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Originally posted by GVman:
Anyone that thinks that an oficer should tell the truth about how a soldier is killed never had to sign a condolence letter. First, just because its the truth, you don't tell a next of kin that their son was an idiot or incompetent or anything of the sort. They were there attempting to do a very hard and undesirable job for this country,and as such should be declared a hero for their effort. And, just because they were KIA by friendly fire doesn't mean that they weren't actually doing acts that made them a bonified hero, deserving the silver star that Tillman was awarded. There isn't a conspiracy behind every tree. There are only people trying to tell a parent that their son was killed without diminishing the vision of what they want of their loved one. If you beheaded all the officers in the Army, the Tillman family would not be satisfied. Also all the noise from our congress is just playing politcal football with our memory of a real hero

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Originally posted by rayevinsonsr:
First, three shots 10 feet away, and the last and newly found information by the Chaplain saying O'Neal was harshly admonished by Tillman for being sniveling (coward). Which is correct?

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Originally posted by armywifefigueroa:
I can't help but notice how it keeps being mentioned that the gun shots to his head were "untold" in previous reports. That is totally untrue. In a report that came out in September 2005 link
it clearly states that "The soldier continued, “I then looked over at my side to see a river of blood coming down from where he [Tillman] was … I saw his head was gone.”"

In all of the reports since the incident, it has clearly stated that he was killed by three shots to the head. No one knows exactly how far away the "shooter" was. All the coroner could rule out was that it WASN'T ANY CLOSER THAN 10 YARDS.

It's a damn shame that this happened and it's even more of a shame that there was a cover-up, but I think people are looking too far into it to try and justify it in their own minds. The question that should be on everyone's mind is where does his brother fit into all of this... they were in the same platoon... I won't make any accusations/judgements because I wasn't there, but the brother is the one looking suspicious to me.

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Originally posted by Jonathan_Pollard:
According to former Republican congressman Curt Weldon, Pat Tillman's uniform was deliberately destroyed by burning. A good reason to do that would have been to destroy any evidence of close-range powder burns on the uniform.

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=2006040121555593

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Originally posted by Williams101:

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Originally posted by rayevinsonsr:
First, three shots 10 feet away, and the last and newly found information by the Chaplain saying O'Neal was harshly admonished by Tillman for being sniveling (coward). Which is correct?

Multiple medical examiners saying they saw three closely-spaced bullet holes in the forehead seems more reliable than one Spc.'s memory of what happened in the field, especially since the article says O'Neal admits to having been under stress, and since it says he gave a different account to the investigators than he gave to the chaplain.

Quote from the article (note that "doctors" is plural):
"The doctors - whose names were blacked out - said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away."

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Originally posted by oldgoat49:
I think it is sad that people want to sweep this under rug. If in fact Tillman was murdered and it was covered up then every effort should be made to find out who did it and why it was covered up.

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Originally posted by T_TGrowler:

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Originally posted by oldgoat49:
I think it is sad that people want to sweep this under rug. If in fact Tillman was murdered and it was covered up then every effort should be made to find out who did it and why it was covered up.

Agreed,I do not see this being swept under the rug at all! This seems to be an assination or the biggest fluke Fratricide ever! none of it adds up.

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Originally posted by GVman:
Anyone that thinks that an oficer should tell the truth about how a soldier is killed never had to sign a condolence letter.

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Originally posted by BillingsJT:

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Originally posted by GVman:
Anyone that thinks that an oficer should tell the truth about how a soldier is killed never had to sign a condolence letter.

Nonsense. No family who has sacrificed a loved one deserves to be lied to, espcially by the government. And I have delivered casualty notifications. To knowingly tell an untruth is a stain on any officer's honor.

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Originally posted by Well_Seasoned:

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Originally posted by BillingsJT:

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Originally posted by GVman:
Anyone that thinks that an oficer should tell the truth about how a soldier is killed never had to sign a condolence letter.

Nonsense. No family who has sacrificed a loved one deserves to be lied to, espcially by the government. And I have delivered casualty notifications. To knowingly tell an untruth is a stain on any officer's honor.

To knowingly tell an "untruth" is a stain ... I'll give you that. To not tell the unvarnished truth in my view is not. I certainly didn't write the parents of a soldier I had die in Korea after getting drunk and drowning in his own puke and tell them that. If they want that level of "truth", they can request and read the autopsy report and CID report.

I submit that what to tell, when to tell, and how to tell is a difficult and agonizing decision ... regulations or no regulations. And I've been there, worn the T-shirt as both teller and writer a number of times.

In this case, I can understand though not condone Kensinger not telling the family just before, during, or immediately after the memorial service. I can't understand or condone his lying about when he knew that it was a probable fratricide.

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Completely agree. There is a time for details. Some families want to know, others don't. Those who ask should be told the truth. To me, there is a big difference between omitting gory details and fabricating a falsehood about a glorious battle death.

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Originally posted by oldgoat49:
I think it is sad that people want to sweep this under rug. If in fact Tillman was murdered and it was covered up then every effort should be made to find out who did it and why it was covered up.

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Now, bless their black little hearts, the media and lawmakers are stealing the best part of Pat Tillman and the thirty young men.

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Originally posted by Well_Seasoned:

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Originally posted by Jonathan_Pollard:
According to former Republican congressman Curt Weldon, Pat Tillman's uniform was deliberately destroyed by burning. A good reason to do that would have been to destroy any evidence of close-range powder burns on the uniform.

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=2006040121555593

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Originally posted by RCcav:
Here is a thought from the perspective of a soldier that may die from friendly fire:

If you were in Tillman's place, what would you want reported to your family? Personally, I would rather my family believe I died as a result of enemy fire rather than be given the knowledge that I died as a result of accidental friendly fire. I believe they would be more at peace thinking my death was justifiable. If it was malicious friendly fire (such as fragging from subordinates), it would be a different story. I believe that would warrant a full investigation and the family would need to be informed of the exact cause of death.

In this case, I believe, from the reports I have read, Tillman's death was a tragic accident, but all parties were acting in an appropriate manner given the information they had at the time of the battle (an unfortunate side effect of the fog of war-which we try to minimize with training and new technology). I also believe Tillman still deserves the medal he recieved because his actions were no less heroic just because the fire his team was recieving was from friendly forces.

Is it possible the chain of command was just trying to preserve the family's image of their son and give them some peace, what little they could get, from his death? I am certain this type of thing has happened in the past and the senior officers were probably just acting on some unwritten SOP. I have nothing solid on which to base this opinion, but it would not surprise me if this were the case.

Obviously, once an investigation into the incident was started, people need to be truthful to the investigating officer. I also believe if Tillman was not so famous, the investigation would have never occurred.

Now, most will say that I am way off base with my opinion, but as a soldier who is about to deploy to Iraq, if I die in a friendly fire incident, I would rather my wife and kids never find out about it. Unfortunately, now that there is such focus on each death, that will never happen. As an officer, I now realize that any death must be reported in minute detail to the families, no matter how much additional pain it will cause them.

Again, just one man's opinion.

SCOUTS OUT!