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Scientists are confident that news like these two stories will continue to appear---pretty much every week---for at least the next 100 years.
quote:

North Carolina Sea Levels Rising Three Times Faster Than In Previous 500 Years
"http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/tre59s3lt-us-climate-canada-arctic/"

An international team of environmental scientists led by the University of Pennsylvania has shown that sea-level rise, at least in North Carolina, is accelerating. Researchers found 20th-century sea-level rise to be three times higher than the rate of sea-level rise during the last 500 years.

In addition, this jump appears to occur between 1879 and 1915, a time of industrial change that may provide a direct link to human-induced climate change.

The research team studied two North Carolina salt marshes that form continuous accumulations of organic sediment, a natural archive that provides scientists with an accurate way to reconstruct relative sea levels using radiometric isotopes and stratigraphic age markers. The research provided a record of relative sea-level change since the year 1500 at the Sand Point and Tump Point salt marshes in the Albemarle-Pamlico estuarine system of North Carolina.

Comparison with 20th-century tide-gauge records validates the use of this approach and suggests that salt-marsh records with decadal and decimeter resolution can supplement tide-gauge records by extending record length and compensating for the strong spatial bias in the global distribution of longer instrumental records.

Multiyear Arctic ice is effectively gone
"http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091028192617.htm"

The multiyear ice covering the Arctic Ocean has effectively vanished, a startling development that will make it easier to open up polar shipping routes, an Arctic expert said on Thursday.

David Barber, Canada's Research Chair in Arctic System Science at the University of Manitoba, said the ice was melting at an extraordinarily fast rate. "We are almost out of multiyear sea ice in the northern hemisphere," he said in a presentation in Parliament.

Barber spoke shortly after returning from an expedition that sought -- and largely failed to find -- a huge multiyear ice pack that should have been in the Beaufort Sea off the Canadian coastal town of Tuktoyaktuk.

Instead, his ice breaker found hundreds of miles of what he called "rotten ice" -- 50-cm (20-inch) thin layers of fresh ice covering small chunks of older ice. "I've never seen anything like this in my 30 years of working in the high Arctic ... it was very dramatic," he said.

"From a practical perspective, if you want to ship across the pole, you're concerned about multiyear sea ice. You're not concerned about this rotten stuff we were doing 13 knots through. It's easy to navigate through."

An increasing number of experts feel the North Pole will be ice free in summer by 2030 at the latest, for the first time in a million years.
The canny politicians of the left are using this long-term science to "rope-a-dope" the far-right denialists.

The denialists cherry-pick short-term fluctuations, and shout loudly that global warming is disproved. And this strategy works over periods of weeks and months ... it is only necessary to cherry-pick.

But global warming is all about decades ... and since the long-term trends are all strongly biased toward warming ... the global warming folks are playing a winning political hand.

Like Muhammed Ali, they cover-up during short-term cooling episodes, then explode during long-term warming.

Meanwhile, the denialists exhaust themselves in shouting and paranoia ... this is the rope-a-dope aspect of the left's political strategy.

That is why the long-term future of conservatism requires accepting the sobering realities of global warming.

It's that, or else, conservatism loses to the left's rope-a-dope.



Prediction: a knock-out by global warming science.

Question: which corner will conservatism be in?
 
Posts: 6689 | Registered: Mon 30 August 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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quote:
Question: which corner will conservatism be in?

I'll give you just one guess.
 
Posts: 6072 | Registered: Wed 26 November 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by KoRnAdvocate:
quote:
Question: which corner will conservatism be in?
I'll give you just one guess.
What I like best about conservatism is its emphasis on morality, practicality, and respect for history.

But a planet with ten billion people on it has *never* happened before .... that's why history is *not* going to repeat itself ...

... and that's why American conservatism has to embrace a Petraeus-style strategy of Learn-and-Adapt,

American conservatism is facing three harsh realities:
  • a "can't win by military force alone" war,
  • a d*mn tough globalizing economy, and
  • a disastrously warming planetary ecology.


Either face-up, or else, the far-left wins by a rope-a-dope knockout.
 
Posts: 6689 | Registered: Mon 30 August 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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You know this has happened before only none of us were around to document it. You just dont get it because you are too hyped up about these short term cycles and forget the long term cycles that bring us global warming and ice ages.
 
Posts: 5794 | Registered: Sun 30 April 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by usmc_family:
Scientists are confident that news like these two stories will continue to appear---pretty much every week---for at least the next 100 years.


