quote:

Originally posted by Opalfire:
I have to comment on this. I use to live and work in Utah. I worked with a woman who escaped so to speak this kind of lifestyle
If consenting adults want to live like this, then OK. However, young girls are forced into marriages with much older men. This woman was
married at 13. Do you think a 13 year old girl
is going to look at a fat balding man and say.
Wow, I got to have a piece of that. She also said that they have harsh disciplinary techniques that are abusive towards children.
They have unregistered deaths, and unregistered births. They keep it they way so there isn't any evidence. Children are taken from one compound to another to set up a community. It didn't matter because all children were considered everyones children. They used teenage boys to do their labor and of course they didn't get paid. That is how they can bid cheap labor. There is incest, cousins are married to cousins and in once known incident in Utah a girl escaped, she was badly beaten because she refused to have sex with her Uncle.

My dh's family are LDS, and they have in their history polygamy. Their relative married a widow with a 14 year old daughter. One would think of him as a stepfather. Wrong. The daughter became his 'spiritual wife'. She died in childbirth after giving birth to her second son. Now, do you think that a pretty 14 year old girl dreamed of marrying her old stepfather.
It is all about choices. This is slavery, plain and simple. I don't care what religion it is. I am still amazed at how many people keep defending their rights, with no regard to the children or young girls being forced to marry 'creepy' old men. This has nothing to do with religion, this is child abuse.

quote:

Originally posted by Opalfire:
I have to comment on this. I use to live and work in Utah. I worked with a woman who escaped so to speak this kind of lifestyle
If consenting adults want to live like this, then OK. However, young girls are forced into marriages with much older men. This woman was
married at 13. Do you think a 13 year old girl
is going to look at a fat balding man and say.
Wow, I got to have a piece of that. She also said that they have harsh disciplinary techniques that are abusive towards children.
They have unregistered deaths, and unregistered births. They keep it they way so there isn't any evidence. Children are taken from one compound to another to set up a community. It didn't matter because all children were considered everyones children. They used teenage boys to do their labor and of course they didn't get paid. That is how they can bid cheap labor. There is incest, cousins are married to cousins and in once known incident in Utah a girl escaped, she was badly beaten because she refused to have sex with her Uncle.

My dh's family are LDS, and they have in their history polygamy. Their relative married a widow with a 14 year old daughter. One would think of him as a stepfather. Wrong. The daughter became his 'spiritual wife'. She died in childbirth after giving birth to her second son. Now, do you think that a pretty 14 year old girl dreamed of marrying her old stepfather.
It is all about choices. This is slavery, plain and simple. I don't care what religion it is. I am still amazed at how many people keep defending their rights, with no regard to the children or young girls being forced to marry 'creepy' old men. This has nothing to do with religion, this is child abuse.

quote:

Originally posted by Pomelesk:

quote:

Originally posted by Opalfire:
I have to comment on this. I use to live and work in Utah. I worked with a woman who escaped so to speak this kind of lifestyle
If consenting adults want to live like this, then OK. However, young girls are forced into marriages with much older men. This woman was
married at 13. Do you think a 13 year old girl
is going to look at a fat balding man and say.
Wow, I got to have a piece of that. She also said that they have harsh disciplinary techniques that are abusive towards children.
They have unregistered deaths, and unregistered births. They keep it they way so there isn't any evidence. Children are taken from one compound to another to set up a community. It didn't matter because all children were considered everyones children. They used teenage boys to do their labor and of course they didn't get paid. That is how they can bid cheap labor. There is incest, cousins are married to cousins and in once known incident in Utah a girl escaped, she was badly beaten because she refused to have sex with her Uncle.

My dh's family are LDS, and they have in their history polygamy. Their relative married a widow with a 14 year old daughter. One would think of him as a stepfather. Wrong. The daughter became his 'spiritual wife'. She died in childbirth after giving birth to her second son. Now, do you think that a pretty 14 year old girl dreamed of marrying her old stepfather.
It is all about choices. This is slavery, plain and simple. I don't care what religion it is. I am still amazed at how many people keep defending their rights, with no regard to the children or young girls being forced to marry 'creepy' old men. This has nothing to do with religion, this is child abuse.

The people who support these people and uphold their "religious rights" when nothing they have done so far, with its history is something that God would approve of at all....How they can jump over all the molested children boys and girls and forced marriages right to their religious right...Is exactly why these activities have gone on for so long.....

