RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,161131,00.html

Until the "let-the-government-protect-you" stupidity of the 1980s inflicted upon us by organizations such as MADD, the drinking age had been pegged largely to the age when a guy was eligible for the draft. In fact, the draft card was the required ID for purchase of alcoholic beverages.

Whahop?

Why not peg it again to draft age and give equal rights to young women by making them subject to the draft and consequently able to drink at a younger age?

Jim
LTC USAR Ret.

Same thing went on during 'Nam, old enough to die for your country, not old enough to drink a beer.
'Cept back then, they'd let you drink on base in the E club. They figured it was easier to keep an eye on you then, of course back then, they used to put cigarettes and matches in the rations too...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

I think an armed forces ID card should be enough.

I think that it's crazy to even argue the point. If you've got a military ID, you should be served. The military should also get off it's politically correct a$$ as well and stop crucifying it's members for alchohol related incidents. A lot of us have some alchohol issues for a while when we come back from combat. No, I didn't get in trouble, but too many do.
SMSgt

MADD does a lot of good around the country ... they helped to keep POS drunks off the road.

quote:

Originally posted by jim_macgregor:
RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,161131,00.html

Until the "let-the-government-protect-you" stupidity of the 1980s inflicted upon us by organizations such as MADD, the drinking age had been pegged largely to the age when a guy was eligible for the draft. In fact, the draft card was the required ID for purchase of alcoholic beverages.

Whahop?

Why not peg it again to draft age and give equal rights to young women by making them subject to the draft and consequently able to drink at a younger age?

Jim
LTC USAR Ret.

We used to be able to drink on base but every PFC didn't have a car then. DUI's weren't a problem because they didn't have cars. But now that every PFC that lives in the Q has a car and a motorcycle, DUI's and crashes are a big problem.

Sure let them drink on base but I don't know how to keep them out of their cars.

Pretty simple .. like my POS neighboor who has 2x convictions ... the judge told him driving was a privileg NOT A RIGHT .. and took his license. He rides a bike and sometimes takes the bus to work now.

quote:

Originally posted by DblDist:
We used to be able to drink on base but every PFC didn't have a car then. DUI's weren't a problem because they didn't have cars. But now that every PFC that lives in the Q has a car and a motorcycle, DUI's and crashes are a big problem.

Sure let them drink on base but I don't know how to keep them out of their cars.

We are trying to get our young people to be responible with drinking. It scares me to think that we our ready to let young people drink. If the military lets the those under 21 drink, everyone else will follow the change. We already have to many problems with drinking and driving and domestic problems because of drinking.
I had a child hit my a drnken driven while my husband was still in the military. Back than nothing was done except give them a pat on the back. Drinking kills to many innocnent people. I remeber soldiers coming home from Vietnam and in a month was dead from driving drunk.
It is not something to take lightly. We already have to many acholics in the military. We were putting a stop to it. Such a law will only make more troubles.
But I think it will happen. For everyone feels sorry for those who go to war. So do I. For I have three sons involved right now. I was glad they could not drink underage when they first joined the military. And I am glad to report my three sons are not out drinking all of the time.

I remember a CSM who had to ride a bicycle to work because of too many DUI's.

when I was in guys under 21 drank anyway, they just had to slink around to do it, like some goofy teenager still living w/ mom and dad, which we found to be degrading and insulting. Specially those of us who'd already pulled 2 years in Germany drinking real beer that made this domestic crap look like tap water.

quote:

Originally posted by 6598693:
I think that it's crazy to even argue the point. If you've got a military ID, you should be served. The military should also get off it's politically correct a$$ as well and stop crucifying it's members for alchohol related incidents. A lot of us have some alchohol issues for a while when we come back from combat. No, I didn't get in trouble, but too many do.
SMSgt

I don't know what is politically correct about trying to stop people from killing themselves or innocent drivers/pedestrians.

Havings said that, I haven't seen any empirical evidence that would indicate that raising the drinking age from 18 to 21 had any substantial effect.

I thought it was a silly idea then and a silly idea now. Anyone who is 18 years old, military or not, should be able to grab a cold one.

Responsibily and accountability is the key. Anyone who drinks and drives is not only endangering themselves but also my family.

What we have in this country is a ridiculous case of Prohibition until age 21 and then no limits immediately thereafter. This policy has contributed to a culture in which young people who are considered old enough to fight and die for their country, old enough to enter into contracts, old enough to go to the big people's jail when they are arrested, and old enough to get married find that if they want to drink they have to do it in secret at someone's house or using fake IDs or at some fraternity bash.

The treatment of drinking as a forbidden goodie of adulthood has created a serious problem with young people sneaking around and bingeing. The thing about these zero tolerance laws is that even when young people are drinking responsibly they are being issued tickets or arrested and made to go to alcohol treatment programs and pay for attorneys and court costs. I've represented a number of young people (ages 19 and 20) in my jurisdiction who were cited for underage drinking while sipping beers at a backyard barbecue. Don't even get me started on the widespread police practice of simply walking into the yard of anyone young-looking who happens to be holding a beer and demanding proof of their age. Our constitutional rights are being trampled for the ephemeral "benefit" of stopping underage drinking, when the fact is that these same young people can walk into a liquor store on their 21st birthday and load up on serious beverages.

My ideas about the idiocy of this policy crystalized not only after years of watching perfectly nice young adults get labeled for something that was legal when I was their age, but when my two time Iraq veteran Marine niece, just a week or two shy of her 21st birthday, was caught by a Florida ATF enforcement officer sipping a beer with friends and cited for "underage consumption of alcohol." Well if she was old enough to go to war twice, I think she was old enough to have a beer. Sheesh.

