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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events In the News FLDS leader Jeffs called "perfect", photos show him with 12 y/o "wife"|
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suspended 10 days disruptive posting personal attacks 19 Jan 08 MD |
What would you say if you knew of a 12 year-old girl forced into a sexual relationship with a 50 year-old man? Call the police? Report the case to Child Protective Services?
Not in the case of the FLDS polygamous sext in Texas, who preserved this proud moment in a photo album seized in last month's raid on the "Yearning for Zion" ranch. Photos of Jeffs with his barely 12 year-old bride can be seen here: http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9361767 Please note: the face of the girl, identified in court by her brother as Merrianne Jessop, daughter of sect leader Merril Jessop, has been blurred by the newspaper staff, who are trying to protect the privacy of a child victim of possible rape. SAN ANGELO, Texas - A single photograph introduced in court Friday could define Texas' case against a polygamous sect: FLDS leader Warren S. Jeffs cradling a 12-year-old girl in his arms and kissing her, a state attorney said, "how a husband would kiss a wife." The photo was introduced in a custody hearing for an infant born nearly two weeks ago to Louisa Bradshaw Jessop, whose two older children were taken into state care during an April raid on the sect's YFZ Ranch in west Texas. The court-approved raid, which removed more than 450 children, was based on the state's belief that young girls were being wed to older men and that boys were being groomed to continue the practice. A hearing on whether to extend state custody of an infant born to Louisa and Dan Jessop on May 12 continues before 51st District Judge Barbara Walther on Tuesday. Louisa Bradshaw Jessop, 22, spent two hours on the witness stand in San Angelo. She gave halting answers to questions from state attorney Ellen Griffith about how long she had been at the ranch, who shares the building where she lives, and whether she had known about any inappropriate relationships there. Jessop often simply responded, "I don't know" or, "I can't remember right now." She offered little information about her father-in-law, Merrill Jessop, or his wife Barbara. Asked whom she had seen at the two-story home shared by her in-laws, Louisa responded, "I saw me." Jeffs, the sect's leader, presided over her 2003 marriage at age 17 to Dan Jessop. Louisa Jessop was shown photos of Jeffs kissing young girls, at least one of whom is one of Merrill Jessop's daughters, and said she did not know if they were married. She said she thought the behavior was inappropriate. In FLDS culture, a man can have physical contact with a female only if they are married. There was no discussion on whether sexual intimacy occurred. Griffith asked if she knew why Jeffs was in prison and she responded, "For unjust causes as far as I'm concerned," and added that Jeffs "is perfect to me." Randal Stout, who represents her infant, got her to agree that living in a home where underage mothers also reside might be seen as failing to protect her own children. Louisa Jessop broke down when Lexie Wiley, her attorney, asked about being separated from her children and said the state had changed her status from disputed minor to adult "about the second" her baby was born. Louisa said she would abide by Texas law as far as her own children's marriages. When Louisa's husband, Dan Jessop, took the stand, state attorney Eric Tai showed him the photo of Jeffs kissing the young girl - his sister - and asked what he thought of it. "I think there's everything wrong with that," he said. "It's against my religion and against my beliefs." Asked if he thought the scene amounted to sexual abuse, Jessop said, "I do not consider a girl kissing a man sexual abuse." Tai asked Jessop if his sister was married to Jeffs, who was convicted in Utah this year of being an accomplice to rape for performing a marriage between a 14-year-old FLDS girl and her 19-year-old cousin. Jessop said he did not know. "Seeing an image like that, what do you think?" Tai asked. "It seems a little wild to me," Jessop answered, "but you see a lot more wild things than that driving down the streets of the city." Griffith would not divulge the origin of the photos, but provided the court with a 2003 bishop's record that included a birth date indicating the girl was 12 at the time - July 27, 2006 - a month before Jeffs was arrested in Nevada after being on the lam for nearly two years. Rod Parker, an FLDS spokesman, called the state's use of the photographs of Jeffs a "gratuitous publicity stunt by CPS which doesn't go to the issue at court, which is whether a baby is in immediate danger by what someone else did." So, are you following this? Texas CPS submits photos to the court of Warren Jeffs in a deep kiss with a child. The child's brother, Rulon Daniel Jessop identifies the girl as his sister Merrianne, and doesn't dispute the authenticity of the photo. The court asks if the young girl is married to Warren Jeffs. Rulon Daniel says he doesn't know. The court asks Rulon Jessop's wife Louisa if the child, her sister-in-law, is married to Jeffs. She says she doesn't know, but added that Warren Jeffs "is perfect to me." So ... obviously these people don't think there is anything wrong/immoral/illegal about a 12 year-old-girl given in "spiritual marriage" to a man more than 50 years old! Is it any wonder that most of these people aren't going to get their children back any time soon? This message has been edited. Last edited by: Arielski, |
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Banned by admin |
yea thats pretty sick... i remember when i was working with the Renaissance Festival down here and there was an 50-60 year old man with a 16year old wife.. i was like man thats sucks raising your kids here living in tents... the guy that i was with who traveled with them said thats not his daughter but his wife and said that was quite common here.... i was wow thats sick.... he said all of these younger girls you see here are married to much older men...