That is the real tragedy.

quote:

I am still amazed that you are defending these
child molesters.

quote:

Originally posted by FlankerFlyer:

(edit)... I have already on numerous occasions, pointed out that there are only 4 people that can be considered suspects of sexual misconduct with a minor and one of the suspects is the police informant himself who has been given immunity from prosecution.

quote:

Originally posted by Opalfire:
Sunliner with due respect, your comments don't make sense. The founder of the LDS Church
was Joseph Smith. He claims that he had a relevation to practice polygamy. His successor was Brigham Young, he had 40 wifes. Maybe more.
Part of the LDS Church doctrine was the practice of polygamy. For Utah to become a state they stopped the practice, probably another devine revelation. The FLDS believed the Church sold out to the government and branched off. It is a tired argument that the LDS Church hasn't practiced polygamy in years,
and it is frowned upon by the current LDS Church. If the Church finds polygamy abhorrent now, then they must feel this way about their
founders, who practiced it. They believed that this kind of life style was necessary to get to the celestrial kingdom. They believe in polygamy in the afterlife. A man can be married and sealed to one woman for time and all eternity, if she dies, he can marry again and be sealed for time and all eternity to her. So in the next life he will have 2 wives.
I am just stating facts.

I am still amazed that you are defending these
child molesters.

quote:

Originally posted by Pomelesk:

quote:

Originally posted by Opalfire:
I have to comment on this. I use to live and work in Utah. I worked with a woman who escaped so to speak this kind of lifestyle
If consenting adults want to live like this, then OK. However, young girls are forced into marriages with much older men. This woman was
married at 13. Do you think a 13 year old girl
is going to look at a fat balding man and say.
Wow, I got to have a piece of that. She also said that they have harsh disciplinary techniques that are abusive towards children.
They have unregistered deaths, and unregistered births. They keep it they way so there isn't any evidence. Children are taken from one compound to another to set up a community. It didn't matter because all children were considered everyones children. They used teenage boys to do their labor and of course they didn't get paid. That is how they can bid cheap labor. There is incest, cousins are married to cousins and in once known incident in Utah a girl escaped, she was badly beaten because she refused to have sex with her Uncle.

My dh's family are LDS, and they have in their history polygamy. Their relative married a widow with a 14 year old daughter. One would think of him as a stepfather. Wrong. The daughter became his 'spiritual wife'. She died in childbirth after giving birth to her second son. Now, do you think that a pretty 14 year old girl dreamed of marrying her old stepfather.
It is all about choices. This is slavery, plain and simple. I don't care what religion it is. I am still amazed at how many people keep defending their rights, with no regard to the children or young girls being forced to marry 'creepy' old men. This has nothing to do with religion, this is child abuse.

The people who support these people and uphold their "religious rights" when nothing they have done so far, with its history is something that God would approve of at all....How they can jump over all the molested children boys and girls and forced marriages right to their religious right...Is exactly why these activities have gone on for so long.....

That is the real tragedy.

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

quote:

Originally posted by Pomelesk:

quote:

Originally posted by Opalfire:
I have to comment on this. I use to live and work in Utah. I worked with a woman who escaped so to speak this kind of lifestyle
If consenting adults want to live like this, then OK. However, young girls are forced into marriages with much older men. This woman was
married at 13. Do you think a 13 year old girl
is going to look at a fat balding man and say.
Wow, I got to have a piece of that. She also said that they have harsh disciplinary techniques that are abusive towards children.
They have unregistered deaths, and unregistered births. They keep it they way so there isn't any evidence. Children are taken from one compound to another to set up a community. It didn't matter because all children were considered everyones children. They used teenage boys to do their labor and of course they didn't get paid. That is how they can bid cheap labor. There is incest, cousins are married to cousins and in once known incident in Utah a girl escaped, she was badly beaten because she refused to have sex with her Uncle.

My dh's family are LDS, and they have in their history polygamy. Their relative married a widow with a 14 year old daughter. One would think of him as a stepfather. Wrong. The daughter became his 'spiritual wife'. She died in childbirth after giving birth to her second son. Now, do you think that a pretty 14 year old girl dreamed of marrying her old stepfather.
It is all about choices. This is slavery, plain and simple. I don't care what religion it is. I am still amazed at how many people keep defending their rights, with no regard to the children or young girls being forced to marry 'creepy' old men. This has nothing to do with religion, this is child abuse.

The people who support these people and uphold their "religious rights" when nothing they have done so far, with its history is something that God would approve of at all....How they can jump over all the molested children boys and girls and forced marriages right to their religious right...Is exactly why these activities have gone on for so long.....

That is the real tragedy.

It's not about religious rights and never has been, it's about Constitutional guarantees about "undue search and seizure", what part of that can't you grasp?
So, from now on since people can't grasp what it is REALLY all about, I'm going to continuously ask, "WHERE IS SARAH?"...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

quote:

Originally posted by Pomelesk:

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

quote:

Originally posted by Pomelesk:

quote:

Originally posted by Opalfire:
I have to comment on this. I use to live and work in Utah. I worked with a woman who escaped so to speak this kind of lifestyle
If consenting adults want to live like this, then OK. However, young girls are forced into marriages with much older men. This woman was
married at 13. Do you think a 13 year old girl
is going to look at a fat balding man and say.
Wow, I got to have a piece of that. She also said that they have harsh disciplinary techniques that are abusive towards children.
They have unregistered deaths, and unregistered births. They keep it they way so there isn't any evidence. Children are taken from one compound to another to set up a community. It didn't matter because all children were considered everyones children. They used teenage boys to do their labor and of course they didn't get paid. That is how they can bid cheap labor. There is incest, cousins are married to cousins and in once known incident in Utah a girl escaped, she was badly beaten because she refused to have sex with her Uncle.