I am confident in this assumption as well.

Mainly because the only plan that the Democrats have (capping CO2 Emissions) will take decades to implement effectively and decades for the results to be seen after implementation.

But, that is what happens when a political party uses something like man made climate change as a way to control industry and funnel lobbyist money into their pockets.
 
Posts: 2252 | Registered: Sat 10 August 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Im still wondering how they are going to implement carbon caps on the other mammals in the world who dont go along with this farce?
I can see it now, the envirowhackos get together with the PETA whackos and come up with a humane way to kill off cattle, pigs and other polluting animals.
 
Posts: 5794 | Registered: Sun 30 April 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Previous Posts as Jade_Gate
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Originally posted by FlankerFlyer:
Im still wondering how they are going to implement carbon caps on the other mammals in the world who dont go along with this farce?
I can see it now, the envirowhackos get together with the PETA whackos and come up with a humane way to kill off cattle, pigs and other polluting animals.
Coming to a theater near you ...

quote:
A tax on meat would penalise the poor and have little effect on climate change.

THIS week British economist Lord Stern called for the world to get off beef and on to broccoli: go vegetarian for the planet. Methane - burped, belched and otherwise released by cows in impressive amounts - is around 20 times more potent a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.

So the author of the influential 2006 Stern Review into global warming told Britain's Times newspaper that the climate change meeting in Copenhagen would only be a success if it led to skyrocketing meat prices. Otherwise, Stern predicts, climate change will turn southern Europe into a desert and there will be ''severe global conflict''.

Stern isn't alone. Also this week, Peter Singer called for a 50 per cent tax on all meat. According to the Australian vegetarian philosopher, cows are pretty much like cigarettes: they're bad for you and smelly. They should be taxed accordingly.

<more>

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/vegetarians-meat-tax-plan-just-a-load-of-hot-air-20091031-hqqs.html
 
Posts: 8108 | Registered: Sun 01 June 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post


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quote:
Originally posted by FlankerFlyer:
Im still wondering how they are going to implement carbon caps on the other mammals in the world who dont go along with this farce?
I can see it now, the envirowhackos get together with the PETA whackos and come up with a humane way to kill off cattle, pigs and other polluting animals.


Knock off the top of the food chain.

There wouldn't be so much livestock around if there weren't so many people would there?

It seems to me that environmentally speaking nobody, the left for "choice" reasons or the right for religious reasons wants to see the proverbial elephant in the room, the simple fact that there are too many bloody people already.
 
Posts: 4053 | Registered: Sat 14 February 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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THIS week British economist Lord Stern called for the world to get off beef and on to broccoli: go vegetarian for the planet. Methane - burped, belched and otherwise released by cows in impressive amounts - is around 20 times more potent a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.



Apparently these vegetarians run fast when they pass gas. Have you ever been around a strict vegetarian? My God, they could power a small community all by themselves. Eek

quote:

Stern isn't alone. Also this week, Peter Singer called for a 50 per cent tax on all meat. According to the Australian vegetarian philosopher, cows are pretty much like cigarettes: they're bad for you and smelly. They should be taxed accordingly.


Doesnt matter that certain proteins and other nutrients cannot be produced by plants and MEAT IS THE ONLY SOURCE of these essential proteins. Peter Singer doesnt smell so good himself as he is also a proponent of taking fewer showers, recycling your own waste water and crap like that.
Where do these nut jobs come from??? NeoMarxists plain and simple.
 
Posts: 5794 | Registered: Sun 30 April 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Science alone is powerful ... history alone is powerful .. science and history together are 100X potent.

That's why Jared Diamond's Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed, makes a compelling case.
quote:
Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed
Reviewed by Lieutenant Colonel Robert M. Cassidy,
Battalion Commander, 3d US Army/CFLCC, Special Troops Battalion.


Collapse is essentially a sequel to Jared Diamond’s previous Pulitzer-Prize winning Guns, Germs, and Steel. In Guns, Diamond created a masterful narrative of the historical evolution of human civilization, synthesizing anthropology, geography, geology, and sociology into one lucid book.

Collapse is its logical successor, and it draws from the work in Guns to explain how past civilizations collapsed, applying the factors that helped precipitate those collapses, including the current challenges engendered by globalization, finite resources, and population growth.

Collapse offers testimony to how cultural values and preferences can catastrophically influence the decisions and behavior of nations facing the challenges of climatic change, population growth, fragile environments, and changes in warfare.

