A Sikh civil rights and advocacy group is asking the Pentagon to drop its requirement that Sikh men doff their turbans and cut their beards and hair in order to serve in the military.

The Sikh Coalition is taking on the cause of two commissioned officers who are now in their last year of medical and dental school and slated to enter the Army's Officers' Leadership Basic Course in July.

Capt. Kamaljeet S. Kalsi and 2nd Lt. Tejdeep S. Rattan, the organization says, were told by recruiters they would be able to serve with their articles of faith -- the turban and uncut hair requirements of male Sikhs. Since the men accepted their commissions, the group says, they have continued to maintain their articles of faith throughout their schooling.

Army spokesman Lt. Col. Christopher C. Garver told Military.com today that he could not comment on claims by the officers that recruiters told them they could serve wearing turbans and beards. He said that is something that would come up among the officers and their chain of command once they move from Reserve status to active duty.

More here:
http://www.military.com/news/article/sikhs-want-dod-tur...ml?col=1186032310810

This is dumb. If you are going to serve in the U.S. military then you need to go by the standards and dress code of that specific branch.

If the recruiters did tell them they could wear their turans and have beards then they need to be punished.

My question is....how did they commissioned before they even went to training? Don't you have to complete training in order to be commissioned. Or is that something the Army does?

To me that would be like being called a Marine before even going to Boot Camp, OCS, or PLC.

An Army Recruiter lied to them?


No waiiiii!!!!!

Never happen. What would happen if they were allowed to keep their beards, go to war, get gassed and have to wear their PRO mask?

My 1st PSG at Hood in 1982 was SFC Paramjit Sibia, A Sikh.

He wore A turban and beard, and had a variety for the uniform of the day

A Class "A" green one for Inspections
an OG-107 Fatigue one for Garrison duties
an ERDL one for FTX

Funny thing, he never complained about gas mask seal in the CS Chamber & those were the Old M17 Series that supposedly didnt seal as well as the new M40 Series masks.

He retired an E-9 SGM with a Turban & Beard

Damn fine Soldier

Not gonna happen.

The policy was implemented in 1981, but anyone that entered prior to that was exempt. Sikhs were allowed turbans and beards prior to that by executive order from President Eisenhower. Generally they were granted exemptions until 1999, when DoD policy changed again.

quote:

Originally posted by Anbar7:
A Sikh civil rights and advocacy group is asking the Pentagon to drop its requirement that Sikh men doff their turbans and cut their beards and hair in order to serve in the military.

The Sikh Coalition is taking on the cause of two commissioned officers who are now in their last year of medical and dental school and slated to enter the Army's Officers' Leadership Basic Course in July.

Capt. Kamaljeet S. Kalsi and 2nd Lt. Tejdeep S. Rattan, the organization says, were told by recruiters they would be able to serve with their articles of faith -- the turban and uncut hair requirements of male Sikhs. Since the men accepted their commissions, the group says, they have continued to maintain their articles of faith throughout their schooling.

Army spokesman Lt. Col. Christopher C. Garver told Military.com today that he could not comment on claims by the officers that recruiters told them they could serve wearing turbans and beards. He said that is something that would come up among the officers and their chain of command once they move from Reserve status to active duty.

More here:
http://www.military.com/news/article/sikhs-want-dod-tur...ml?col=1186032310810

Well other militaries, such as the British and Canadian Forces (Commonwealth nations' militaries), do allow their Sikh recruits to wear their Turbans and so forth, IIRC.



Perhaps it is a change that might happen in the US military later.

Send em a bill for their government funded education, and tell em to get lost.

quote:

This is dumb. If you are going to serve in the U.S. military then you need to go by the standards and dress code of that specific branch.

Right on, Anbar!

Usually religious accomodation calls are made by the Commanders. In this case, both men are going to be serving in hospitals / dental clinics, so they may be coming into severe shortage positions and the command might be more likely to go along with it. There really is no reason why a Sikh shouldn't be allowed to wear their turban as headgear, although I don't think a helmet would fit over it. Other armies have adapted to it and Sikhs have a history as fine warriors in India. I do worry that it would start a firestorm of "why does he get to wear what he wants? I want to wear my hair long too, and wear earrings, and not take a shower....." among other less mature Soldiers.