My dh's family are LDS, and they have in their history polygamy. Their relative married a widow with a 14 year old daughter. One would think of him as a stepfather. Wrong. The daughter became his 'spiritual wife'. She died in childbirth after giving birth to her second son. Now, do you think that a pretty 14 year old girl dreamed of marrying her old stepfather.
It is all about choices. This is slavery, plain and simple. I don't care what religion it is. I am still amazed at how many people keep defending their rights, with no regard to the children or young girls being forced to marry 'creepy' old men. This has nothing to do with religion, this is child abuse.

The people who support these people and uphold their "religious rights" when nothing they have done so far, with its history is something that God would approve of at all....How they can jump over all the molested children boys and girls and forced marriages right to their religious right...Is exactly why these activities have gone on for so long.....

That is the real tragedy.

It's not about religious rights and never has been, it's about Constitutional guarantees about "undue search and seizure", what part of that can't you grasp?
So, from now on since people can't grasp what it is REALLY all about, I'm going to continuously ask, "WHERE IS SARAH?"...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

It is four Sarah at that compound? Undue searches and seizures do not apply to child/sex abuse cases....

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/11/yfz.search.ap/

Perhaps the real Sarah, will stand up and speak, now that they have been remove...Perhaps the real Sarah was afraid of all that cyanide.

quote:

Originally posted by Pomelesk:
BTW, the constitutional rights and search and seizure spiel you are own...Has been trumped by the Patriot Act years ago...Should have spoken up then...

quote:

Originally posted by RCcav:
What I think some people fail to realize is that the rights of the children trump the rights of the parents. I am not a lawyer (although I have watched more "Law and Order" than would be considered normal) and don't claim to be an expert - not even close, but I do believe the authorities have the right and the responsibility to remove children from any situation they deem dangerous. They do not need the same level of probable cause as required for other "seizures." In my personal opinion, I would rather a child in danger be taken away from the parents as soon as possible - even at the risk of destroying the criminal case against the perpetrator - rather than have a child continue to be harmed. Maybe someone who is an expert in this area (someone with a legal degree/background not an avid "Law and Order" follower) can comment on this aspect.

I don't have the specifics of this particular case, and I really am not sure how many of you do either. If you have not seen the warrant, or been given the details of the conditions found at the scene, I am not really sure you can make a determination about whether the authorities were just in their actions. I would like to wait until all the information is out before I make a judgment.

I will say that I am normally a strict believer in an individual's rights. I just believe the rights of the child have to take priority.

SCOUTS OUT!

quote:

Originally posted by Pomelesk:

quote:

Originally posted by RCcav:
What I think some people fail to realize is that the rights of the children trump the rights of the parents. I am not a lawyer (although I have watched more "Law and Order" than would be considered normal) and don't claim to be an expert - not even close, but I do believe the authorities have the right and the responsibility to remove children from any situation they deem dangerous. They do not need the same level of probable cause as required for other "seizures." In my personal opinion, I would rather a child in danger be taken away from the parents as soon as possible - even at the risk of destroying the criminal case against the perpetrator - rather than have a child continue to be harmed. Maybe someone who is an expert in this area (someone with a legal degree/background not an avid "Law and Order" follower) can comment on this aspect.

I don't have the specifics of this particular case, and I really am not sure how many of you do either. If you have not seen the warrant, or been given the details of the conditions found at the scene, I am not really sure you can make a determination about whether the authorities were just in their actions. I would like to wait until all the information is out before I make a judgment.

I will say that I am normally a strict believer in an individual's rights. I just believe the rights of the child have to take priority.

SCOUTS OUT!

Exactly, when children are involved they do not need a probably cause...They are bound by law to investigate and many reports are label and "no cause found". However, once they do arrive they can search the premises with immunity for criminal or civil suits....

Which is a good thing....Since the coverup and supporters of these people is on and off compound grounds...And their history of sex with minors and forced marriages is a FACT.....

But these people I believe, they have outside help and protection as well...Or they would have been debunked by now...That is real tragedy part...Even though they may or may not be indicted...I am sure some will...They amount of outside support is pathetic...They move into places that they really are not hiding...They definitely own and operate many business, so they are supported by outside dollars...

quote:

Originally posted by EAG154:
These religious child molester slavers are the scum of the earth, but they must be given their day in court.

If and when they are found guilty they must be treated harshly.

And because the victims are children the rights of the children must given the highest priority!