/among the innocent - thus "accidents" will happen.

There are now 50 million peoples our BRAVE HEROES have freed in Afghan/Iraq. Why is it that "tad bit of information" seems to escape most conversations or debates?

I'll wait for sit rep down the road - not an AP slanted, no pics/video & lacking of any AP eyewitnesses article.

As for Associated Press Bias, IMO:

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AP: Critics blame the military's reliance on air power in remote areas and also accuse soldiers of a disproportionate use of force

So, AP, just who are those "critics"??? DISPROPORTIONTE??? What... troops need to change into Burkas to play fair??? Wonder if these critics "chairs" have heat & massage options while they google blogs for their "info" an ocean away. Does AP have the "body count" killed by or "attack numbers" made by the ENEMY??? curious!


2 cents spent - Larry

Blue on blue is always a tragedy, we can do better, condolences to the families.
Though technically this really wasn't blue on blue, something really needs to be done to make sure of the targets identity...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Well i thanh that we are always going to be the ones. Who will Have to take the blame for every thing that'sgoes wrong. Because peoples over their realy want's us theire in the firest place

My money is on the bad guys setting us up with bad intel. If it was a road going into any place in Nuristan that would represent progress and western funded improvements. The local warlords don't want improvements and are quick to violently rebel against anything we are paying for. Most of the road crews in that area are Chinese; these were Afghans. I find that pretty strange as well. Were they really a road crew or a rival group of locals that the boss wanted to eliminate and be able to blame it on us? Happens all the time over there. Lots of untold info in this report.

I hate that this is so late of a post, but these "workers" were setting up to ambush my convoy. This story went out world wide because of information gaps that the media did not try to verify correctly. I believe that I would have had casualties from the complex attack that these "workers" were setting up.

If what you say is true, thank you for posting it, better late then not at all. Strange how the media never recanted their version of what happened.

quote:

Originally posted by jreabe:
I hate that this is so late of a post, but these "workers" were setting up to ambush my convoy. This story went out world wide because of information gaps that the media did not try to verify correctly. I believe that I would have had casualties from the complex attack that these "workers" were setting up.

If they move they are Taliban. If they don't move they are well disciplined Taliban!

quote:

Originally posted by jreabe:
I hate that this is so late of a post, but these "workers" were setting up to ambush my convoy. This story went out world wide because of information gaps that the media did not try to verify correctly. I believe that I would have had casualties from the complex attack that these "workers" were setting up.

I want to thank you for serving and preserving my, all of our liberty! I appreciate you posting whenever. Truthful words are always appreciated - and the deceitful words of others will always be found out.

Thank you again Sir.

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Originally posted by L0A1:
If what you say is true, thank you for posting it, better late then not at all. Strange how the media never recanted their version of what happened.

quote:

Originally posted by jreabe:
I hate that this is so late of a post, but these "workers" were setting up to ambush my convoy. This story went out world wide because of information gaps that the media did not try to verify correctly. I believe that I would have had casualties from the complex attack that these "workers" were setting up.

The media never recants their untrue words, they follow the lead of Murtha and Kerry.

quote:

Originally posted by Naunie:

quote:

Originally posted by L0A1:
If what you say is true, thank you for posting it, better late then not at all. Strange how the media never recanted their version of what happened.

quote:

Originally posted by jreabe:
I hate that this is so late of a post, but these "workers" were setting up to ambush my convoy. This story went out world wide because of information gaps that the media did not try to verify correctly. I believe that I would have had casualties from the complex attack that these "workers" were setting up.

The media never recants their untrue words, they follow the lead of Murtha and Kerry.

And that's the truth. This story just so happens 'not' to appear in any middle east or Gulf news sources.