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A Proud 30+ yr. Warrant |
All those perverted sick ****s
 Been there, Done that and I have the shots to prove it. |
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Super Member |
Anyone already notice that he was in the slammer for it?...
Just curious... Respectfully, SUNLINER81 |
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Member |
This is a weird case. But taking 450 kids from their parents seems extreme. I don't know what to think.
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suspended 10 days disruptive posting personal attacks 19 Jan 08 MD |
Sun, Jeffs isn't in prison for this case, but for arranging the marriage of 14 y/o Elissa Wall to her 19 y/o first cousin. The point is, Jeffs' followers (including those who are trying to get their kids back) don't think he's done anything wrong. They think Jeffs is "perfect". Does this mean the Texas FLDS don't think there is anything wrong with the marriage of a 12y/o to a man in his 50's? I think that IS what it means. You are free to disagree, and of course you will. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Arielski, |
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Super Member |
Doesn't matter what he's in the slammer on, it's important that the scum is in the slammer and will be for sometime. As far as what they believe about Jeffs, that doesn't mean they are abusing their kids. The locals went in with a "shot gun " approach, which was illegal and it looks like it will bite them square on the butt for it. I didn't and never have said, that some of those kids weren't in danger, what I have said all along, is that how the judge and the local Child Protective Services went about it, was wrong. This is one big mess, because of over reaction and if there was child abuse on the ranch, those involved, may walk because of the bad handling of this case. I honestly believe that this will make it to the SCOTUS, before all is said and done. The innocent people of Texas will probably wind up paying through the wallet for this and the persons, that I hold to blame, will not have a thing done to them for it... Respectfully, SUNLINER81 |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Religious experts: Polygamist sect skilled at misleading authorities
By EMILY RAMSHAW and ROBERT T. GARRETT The Dallas Morning News AUSTIN – Child welfare officials were up against a culture of secrecy, unlimited resources and sect members well-schooled in the art of misleading authorities as they tried to build their case for removing hundreds of children from a West Texas polygamist enclave, religious experts and former adherents say. Thursday's appeals court decision that many if not all of the children removed from the Yearning For Zion ranch last month must be returned to their parents highlights how difficult it is to build a child welfare case against a fundamentalist religious group, sect investigators say – particularly without a vocal victim. The 450 children remain in state custody while the Texas Supreme Court decides whether to take up the case. But the legal challenge has kindled quiet debate over whether Texas authorities should deal with polygamist groups as states such as Utah and Arizona have done: trying to win cooperation rather than raiding communities and prosecuting members en masse. "These are people who have been taught from the cradle that outsiders are bad, that government is evil, until they fear us more than they fear their abusers," said Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff. Added Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard: "Step by step, we've tried to make sure that people ... understood what the rules were, understood what we were going to prosecute and that we weren't going to condemn them just for their lifestyle." 'No reliable evidence' Leaders of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints vehemently deny misleading state officials. Lying is not part of their culture, they say – privacy is. "The record's clearly going to show what the deceptions were and who lied to whom," said sect leader Willie Jessop, referring to state investigators. CPS officials, citing the ongoing legal battle, declined to discuss specifics of the case. But in a filing to the Texas Supreme Court on Friday, lawyers for Texas' Department of Family and Protective Services said collecting evidence was extraordinarily difficult. Girls routinely switched their names and identified themselves as mothers of other women's children. Some didn't even come forward to claim their own kin. "Based on both the children's and women's repeated deceptions, lies, and misinformation, the trial court had no reliable evidence" on the identities of the children or their parents, the state's attorneys wrote. The appellate court's ruling last week centered on a general lack of evidence. For