Diamond also asserts that religious values often contribute to disastrous behavior because they are so deeply held and slow to change. The Norse civilization on Greenland, as an example, failed in part because its embedded cultural and religious predilections did not make it amenable to adaptation and innovation within the context of the harsh arctic environment.

The chapter on China is extremely relevant because it offers insight on the behavior and sustainability of our only emerging peer, a potential military adversary, and a rapidly increasing competitor for finite global resources.

A final caveat in this book is that globalization now essentially makes it impossible for any society to collapse in isolation. Afghanistan and Somalia offer glaring examples, and for the first time in history, the possibility of a global decline exists.
Needless to say, this forum's far-right "killer bees" will be quick to shout that "Diamond's a moron" ... "LtCol Cassidy's review of Collapse is moronic" ... usmc_family is a moron for posting Cassidy's review ...

Pretty much *everyone* is a moron who reads military history, respects science, and disagrees with far-right dogma.

According to the far-right's killer bees, that is.
 
Posts: 6689 | Registered: Mon 30 August 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by usmc_family:
Science alone is powerful ... history alone is powerful .. science and history together are 100X potent.

That's why Jared Diamond's Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed, makes a compelling case.[QUOTE]Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed
Reviewed by Lieutenant Colonel Robert M. Cassidy,
Battalion Commander, 3d US Army/CFLCC, Special Troops Battalion.


Collapse is essentially a sequel to Jared Diamond’s previous Pulitzer-Prize winning Guns, Germs, and Steel. In Guns, Diamond created a masterful narrative of the historical evolution of human civilization, synthesizing anthropology, geography, geology, and sociology into one lucid book.

Collapse is its logical successor, and it draws from the work in Guns to explain how past civilizations collapsed, applying the factors that helped precipitate those collapses, including the current challenges engendered by globalization, finite resources, and population growth.

Collapse offers testimony to how cultural values and preferences can catastrophically influence the decisions and behavior of nations facing the challenges of climatic change, population growth, fragile environments, and changes in warfare.

Diamond also asserts that religious values often contribute to disastrous behavior because they are so deeply held and slow to change. The Norse civilization on Greenland, as an example, failed in part because its embedded cultural and religious predilections did not make it amenable to adaptation and innovation within the context of the harsh arctic environment.

The chapter on China is extremely relevant because it offers insight on the behavior and sustainability of our only emerging peer, a potential military adversary, and a rapidly increasing competitor for finite global resources.

A final caveat in this book is that globalization now essentially makes it impossible for any society to collapse in isolation. Afghanistan and Somalia offer glaring examples, and for the first time in history, the possibility of a global decline exists.
Needless to say, this forum's far-right "killer bees" will be quick to shout that "Diamond's a moron" ... "LtCol Cassidy's review of Collapse is moronic" ... usmc_family is a moron for posting Cassidy's review ...

Pretty much *everyone* is a moron who reads military history, respects science, and disagrees with far-right dogma.

According to the far-right's killer bees, that is.[/QUOTE/]

usmc_family,

Thanks for all of your quotes, research,and references.

You should be ashamed of yourself for "reading military history, respecting science, and disagreeing with far right dogma", LOL. Amazing isn't it, that the best way for the far, far right to challenge is to simply embrace denial.

"Global Warming is a farce. Who cares if the Multiyear Arctic Ice has essentially vanished, that sea levels are rising, that Global Warming predictions (consequences) have consistently been of the low side, etc." After all, it is only the earth and mankind to be concerned with. Better to play ostrich and ignore reality.

Once again, super posts, and kudos to you.

Jack
 
Posts: 285 | Registered: Fri 21 March 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Gotta take some more of that artic ice, don't have enough for my martini!

Frisco
 
Posts: 3069 | Registered: Fri 22 December 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Hey, I've figured out how to get San Fran Nan out of Congress, we speed up Global Warming and we put SF underwater!

Time to paint my roof black and buy a SUV to drive!

Who's with me? Big Grin
 
Posts: 5444 | Registered: Sun 07 March 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Actually, conservatives are very interested in science. Seems libs are quick to jump on the supersticion bandwagon of the false prophet Algore.

There the religious goreists sit with their utterly failed climate models insisting that we buy into their preposterous rationalizations. No, we'd onlt be Luddites if we accepted the gorean irrational "spinning".

