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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events In the News Broken bones and possible boys molested at FLDS compound|
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Experienced Member |
Atleast 41 children have been confirmed of having had broken bones...And the possibility of the boys being molested..Which is not a far-stretch, since Warren Jeffs was accused of child molestation of boys and girls....
I can hardly understand why anyone can defend these people... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24388249/ |
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Experienced Member |
Me neither. |
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Member |
Given the inevitable male/female ratio necessary in this sort of polygamy there's always going to be a large number of surplus young males. I suppose the older males have got to get some use out of their unwanted sons and I've no doubt a bit of abuse makes them less likely to stick around when they work out that their odds of actually getting a woman their age are pretty slim. |
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Highly Experienced Member Ex-Moderator, Fired For Cause |
While I'm not inclined in the least to defend this cult, I will say that a 10% or so rate of broken bones "at some time in their lives" out of 460+ children who grew up in a rural environment is not particularly alarming.
Choose your targets ... I don't think this is one of them. There are plenty others. |
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Experienced Member |
Even for children characterized by CPS as "very young"? |
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Experienced Member |
I think it is a good target of investigation, some of these broken bones victims incidents happened when they were "very young". With the fact known of their abuse of girls and boys (very young). It is a good point in justifying further investigations not only in regards to the teen girls (forced marriage, sexually and physical abuse), but all the children male or females of all ages. Although, I would agree that perhaps some of the older children could be childhood incidents and some very young child could also be labeled as an accident...It depends on the final results on how their bones were broken and the likihood of an accident on own purpose. |
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Experienced Member |
It would seem the state is taking extraordinary measures in their attempt to create crimes where there aren't any. The children are being interrogated daily and "investigators" continue to try and convince the children that they have been abused
But yet having investigators interrogate the children daily until they have convinced the children that someone touched them somewhere is not trying to create victims? I would have thought that the dark days of the 1980s in which children were coached to say "daddy or mommy raped me" in order to win a custody battle or to exact political revenge were over. I had 4 broken bones in 4 separate incidents when i was a kid and lived in a rural area and very active as were many other kids who often have broken bones as a result. Should the state have came in and taken away everyone in town just because other kids might get hurt? |
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I'd rather be knitting. |
If they were four or younger, it might be fishy, but mothers of boys, and many girls, quickly get on a first name basis with the ER staff. The possible molestation worries me far more than the broken bones- there's a good chance that the injuries could be quite innocent. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Wonder why, in all of this, that the ages of the "molested" girls gets younger and younger, now it's the male children...
I wonder, when everything is said and done, when a truly objective look is taken. What will we really find out went on and from whom? I know some will say, that I am standing up for these "people", nothing could be farther from the truth, as any who have read my posts on other threads on this. But, I'm not willing to pull the trigger on everyone out at that ranch, till cooler heads prevail. Call it skepticism on what precipitated the "raid" on the ranch and people wanting to cover their six o'clock positions. Attorneys are now stating that if the call was a hoax, any "criminal" charges will be null and void, but "civil" charges will still hold up, the "child confiscation" will fall under "civil" actions, but then the federal government has been known to come in and file federal "criminal" charges where Constitutional rights have been stepped on. These are unpopular people, particularly Jeffs and his command structure, but the point still remains, if we allow the rights of these children and their parents to be stepped on, then what happens when ours are stepped on? No, I am not defending "child molestation and rape", I am however against mob violence and getting everyone, even those that are innocent of a crime, just to make sure we got the guilty ones... Respectfully, SUNLINER81 |
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Experienced Member |
Could have something to do with the fact that the investigation is still ongoing. I don't know what effects a hoax call could have on this case. I do know that if the police get a tip that they believe to be credibly, they have a legal and moral responsibility to act; especially when it appears that someone may be in extreme danger. "No, I am not defending "child molestation and rape", I am however against mob violence and getting everyone, even those that are innocent of a crime, just to make sure we got the guilty ones..." Nobody wants to step on bunch of people's rights, but at the same time everyone wants to see that children are not harmed. I do not see this as mob violence at all. You and I both know what the FLDS has been doing for the past years and decades. Their whole religion is based on something that is against the law. There has been a ton of evidence throughout the years against this group and no one has done a damn thing. The police might not have done a great job here, but considering the dual examples of Jonestown and Waco; I'd say they not only needed to act, but acted decently. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
