Typical British with their heads up their backsides as usual. (I'm British by the way, and an ex. serviceman.
==========Just as likely you are spicing the discussion with pro-torture herbs. Are you claiming that torture would produce good intelligence and it was unintelligent for MI6 to hesitate to co-operate in his torture by colonials? are you saying that MI6 does not have scientific evidence that their chemical debriefing techniques are more productive than torture techniques? Has it occurred to you that the CIA didn't really want to capture Osama, that he was part of a bigger plan?
Why must we have to resort to torture, Hitler, Stalin were vilified by us for doing it. There are much better methods today for getting information from these scum. As for being typical British I am glad that we have still enough ethics left to condem it. In case you think I am some lefty, think again. A strong armed forces is required in this period of time and to support them we must be prepared to pay for them.
The Brits might have learned from their experience in Northern Ireland, that being a bunch of vicious bastards can turn a whole population against you. And it can even 'lose you a war.
The Nazis were taught a similar lesson some years previously.
What struck me was the fact that the CIA wasn't willing to forswear the use of torture when this happened in 1998 and 1999 ... before Mr. Bush took office, under the Clinton administration. It is no less shameful that we insisted then as quibbling about definitions now.
? He's sent enough video confessions and you can only hang a man once.
=========Please lead me to one. He expressed anger at US military female skin bared near Mecca and US diddling with other Islamic dominated countries. The video of a bearded one laughing at something wasn't OBL. He has already been convicted by US media that never questioned the propaganda that implicated him. This belief in "confessions" by the individual serves to reassure him that a trial is unnecessary----lynch him.
As well they should. Torture shouldnt be the first thing that comes to anyone's minds when the CIA is mentioned. How long do you think its going to take to clear our country's name? Have you seen the movies that are coming out? Rendition? FBI in Saudi Arabia? Reporters selling the war to the public? It is becoming evident in the media that people are not willing to forgive and forget. Good luck to the next few Democrat presidents, they're going to need it to clear up this mess.
If a tree falls in a forest and lands on a politician, even if you can't hear the tree or the screams, I'll bet you'd at least hear the applause. Paul Tindale
Torture? Please. It has been discredited as an "interrogation" tool for centuries. This just isn't PC talk. Anyone who has ever done and interrogation, I mean interviews, knows this. A good interrogator can wring the truth out of someone without using onerous methods. Those who insist that torture is the best method for obtaining information need to undergo a little friendly interrogation. As an investigator, 351B, it was fairly easy to get the information needed by simple questioning techniques and a friendly attitude. (Yes, yes, yes. I've heard all about the what if we cross the international date line and it's raining in Moscow arguments: What if a terrorist knew that a an atomic bomb was going to go off in 10 minutes and we needed to save the world!! Horsepucky!!!!! Those people have been watching waaaaay to much made for TV movies. Beating the cr@p out of someone or using the old water trick (water boarding) will only get you what you want to hear, not the truth! Need to put a spike in this once and for all!
I've said it before but Cicero pointed out that torture was an ineffective method of questioning two millennia ago. And he was a Roman so not exactly squeamish.
The writer W.E.B. Griffin writes that it was assummed that the Japs would get any military information. The Germans used pentathol--rumored to be effective. The allies responded by limiting information to troops and protecting those who knew. Sun Tzu knew all this. Likely it's been considered since we came down out of the trees. NOBLE HOUSE gives an example of British chemical debriefing. How did the UK know of "possible" torture? Could they tell US what the purpose was? Information, vengeance, punishment?
Bladensberg, you need to tell us what you mean by saying "inneffective". Having been "hooked up" to a medical device that runs voltage thru your body, I GUARANTEE you'll TALK to make them STOP!
The only question then is truthfulness. Physical torture is only necessary when information is necessary NOW. If we are talking next month, next quarter, next year, psycological interogation is just fine.
Rumor is that waterboarding was VERY VERY effective with certain desert dwellers in the recent past, and the information reliable too.
Rumor is that waterboarding was VERY VERY effective with certain desert dwellers in the recent past, and the information reliable too.
=========Rumor has it that many, many nazis are still amongst US and help spread sh-t like that. Nothing new. Sun Tzu knew. Send "spies" meant to be caught who believed the sh-t he spewed. Tzu was most attentive to not letting the enemy know. Intelligent folks don't allow those who really know be captured
Originally posted by peter3_1: Bladensberg, you need to tell us what you mean by saying "inneffective". Having been "hooked up" to a medical device that runs voltage thru your body, I GUARANTEE you'll TALK to make them STOP!
Thats just it. People will say anything to get you to stop, which means that the information can be pure BS. In fact, its quite likely to be. There are plenty of examples where murderous regimes have tortured innocent people and obtained confessions just to get the torture to end. Do we have to take the same inhumane, inept and worthless route?
Threat of torture seems to be much more efficient than the torture itself, anyway. If Bin Laden is caught, he needs to be broken and pumped for intel but torture isnt a very effective nor reliable way of doing it.
. If Bin Laden is caught, he needs to be broken and pumped for intel but torture isnt a very effective nor reliable way of doing it.
----------How about gining him a chance to tell his side of the story? Did you know about it? I don't think the rights guaranteed to the people from the US government are limited to citizens. The 5th amendment gives the right to be free from being forced to confess.