her, lying was duty This comes as no surprise to Mary Mackert, a former FLDS member who, as a child in a polygamous family, was taught that her behavior could determine whether her father ended up in jail. She is in Texas because of her interest in the children. Her mother rehearsed lies with her children: When her father spent the night at his other wives' houses? "Daddy's a traveling salesman." Why didn't the family attend the mainstream Mormon church? "Daddy's a Catholic." By the time Ms. Mackert, from Utah, was married herself – at 17, to a 50-year-old – lying was second nature. When her husband was in public with her, he would ask their children to "come to Grandpa." When Ms. Mackert took the rent check to the landlord, she referred to her husband as her father. "You didn't think of it as lying. It's your duty and your responsibility to protect those who are living the principle," Ms. Mackert said. "They're going to lie to protect their prophet, and the head of their family. They'll do anything under the banner of religion." That includes draining their resources, said Sam Brower, a Utah-based polygamist investigator and expert on the FLDS sect. Mr. Brower said that the sect's legal strategy is simply to outlast opponents – and that it has the money to do it, thanks to various successful businesses the church owns. He said the sect has brought in virtually every high-powered attorney it's ever used to tackle the West Texas case. Religious leaders also make investigators' work harder by shuttling people across state lines, Mr. Brower said. Often, he said, people of interest simply "disappear" – making something as simple as serving a subpoena incredibly costly. When investigators get too close, Mr. Brower said, sect leaders order entire families to turn in their photo albums, birth certificates and other records to be hidden or destroyed. "It's like dealing with the mob, only worse," Mr. Brower said. "Part of their culture is to create confusion." The wrong approach? Mr. Jessop called such statements "outrageous and barbaric." He said investigators have never cared to hear sect members' side of the story – relying on rumors and former adherents with agendas to guide them. "There has been such a blatant disregard for the truth," he said. "Everything's about sensation. There have been no boundaries." For many sect members, the Yearning For Zion case brings up painful memories of the 1953 raids on Short Creek – a now-renamed town on the Utah-Arizona border where more than 300 FLDS women and children were sent into foster care. They hope the West Texas case will play out like Short Creek did: After a public backlash that brought down an Arizona governor, families were eventually reunited. If it does, experts say, Texas officials can learn from Utah and Arizona, where officials have emphasized selective prosecution for child and domestic abuse, not targeting polygamy itself or going after entire communities. The two states created a safety committee made up of sect members, social workers and law enforcement officials, with monthly meetings that rotate among cities with significant polygamist populations. Mr. Goddard, the Arizona attorney general, said authorities in both states have worked closely since 2003, creating a hotline for abused youths to call and preventing FLDS leader Warren Jeffs from using the sect's trust fund and local police and government jobs "to coerce" followers to toe the line. "In the past, we were afraid to seek help and to go to the police because we were afraid that they would charge us," said Heidi Foster, a Salt Lake City mother of 12 who has been in a polygamous marriage and now helps run a support group for fundamentalist Mormon women. Texas' approach drives sect women "further underground," she said. "They're going to be more likely to try and handle it themselves and not seek help." Imminent danger cited Texas officials have portrayed their case as simply too urgent. The sect's pervasive belief in marrying off underage girls put every child there in imminent danger, they argued. A trial judge agreed, but the appellate court did not. Mr. Jessop said if sect members are ever allowed to return to the ranch, it would be a long time until they trust the government. While some kind of "cooperative" community policing model might work, he doesn't foresee sect members changing their lifestyle. "The belief of the people is that religion is not the problem, bias against religion is the problem," Mr. Jessop said. "It's a little bit like asking a Christian to give up Christianity to get their children back." http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou080525_tnt_p...ption.2a2ec24c.html# |
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Super Member |