Oh, Arctic Sea Ice : ""http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/18/arctic-ice-thickness-measured-from-buoys/
 
Posts: 12281 | Registered: Mon 27 January 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Originally posted by usmc_family:
usmc_family is a moron for posting Cassidy's review ...


The simple truth is you don't need to post anything from anyone to demonstrate that point Big Grin
 
Posts: 7692 | Registered: Wed 03 January 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Global warming opens new Arctic shipping lane
"http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/1015/p11s01-wogi.html"

Two German freighters have slipped quietly into Rotterdam Harbor after completing a historic month-long journey from Vladivostok, in Russia's Pacific far east, through the once-impassable Arctic route.

The Bremen-based company that operates the two specially reinforced cargo ships, the Beluga Fraternity and the Beluga Foresight, that made the journey said that taking the new route saved 10 days and $300,000 per ship over the usual 11,000 nautical-mile voyage through the Indian Ocean, the Suez Canal, and the Mediterranean in order to reach the North Atlantic.

"We are all very proud and delighted to be the first Western shipping company which has successfully transited the legendary Northeast Passage," the Beluga company said in a statement. It plans to begin using the route on a regular basis.

The bad news, scientists say, is that the feat only became possible because the Arctic icecap is retreating at an alarming rate.
Peter3_1, just exactly *how* did Al Gore fool the captains of Beluga Fraternity and Beluga Foresight into magically sailing their ships across the Arctic Ocean?

Or ... maybe the far-right is wrong ... and the melt is really happening?

And if the far-right is so absolutely dead-wrong about planetary ecology ... maybe we can't trust the far-right ... about anything at all?
 
Posts: 6689 | Registered: Mon 30 August 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Another communist theory post by Family. As I read his post Im trying to figure out what current energy sources are finite then I remembered that sometime in the next few m(b)illion years our sun may *fizzle* out leaving us all in the dark forever. Im sure he didnt mean our current hundred year supply of natural gas with only 20% of all sources explored, or our 200 year supply of crude oil with only 40% of all *areas* explored. Saudi Arabia will be able to supply oil until 2150, for example and the arctic has more *oil* than all previous discoveries *combined* to date.
Of course there is *enough* uranium to supply electricity globally for thousands of years if our envirowackos would only let us build them.

Im also wondering how a smaller than 5% area sampled by these(sic)scientists can represent the *entire* arctic circle. could it be that the *ICE* kept them from going other places???

As far as this "book" is concerned, its just one person's very LIBERAL opinion.
 
Posts: 5794 | Registered: Sun 30 April 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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We are all very proud and delighted to be the first Western shipping company which has successfully transited the legendary Northeast Passage



it wouldnt be legendary if people hadnt already done it before many, many years ago!
Say, like the *LAST* time it was open back between 1000-1300 during the last global warming period commonly referred to as the Medieval *Warm* Period.
It was open as well during the last *inter-glacial* period 120,000 years ago but then there were no people screaming about global warming when CO2 levels were 6 times as high as now and arctic temperatures were 3 degrees Centigrade *HIGHER* than they are now. They were probably glad they didnt need modern HVAC!
But hey Family, dont let those annoying *FACTS* get in the way of a good global warming hysteria rant. Smile Smile Smile
 
Posts: 5794 | Registered: Sun 30 April 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Originally posted by FlankerFlyer:
quote:
We are all very proud and delighted to be the first Western shipping company which has successfully transited the legendary Northeast Passage
it wouldnt be legendary if people hadnt already done it before many, many years ago! Say, like the *LAST* time it was open back between 1000-1300 during the last global warming period commonly referred to as the Medieval *Warm* Period. It was open as well during the last *inter-glacial* period 120,000 years ago but then there were no people screaming about global warming when CO2 levels were 6 times as high as now and arctic temperatures were 3 degrees Centigrade *HIGHER* than they are now. They were probably glad they didnt need modern HVAC! But hey Family, dont let those annoying *FACTS* get in the way of a good global warming hysteria rant. Smile Smile Smile
All who wish to fact-check the above post---no facts were detected in it--can do so here:

Ice and History
"http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/311/5768/1673"
 
Posts: 6689 | Registered: Mon 30 August 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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All who care to fact-check the above post, can do so here:

Ice and History
"http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/sci;311/5768/1673"



another OPINION site by 2 guys who are EDITORS for a magazine, big deal. I can post articles as well but by not doing so I save myself and others hours of headaches from not having to read about how *your* sources are better than ours and how you are right and we are wrong.
 
Posts: 5794 | Registered: Sun 30 April 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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