Once you don the uniform and are operational, you are no longer a "youth." Like everything else, personal choices and responsibility are the key. We keep hearing that we are now fielding the smartest and best educated Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, Airmen, and Coast Guardsmen, let them prove it on and off duty.

When i was in the navy back in 1979 i was able to drink liquor legalley for the frist time.I was seventeen and this made me feel more like an adult.So i actted more like one also.I really don't tkink that this issue is only for the military.If you are considered an adult at the age of eighteen, and can even join the military you should be able to drink beer.Liquor at the age of twenty one just like it use to be.If not then your mommy and daddy should be able to write you off on their taxes until you are considered an adult what ever the age my be.

quote:

Originally posted by 0Crystal0:
MADD does a lot of good around the country ... they helped to keep POS drunks off the road.

quote:

Originally posted by jim_macgregor:
RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,161131,00.html

Until the "let-the-government-protect-you" stupidity of the 1980s inflicted upon us by organizations such as MADD, the drinking age had been pegged largely to the age when a guy was eligible for the draft. In fact, the draft card was the required ID for purchase of alcoholic beverages.

Whahop?

Why not peg it again to draft age and give equal rights to young women by making them subject to the draft and consequently able to drink at a younger age?

Jim
LTC USAR Ret.

So how did raising the age to drink help keep drunks off the road? Drunk driving still goes on and still many people die because of it.

Looking from the outside I totally understand the Reprensentative's argument, but appanerntly this "Gentleman" hasn't been waken up at 3am because Private Snuffy is at the MP station for refusing a breathalizer or has had the opportunity to sound off during the 1SG's roll call at a memorial service because someone decided to drink and drive and get his nice sports car wrapped around a tree. I'd strongly suggest that he takes a look at the Army's Combat Readiness Center (CRC) website and operation. Its an entire unit not just some small safety office) that researches and tries to minimize accidents and other safety concerns that affect our Army and its combat readiness. As a native South Carolianian (and DAMN PROUD SAND LAPPER)I'd ask the Congressman, when's the last time you've driven down SC 555 or SC 48. We need that highway money, those young soldiers can survive off of XBOX and Red Bull they will be ok.

SUNLINER - I don't know what part of the country you were from during VN (many states or counties, esp. in south and midwest, were dry), but through the '70s, where drinking was legal, it was legal at age 18. The rap THEN was that 18-year-olds were old enough to buy a beer or die for their country, but COULD NOT VOTE. The voting age was lowered to 18 in the '70s.

Now the situation is reversed: 18-year-olds can vote and die for their country, but can't buy a beer. Equally absurd.

The whole puritanical philosophy surrounding alcohol is ridiculous and counter-productive. If anything, the taboo nature of alcohol makes it all that much more alluring to youngsters who tend to experiment in secret and to excess.

Ask anyone who spent a couple years abroad, particularly in Europe: alcohol in moderation is a normal part of everyday life and most meals. Employee cafeterias in France, Spain and Germany sell beer and wine at lunch. Kids are sent to the corner store to buy a bottle of wine for dinner. They grow up with it, see it used in moderation as it was intended, and in general have much lower "danger" statistics than we do here in the States. Russia and Iceland - with huge vodka/alcoholism problems - are major exceptions.

I'm with the ones who favor legalizing alcohol for those 18 and over. Period. Though I doubt any major politician will want to take that on.

I say if your 18 and in the military you can drink. But what about those who join at 17 like I did? Why can't they drink too?

Everyone asks how to stop the drinking and driving. Well, if Amn Smith can leagally drink on base, he doesn't need to drink and drive. He can sit around the dorms with his buddy, or walk up to the club (which needs a boost). DUIs start when people have to travel to find alcohol. I am happy to be recently retired from a unit that had the courage to bring kegs back to the summer event. They required atleast 6 designated drivers to be on premisis prior to tapping the kegs. That is responsible leadership. If anyone does get a DUI, there is no reason to not throw the book their way in full force.

quote:

Originally posted by Cider33Alpha:
SUNLINER - I don't know what part of the country you were from during VN (many states or counties, esp. in south and midwest, were dry), but through the '70s, where drinking was legal, it was legal at age 18. The rap THEN was that 18-year-olds were old enough to buy a beer or die for their country, but COULD NOT VOTE. The voting age was lowered to 18 in the '70s.

Now the situation is reversed: 18-year-olds can vote and die for their country, but can't buy a beer. Equally absurd.

The whole puritanical philosophy surrounding alcohol is ridiculous and counter-productive. If anything, the taboo nature of alcohol makes it all that much more alluring to youngsters who tend to experiment in secret and to excess.

Ask anyone who spent a couple years abroad, particularly in Europe: alcohol in moderation is a normal part of everyday life and most meals. Employee cafeterias in France, Spain and Germany sell beer and wine at lunch. Kids are sent to the corner store to buy a bottle of wine for dinner. They grow up with it, see it used in moderation as it was intended, and in general have much lower "danger" statistics than we do here in the States. Russia and Iceland - with huge vodka/alcoholism problems - are major exceptions.

I'm with the ones who favor legalizing alcohol for those 18 and over. Period. Though I doubt any major politician will want to take that on.

Stationed at Cecil Field in Florida, or at least my squadron was home ported there, we deployed with CAG 17 on the Forrestal.
At Cecil you could buy alcohol at the E club, but not out in town. Also was from California, the drinking age in California was and is 21 years of age...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81