Well what about allowing anyone in the service with deep religious beliefs or strong cultural convictions to wear what they want?

arabic - keffiyeh's & burkahs
jewish - yamikas
american indian - long hair, face paint
scottish - kilts & balmoral hats

etc.....

There's a reason you're all shaved and put in the same uniform from day one. You're a part of a team, no individuals. Makes for good order and discipline.

quote:

Originally posted by AKinNC:
Usually religious accomodation calls are made by the Commanders. In this case, both men are going to be serving in hospitals / dental clinics, so they may be coming into severe shortage positions and the command might be more likely to go along with it. There really is no reason why a Sikh shouldn't be allowed to wear their turban as headgear, although I don't think a helmet would fit over it. Other armies have adapted to it and Sikhs have a history as fine warriors in India. I do worry that it would start a firestorm of "why does he get to wear what he wants? I want to wear my hair long too, and wear earrings, and not take a shower....." among other less mature Soldiers.

If they are to be in hospitals and dentist offices, I do not want them to have a beard. Not sanitary and against medical code...or you wear the beard cap.

quote:

Originally posted by nspreitler:
The policy was implemented in 1981, but anyone that entered prior to that was exempt. Sikhs were allowed turbans and beards prior to that by executive order from President Eisenhower. Generally they were granted exemptions until 1999, when DoD policy changed again.

O.K., next question, why was the long standing policy dropped?...
Anyone know?...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

quote:

Originally posted by Echofixer:
Well what about allowing anyone in the service with deep religious beliefs or strong cultural convictions to wear what they want?

arabic - keffiyeh's & burkahs
jewish - yamikas
american indian - long hair, face paint
scottish - kilts & balmoral hats

etc.....

There's a reason you're all shaved and put in the same uniform from day one. You're a part of a team, no individuals. Makes for good order and discipline.

The LDS are permitted to wear their "garments" and they, the LDS, have adapted their "garments" to conform with the color standards for military uniforms and styles...
So what's the big deal here?...
When on active duty, I saw Jewish members of the Navy wearing yamulkas[sp?] and there is or was special "kosher" rations available and when I was in the CARNG, it was possible to order "kosher" MREs...
So what is the really big deal with this?...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

quote:

Originally posted by Echofixer:
Well what about allowing anyone in the service with deep religious beliefs or strong cultural convictions to wear what they want?

arabic - keffiyeh's & burkahs
jewish - yamikas
american indian - long hair, face paint
scottish - kilts & balmoral hats

etc.....

There's a reason you're all shaved and put in the same uniform from day one. You're a part of a team, no individuals. Makes for good order and discipline.

That, and the practical problems like wearing a protective mask and personal hygiene are the reasons why I've always been told (and agreed with) that beards were not allowed.

I would be very curious to hear how the Brits & Canadians have made it work.

quote:

Originally posted by Motive25:

quote:

Originally posted by Echofixer:
Well what about allowing anyone in the service with deep religious beliefs or strong cultural convictions to wear what they want?

arabic - keffiyeh's & burkahs
jewish - yamikas
american indian - long hair, face paint
scottish - kilts & balmoral hats

etc.....

There's a reason you're all shaved and put in the same uniform from day one. You're a part of a team, no individuals. Makes for good order and discipline.

That, and the practical problems like wearing a protective mask and personal hygiene are the reasons why I've always been told (and agreed with) that beards were not allowed.

I would be very curious to hear how the Brits & Canadians have made it work.

When the Navy had the grooming standards that permitted beards and mustaches, you could have what you wanted, as long as it didn't interfere with your duty requirements and was within the grooming standards set forth in Navy regulations...
I knew pilots that had beards and mustaches and they had to keep the beards and "staches" trimmed so as to permit an "air tight" fit on their oxygen masks...
The same with DC party members, couldn't interfere with the fit of an OBA...
What's the problem?...
Much ado about nothing, it would seem...
IMHO...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

quote:

Originally posted by Echofixer:
Well what about allowing anyone in the service with deep religious beliefs or strong cultural convictions to wear what they want?

arabic - keffiyeh's & burkahs
jewish - yamikas
american indian - long hair, face paint
scottish - kilts & balmoral hats

etc.....

