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Experienced Member |
+http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125681908931715735.html?mod=article-outset-box "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
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Experienced Member |
So, we borrowed another $1.5 TRILLION and printed up a lot of new shiny dollars just so we could say the economy expanded and the recession is over. Let's all go shopping! |
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Highly respected member |
.........only the folks with all the "new" jobs can use the new dollars.. Already past the future |
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Experienced Member |
As I said even during the Bush years. Economic "growth" based upon borrowing and printing money is not growth at all. Thats like taking out a 10,000 loan and telling your wife you got a raise at work
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Previous Posts as Jade_Gate |
Eye of the hurricane ...
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New Member |
So what!!! From the office of U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics you still have a lot of people out of work and Nonfarm payroll employment continued to decline in September (-263,000), and the unemployment rate (9.8 percent) continued to trend up. The largest job losses were in construction, manufacturing, retail trade, and government. When you outsource and/or destroy your manufacturing capabilities for CHEAP SLAVE LABOR this is why unemployment will continue unabated!! Thanks Democrats and Republicans for destroy this once proud nation for a utopia socialist dream and/or corrupt unabated GREED!!!
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Experienced Member |
Of course this didnt happen overnight, the biggest outflow of jobs started during the Reagan years, was accelerated during the Clinton years and kept on during Bush until we are left with what we have now and that is an America that cannot produce anything and has become a consumer country instead of a producer country. Countries cannot survive long as consumer countries. |
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New Member |
Amen to that brother. We have both political parties that don't give a rats behind for U.S. Citizens and Legal Immigrants. Democrats = Free benefits and health care to Illegal Aliens as long they vote for the corrupt Democrats. Republicans = Allow outsource our manufacturing capabilities and let the corrupt Corps, that still have manufacturing capabilities here, to have CHEAP slave labor from Illegal Aliens. Thanks Democrats and Republicans for giving the middle finger to us U.S. Citizens and Legal Immigrants so you can keep your greed, utopia dreams, and corrupt power!!! |
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Highly Experienced Member![]() |
Christina Romer sounds like an idiot, another Obama whack job! |
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Experienced Member |
Thats for sure. not that it is relevant but has she had the"operation" yet to finish her gender transformation? The only way that I knew for sure she was female was that her name is Christina. Reminds me of "Pat" from SNL |
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Member |
FlankerFlyer,
I have read some good posts of yours that indicates you understand economics fairly well and much more than my knowledge. Is there a way to indicate mathematically, that the pouring of all that stimulus into the economy simply raises that percentage point used to measure growth. I am judging, from the posts I have read, that the stimulus dollars have done nothing more than fit into the mathematical equations used to indicate the state of the economy in such a way that it is actually a false indicator. To me, it matters not who the President is when spending for TARP and stimulus. The fastest, easiest, and most cost effective way to stimulate the economy is to cut out the middle man, that is, the government. In my opinion, that is done with tax cuts, not turbo-charged government spending. It is people that have money to spend that drives the economy. When the government is involved, too much is taken, spent unwisely, and wasted! |
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Experienced Member |
As government spending calculates into the GDP figure as well as consumer spending and manufacturing output, when you inject the amount of money into the system as has been put into it then GDP numbers are easily skewed.
What is important to note is that with nearly 4 trillion in cash that has been printed and distributed by the federal reserve in the form of direct and indirect lending that cash has not been loaned out and is being hoarded which makes the banks capital position look very good. Its also important to note that the big banks are making a profit while defaults are still very high. The reason is that these banks have been investing on Wall-Street and are not making money with their actual banking operations. The rise in the stock market has come without public participation and almost entirely on institutional investment from financial institutions. The system has set itself up for many mergers, takeovers and other consolidations of power, many of which have a large government component in them. One thing I watch and participate in on a VERY SMALL scale comparatively speaking is in commodities trading. I can make "spending money" quite well. Oil has gone up to and reached its yearly high a couple weeks ago despite demand still being flat. The reason for this is due to the vast amount of money available for institutional investors and those with foreign cash reserves who want to make what they think are "safe" investments. that so much money has been able to be poured into commodities proves that there is no shortage of capital available and that people are hoarding it much to the detriment of the overall economy. Oil prices were another thing that helped support 3rd quarter GDP. energy prices as well as government spending make up most all of the 3.5% GDP growth. If oil and gas prices were really reflective of actual supply and demand factors then we should be seeing pump prices around $2/gal instead of what we have now at 2.70/gal Our dollar is also at a historically low value of 1.48 to 1 euro and 1.63 to the GBP. Canadian currency is almost at parity with our dollar again like it was at the worst of the economic crisis last year. When first adopted, the Euro had parity with the dollar so you can see just how bad things are economically. |
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Member |
On a side note...I volunteer at the area food bank. Nationwide, donations are down due to the downturn in the economy. A lot of people that used to donate now find themselves looking for help themselves. The holiday season is coming up and there are a lot of families that need help. I'd ask all of you that can, please donate your time, some food, or maybe a little cash to help those that are in a bad spot right now. Also....don't forget the Toys for Tots program run by the USMCR...
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------------------- Proud Member Derelict Veterans' Group ------------------- |
It's unbelievable that some of these folks don't get it.
First, the only reason we have ANY positive news on the economic front is because of the trillion dollar bail out, once those funds are gone and the government housing program is over, the economy will drop like a rock. THESE ARE FAKE INDICATORS, until REAL JOBS are being created we are still in serious economical problems. But go ahead and try to give this one up to the Obama Admin if you want. WHen it drops again, I will be the first to call you on it. Todays politics remind me of an old saying. - "Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?" - Joseph Stalin |
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Member |
What I am understanding from this discussion and other information is:
A. The stimulus and TARP is really not helping, and more likely hurting the economy. B. The indicators are being somewhat manipulated by the method of government spending. C. At this point the "growth" is not real. D. Tax revenues are falling with increased job losses. E. Tax cuts would beat government spending to bring the economy back. E. The Democrats are likely to attempt to increase tax revenues by increased taxes, and various fees and penalties (all of which are tacked on to the consumer's bill). Where will real economic growth come from at this point of government intervention? |
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Highly Experienced Member |
From Governmental STABILITY , something the Obama Admin. and Pelosi agree they are NOT going to deliver.
STOP spending , reduce the size of government, preserve the "Bush Tax Cuts", BACK OFF trying to run every business and insustry in America, STOP the LIES that everything in America is a DISASTER, SUBSIDIZE the construction of synfuels "refineries", fast track conventional refinery construction, start adding the mini and "pebble bed" nuclear reactors, give a TAX CREDIT for cars and trucks using or adding CNG fuel capability, fast track the LA to Vegas Maglev "railroad", with tax breaks, fast track and condem rights of way for maglev "railroads" along the N/E Corodor, ENABLE the use of nuclear power freight trains, open the Nevada salt beds as offical nuclear waste repositories, ENCOURAGE medical schools to increase enrolement (and nursing, and phy therapist, and technician) at medical schools, back low polution state of the art metal recycling smelters and so on. Then STEP BACK and watch the economy take off. Keep doing what we are doing, watch the economy sputter and sputter and lag along. |
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Highly Experienced Member![]() |
yup, government whacks that can't keep their fingers out of our economy generaly make conditions worse, especially when the money is spent on big wigs instead of going to consumer spending that depletes inventories! |
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