The whole problem here, is that there are outside agitators getting involved. This whole thing started over a crank phone call and outside agitators AND the frustration of local law enforcement... This mess will consume years and tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of dollars to straighten out and the real losers are the children, who this was supposed to help to begin with... Now, this whole mess can be summed up in one phrase that has become a catch phrase and will be one used in the future in like cases and that phrase is: WHERE IS SARAH? Just like in the series Happy Days, when the Fonze jumped the tank of sharks, the phrase "jumping the shark" became the phrase for, "well that ends that series", because of a stupid premise, "WHERE IS SARAH?", will become the phrase associated with search warrants in the future and their legitimacy... Respectfully, SUNLINER81 |
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Member |
The appeal from the State about CPS over stepping their authority in removing ALL of the children was over-ruled (?terminology?) BUT, criminal investigations are still ongoing and it's pretty much already said that regardless of the civil cases, the criminal cases are held on a completely different level and the ruling has no bearing on the investigation of criminal charges. http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700229311,00.html
And just a little more insite to the above http://origin.sltrib.com/utah/ci_9361767 As to story in the thread... It concerns me the answers these women are giving when asked about Jeffs and what they know about the ranch and so on and so forth... it seems like unless the question is asked by another woman, they're programmed to say things, doesn't it? |
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Super Member |
Texas State Supreme Court orders return of children...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81 |
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Super Member |
If the children were being abused and I'm not saying that they weren't, how will the ones doing it be prosecuted now, that the Texas Supreme court said that the children must be returned and the local authorities far out stepped their authority...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81 |
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New Member |
Has no one noticed that this 12-year old looks like she is PREGNANT?!
This is just another cult run by putrid pedophiles under the facade of "freedom of religion." |
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Experienced Member |
good observation there! the girl pictured in the article was/is one of the "removed" girls at YFZ and es she just recently gave birth to a child living at YFZ. what you need to understand is we have a situation in which generations are raised under strict rules of this religion. There is nothing radically wrong with the FLDS faith in general, it simply doesn't meet the past 20 years societal norms. what we have here is a guy, warren jeffs along with a handful of close conspirators hijacked the concept and used it for personal gratification. I will be painfully blunt, I dont see a damn thing wrong with polygamy. If those involved consent to it, great, have at it. After all, we allow homosexuality for Pete's sake. Is ANYONE going to say homosexuality is somehow morally superior to polygamy? the facts will come to light that 4 men, along with W. Jeffs had sex with underage girls, but overall, most children were not at risk anymore than teen girls are at risk in inner city areas of the US. Texas would be really smart to focus on those that actually committed a crime and not victimize an entire community. |
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Member |
Actually Flank, it doesn't say this is one of the girls from the ranch... does it? and even if it was, the photo is dated from 2006... sorry but no pregnancy lasts that long. And I don't think she looks pregnant.... I think that's the way her dress folds, it's not full enough to be a pregnant belly on that small of a girl. |
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If a tree falls in a forest and lands on a politician, even if you can't hear the tree or the screams, I'll bet you'd at least hear the applause. Paul Tindale  |
Could be she just had a bit too much cake, ice cream and soda at the reception!! |
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Kinder and gentler... |
Bunch of fuggin freaks if you ask me.
Can anybody say Waco? Or Whacko?  |
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Super Member |
Yeah, the local sheriff, that's why they went in with APC's and overkill. Not every situation is the same. That's part of what happened at Eldorado, overkill, based on lies and outside agitation... Respectfully, SUNLINER81 |
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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events In the News FLDS leader Jeffs called "perfect", photos show him with 12 y/o "wife"
