Now's he against gay rights before he was for it.

Giuliani continues his conservative shift

Does he have any core values? Sheesh I mean when he was mayor of New York he bragged about being pro-gun control.

Bragged BIG TIME about being pro-abortion.

Bragged big time about being pro-gay rights.

And now he's running for President he's flip flopping on every single issues. Talk about if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen lol.

And just to contrast

The President has always been anti-abortion

The Presidnet has always bin pro-gun

The President has always been pro-family.

Thats President Bush. He's never swayed from these stances cause it would have been politically prudent. He made his choice and thats that.

Rudy on the other hand seems to sway with what ever the wind blows.

I don't see how he's flip flopping... He is Pro-gay rights, to a point. Giuliani has always been on the more moderate conservative side...

If you would have read it, it said that he was for civil unions, but thought that the new New Hampshire law took it too far, making the civil union equivalent to marriage.

Inflammatory comments regarding his "platform" aren't going to change what he has been saying, and probably will always say. Sounds like the Dems are just trying to make themselves look better...

quote:

Originally posted by armywifefigueroa:
I don't see how he's flip flopping... He is Pro-gay rights, to a point. Giuliani has always been on the more moderate conservative side...

If you would have read it, it said that he was for civil unions, but thought that the new New Hampshire law took it too far, making the civil union equivalent to marriage.

Inflammatory comments regarding his "platform" aren't going to change what he has been saying, and probably will always say. Sounds like the Dems are just trying to make themselves look better...

Why dont youtake alook at what the guys at Free Republic are saying about Rudy before assuming this is a Demcrat thing.

I mean Hello, Rudy's liberal stances are good for the Democrats. How is having a pro-choice, pro-gay rights pro-gun control liberal Republican a bad thing??? LOL Pretty much kilss the strangle hold the Christian RIght has on the Reps.

I never said that he was bad for the Dems. In fact, what I don't quite understand is why they wouldn't be whole heartedly supporting him. I mean he has a better standing on every issue than any of the Dem. candidates...

But your post and the article were not in any way praising his positions on any subject. In fact, you specifically said

quote:

Does he have any core values? Sheesh I mean when he was mayor of New York he bragged about being pro-gun control.

Bragged BIG TIME about being pro-abortion.

Bragged big time about being pro-gay rights.

And now he's running for President he's flip flopping on every single issues. Talk about if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen lol.

He hasn't flipflopped... he's had the same position on all of those subjects for YEARS.

However... in the quote above is what your first post said and yet in your recent post, you are saying that Rudy is good for the dems... so now who's flip flopping?

quote:

Originally posted by armywifefigueroa:
I never said that he was bad for the Dems. In fact, what I don't quite understand is why they wouldn't be whole heartedly supporting him. I mean he has a better standing on every issue than any of the Dem. candidates...

But your post and the article were not in any way praising his positions on any subject. In fact, you specifically said

quote:

Does he have any core values? Sheesh I mean when he was mayor of New York he bragged about being pro-gun control.

Bragged BIG TIME about being pro-abortion.

Bragged big time about being pro-gay rights.

And now he's running for President he's flip flopping on every single issues. Talk about if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen lol.

He hasn't flipflopped... he's had the same position on all of those subjects for YEARS.

However... in the quote above is what your first post said and yet in your recent post, you are saying that Rudy is good for the dems... so now who's flip flopping?

No he has flip flopped.

He was staunchly pro-gay rights. That has changed

He was staunchly pro-abortion, that has changed

He was staunchly pro-gun control. That has changed.

His stance on abortion alone has changed since he was mayor, from a man who was so pro-abortion he advocated PULIC FIANANCING of abortion. Youcant tell me he hasnt flip flopped.

If this was John Kerry people would be throwing flip flop sandals at him.

quote:

No he has flip flopped.

He was staunchly pro-gay rights. That has changed

He was staunchly pro-abortion, that has changed

He was staunchly pro-gun control. That has changed.

His stance on abortion alone has changed since he was mayor, from a man who was so pro-abortion he advocated PULIC FIANANCING of abortion. Youcant tell me he hasnt flip flopped.

If this was John Kerry people would be throwing flip flop sandals at him.

I have to agree with armywife here. his stance on these issues has been the same, BUT have changed in the specifics of what he believe. We all have core beliefs but over time, experience, education and just simple wisdom, all serve to enlighted oneself and sometimes as we get older we are more able understand why we feel certain ways about issues and life and may descover we have a bit different opinion about a subject. Doesnt mean we have flip-flopped.

He supports a womans right to choose. He always has, but wisdom and not the seeking of political favor has given him the ability to define not that while he is pro-choice, he is against partial birth abortion and now feels(having teen kids) that teens should have parental concent/notification.

He says that gays should not be discriminated against, but not given special status. He believes in civil unions but that they should not be identical/equal to marriage but that medical rights, domestic benefits like spouses be given.

You get my drift. thats not flip flopping, thats re-evaluating your beliefs and how your beliefs have evolved over time. Heck, I know I have softened and become more accepting of things I wouldnt have even 10 years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by FlankerFlyer:
I have to agree with armywife here. his stance on these issues has been the same, BUT have changed in the specifics of what he believe. We all have core beliefs but over time, experience, education and just simple wisdom, all serve to enlighted oneself and sometimes as we get older we are more able understand why we feel certain ways about issues and life and may descover we have a bit different opinion about a subject. Doesnt mean we have flip-flopped.

oh c'mon seawitch. Im certainly not a rebublican.
I would have to say Rudy is better democrat than any of the democrats running and would be able to pull many dems IF he was able to get the nomination. if my choice is hillary or rudy, its gotta be rudy. he certainly can do better than the fella there now

quote:

Originally posted by FlankerFlyer:
oh c'mon seawitch. Im certainly not a rebublican.
I would have to say Rudy is better democrat than any of the democrats running and would be able to pull many dems IF he was able to get the nomination. if my choice is hillary or rudy, its gotta be rudy. he certainly can do better than the fella there now

Guiliani has an extremely strong authoritarian streak that is scary to both true (paleo)conservatives and to liberals. The same is true of Hillary.