There's a reason you're all shaved and put in the same uniform from day one. You're a part of a team, no individuals. Makes for good order and discipline.

First off, American Indians didnt wear Face Paint on a daily basis, But if you get your info from watching westerns on TV thats what you'll think.

Secondly, I have seen Jewish Soldiers in Uniform wearing Yamulkes and most of the time you wouldnt even know it as it fits under their Headgear. There is even an ACU pattern one for Rabbi's with an NSN and everything.

There is a Orthodox Rabbi who served in Afghanistan, Iraq, GITMO & the First Gulf war, Grenada & in Bosnia who wears a snow white beard. I watched him tending to people down at the World Trade Center on 9-11. He walked a MOUT Live Fire Excercise with My Squad.





COL. Jacob Goldstein

XXXhttp://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002/04/18/rabbi.htmXXX

I've also had a Muslim Fire Team Leader who wore his skullcap under his Helmet in Iraq

A silk turban might have some better anti-ballistic qualities than a kevlar helmet.

I was told that, in World War 2, Indian troops wore a steel skull cap under their turbans.

quote:

Originally posted by popsiq:
A silk turban might have some better anti-ballistic qualities than a kevlar helmet.

I was told that, in World War 2, Indian troops wore a steel skull cap under their turbans.

I can't recall hearing that one but there's lot's of (possibly apocryphal) stories about turbans stopping bullets from both wars and there's verifiable accounts of them stopping shrapnel including an RAF pilot who landed his Hurricane to discover a large chunk of Me 109 shell casing sticking out of the side of his head.



I really think that I should point out that the turban itself is not an absolute requirement for orthodox Sikhs but uncut hair is and is Kesh one of the "Five Ks" that all adult males are expected to retain. The others being Kanga the comb required to care for Kesh, Kara an iron bracelet, Kahera basically cotton shorts comfy for fighting in (and possibly the origin of the English slang kecks meaning underpants) and Kirpan a shortsword or dagger (often vestigial in polite company).

The above are as much a part of being Sikh as halal food is for Muslims or eating Kosher and chopping the end off one's wotsit is for Jews or having the right to proselytise tediously and irritatingly is to certain types of Christian sects (why can't they take, "No I don't want a copy of bloody Watchtower and if you don't sod off now my black pudding will be burnt," for an answer?).
Obviously there is a get out clause and like halal, kosher and working on Saturday (never stopped the IDF has it?) a Sikh may shave in the very, very direst emergencies - they did early on in the trenches before gas masks were adapted - but only when there's no other reasonable option (the last human Guru of the Sikhs was pretty clear on this). As there is a reasonable option, at least for training purposes and probably for most deployments (if they can pass the CS test who cares?) I cannot see why the US can't adopt to Sikh dress requirements as readily as it does to Jewish and Muslim dietary requirements or the foibles of vegetarians. In fact compared with some religious requirements they're fairly low maintenance and the turban looks at least as smart as those ridiculous berets you've adopted.


(It's been conveyed to me by a Sikh mate that the turban itself may be swapped for some other means of covering the hair tidily if necessary (such as when fitting it under a helmet) but the turban is such a practical garment most don't bother. Examples are head scarves or bandanna type things as worn by the Monty Pannesar a Sikh who plays cricket for England.)


Edit: By the way it has been alleged (in another place) that the practice of kesh marks Sikhs as unhygienic along with Muslims and Hindus.
In actual fact regular washing is an important part of all three of those religions and always has been. Amusingly of the major religions historically the one that has had the biggest problem with cleanliness has been Christianity, with the churches occasionally preaching against too much of an interest in bathing on the grounds that it encouraged carnality. The Templars even went so far as to have rules forbidding not just bathing but also changing one's undergarments (and they wore sheepskin pants). The buggers must have stunk.