First, this wasn't Jamestown or Waco, have you looked at what they built there? Second, I agree, something should have been done a long time ago. But because someone is in a religion, it doesn't mean that they, all practitioners, practice all facets of the religion. Every time, something is brought up about this group, there is immediately another, "news brief", by Texas authorities, that just coincidentally addresses that very point. Now, I understand press conferences and that these people are nutso beyond belief, but then there is the law of probabilities about the right "new discovery", just at the right time. Sorta like those that question all the "hard evidence" about why we went into Iraq, now just see this is more data on why we had to act here. Some people question the data on one action, but not the other? No, I'm not comparing Eldorado to Iraq, I'm comparing what people just accept as gospel, excuse the term here, but I hope you see what I mean. I have said it before and will say it again, if we don't question the possible abuse of these peoples rights and again not freedom of religion or that some are as guilty as sin, again excuse the term, who will question what happens to you and I, when we wind up on "the dirty end of the stick"? Just because these people wear odd clothes and anytime they say anything, some reporter or talk show host, twists what they say into something sinister, no wonder they sit like statues and shut up, anyone would, if whatever it was you said, was twisted to make you look like a total pack of idiots, not saying that in my estimation that they aren't... There is just to many "really convenient" answers to every question raised, every time... There are some people's t.v. shows I can't stand, but I watch them anyway, it's like a car wreck, you don't want to see it happen, but you can't look away. One of which is Nancy Grace, among others, she is a bomb thrower, that's how she gets her ratings and makes her living and I expect that kind of trash out of her. What is truly scary, is that everyone is acting like that and saying that they are doing it in the name of and for the children. O.K., if that's your cause and I'm not saying that it's not mine, despite what some on here may think, but we need to look at what's going on here and again, it isn't about freedom of religion or child abuse, which is a good reason to remove the kids, but it is about far, far, more and people are being "smoke screened" all in the name of the children and that's my point, nothing more or nothing less... Respectfully, SUNLINER81 |
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"might be..." and "probably.."
we are condemning on what is not even sure. can't we wait till we are sure before accusing, or convicting? |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Right now, you are hoping for way too much. If trials are to be held, where in this whole country, can these people get a fair trial? And don't say Utah or Arizona, sheezz... Respectfully, SUNLINER81 |
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Experienced Member |
The sexual molestation of boys was always on the table since Warren Jeffs, in which the government should have moved in then...
So, this new development is not unfounded or a far stretch....... |
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I agree, this type of condemation needs to go.
Until they have Proof, presumption of innocent needs to be observed.
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Highly Experienced Member |
Funny, homosexuality was always frowned upon, you might say down right homophobic in the FLDS church. Least from what I've been able to find out. That's why I've begun to question all the "convenient" "press releases". There just is something that has a very odd smell to it about all of this, too many questions and I'm not the only one asking them... Respectfully, SUNLINER81 |
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Member |
And the LEO is looking at this objectively... CPS came in and saw signs of abuse and by law had not only the right but the obligation to remove those children thought to be in danger. Some question them taking all the children, and I do as well, I think it may have been a bit extreme, but given the conditions of the dormitory style living, not individual homes and the fact that the children were in contact with all adults all day everyday was probably their reasoning to remove them all. I'm interested to see how the investigation goes as well as the information that comes up on these minors that are pregnant and now the broken bones... Don't get me wrong, broken bones as a kid is quite normal, but the same bones broken numerous times as stated in the article is a bit fishy. Regardless, I put my trust in the LEO and CPS to get to the bottom of it one way or another. If in fact the state comes up empty handed, then we can start looking at violation of rights... but until then, the evidence is piling up against the compound, not the LEO. |
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Member |
I don't know if any of you have ever known a male child who was molested,(or a female) but I have. When the child regardless of age is being asked questions there can not be any leading questions which is why the investigation will take a bit of time. You can not ask did a man touch you here (pointing to his genital area).
So questioning takes quite a bit of time. The child is scared to begin with, then he or she has strangers asking odd questions.. It is already proven that teens have been having babies... How much more proof do you need? Photos of the actual deed? Give me a break. |
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Member |
Apparently Warren didn't get that memo... |
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Highly Experienced Member |
A little bit extreme? Not every house on the ranch was a dormatory, there were and are private residences there. I understand the desire to trust law enforcement, I mean who'd you rather trust, law enforcement or the junkie down on the corner, so to speak. The point is, that there were feelings of fear and mistrust about the FLDS in that community before the raid and there were outside agitators there also. Again, I'm not standing up for the FLDS, but even you admitted, that there seems to have been "some" over reaction... Sorta like Pearl Harbor was a routine Japanese maritime safety patrol... Respectfully, SUNLINER81 |
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