I wouldn't vote for either of them.

The reason I like Rudy so much is because he's neither left nor right.. he's kinda in the middle, much like I am.

Although he doesn't have military experience, I like the way he handled New York City and was especially impressed with the way he handled 9/11 and kept that city from falling apart. He lowered crime, raised employment... I mean let's face it what have any of the other candidates done from either party that shows they are strong enough to handle this country and it's issues at present time?

So he's modified his stance a little... GOOD! It shows that he's a human and that he's willing to listen to both sides and make an informed decision. Isn't that what both sides have been complaining about with Pres. Bush?
I don't care what hardcore Repubs or Dems say, I like Rudy, I like the way he handles himself, and I like the fact that he's human and not some rehearsed politician.

quote:

Originally posted by armywifefigueroa:
I don't see how he's flip flopping... He is Pro-gay rights, to a point. Giuliani has always been on the more moderate conservative side...

If you would have read it, it said that he was for civil unions, but thought that the new New Hampshire law took it too far, making the civil union equivalent to marriage.

Inflammatory comments regarding his "platform" aren't going to change what he has been saying, and probably will always say. Sounds like the Dems are just trying to make themselves look better...

quote:

Originally posted by SeaWitch1220:

quote:

Originally posted by FlankerFlyer:
I have to agree with armywife here. his stance on these issues has been the same, BUT have changed in the specifics of what he believe. We all have core beliefs but over time, experience, education and just simple wisdom, all serve to enlighted oneself and sometimes as we get older we are more able understand why we feel certain ways about issues and life and may descover we have a bit different opinion about a subject. Doesnt mean we have flip-flopped.

Priceless Chief.....LOL

Yes, this is true, people change, but you can't help but being suspect of the timing.

Rudy (and Romney) Running for political office in very liberal areas of the country, support gay rights, gun control, abortion...

Now after those races are done, they have 'changes of heart' before running for President.

And you are saying its just a fortunate coincidence that getting this particular political office means appealing to a much more conservative electorate....

S'cuse me, I might have been born at night, but it wasn't last night...

quote:

We all have core beliefs but over time, experience, education and just simple wisdom, all serve to enlighted oneself and sometimes as we get older we are more able understand why we feel certain ways about issues and life and may descover we have a bit different opinion about a subject. Doesnt mean we have flip-flopped.

thats it?? big deal... god i was thinking you were going to say he was mafia or something....

quote:

Rudy (and Romney) Running for political office in very liberal areas of the country, support gay rights, gun control, abortion...

Pardon my naive question, but then why are they Republicans?

quote:

Originally posted by OldAFcop:

quote:

Rudy (and Romney) Running for political office in very liberal areas of the country, support gay rights, gun control, abortion...

Pardon my naive question, but then why are they Republicans?

I don't think they call them republicans, they are republican lights.

Why are they Republicans? Its hard to say, maybe they thought they wouldn't get out of the democratic primary...?

Regardless, with respect to Romney/Guliani's incredibly well-timed epiphanies, you are left with three options.

1) They were lying 'back then', to gain political advantage...

2) They are lying now, to gain political advantage.

3) It pure coincidence that their change of opinion happened just before they started courting a more conservative electorate...

If you believe 3 I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you....

quote:

Originally posted by armywifefigueroa:
The reason I like Rudy so much is because he's neither left nor right.. he's kinda in the middle, much like I am.

Although he doesn't have military experience, I like the way he handled New York City and was especially impressed with the way he handled 9/11 and kept that city from falling apart. He lowered crime, raised employment... I mean let's face it what have any of the other candidates done from either party that shows they are strong enough to handle this country and it's issues at present time?

So he's modified his stance a little... GOOD! It shows that he's a human and that he's willing to listen to both sides and make an informed decision. Isn't that what both sides have been complaining about with Pres. Bush?
I don't care what hardcore Repubs or Dems say, I like Rudy, I like the way he handles himself, and I like the fact that he's human and not some rehearsed politician.

Actually he is a rehearsed politician.

He changeing his stances to appeal to his right flank. Thats why he bragged about his left wing stances on issues so he could appeal to NYC left flank.

He will say anything to get elected thats why he claimed he was at Ground Zero just as much if not MORE then the first responders.

Rudy is a straight up typical politician.

quote:

Originally posted by schmiddc:
Yes, this is true, people change, but you can't help but being suspect of the timing.

Rudy (and Romney) Running for political office in very liberal areas of the country, support gay rights, gun control, abortion...

Now after those races are done, they have 'changes of heart' before running for President.

And you are saying its just a fortunate coincidence that getting this particular political office means appealing to a much more conservative electorate....

S'cuse me, I might have been born at night, but it wasn't last night...

quote:

We all have core beliefs but over time, experience, education and just simple wisdom, all serve to enlighted oneself and sometimes as we get older we are more able understand why we feel certain ways about issues and life and may descover we have a bit different opinion about a subject. Doesnt mean we have flip-flopped.

quote:

Originally posted by OldAFcop:

quote:

Rudy (and Romney) Running for political office in very liberal areas of the country, support gay rights, gun control, abortion...

Pardon my naive question, but then why are they Republicans?

Exactly. This is the party that prided itself on having core convictions. Thatthey would not compromise their values.