quote:

Originally posted by Grachus:

Well, we're in trouble then. Our country goes back and forth between Government being an honest mediator, and "Capitalism being the source of government."

We've always done far better when it was completely independent.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:
What do you think of Theodore Roosevelt and the anti-trust acts then?...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

I call it, "My point."

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Squizzer:

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

quote:

Originally posted by Squizzer:

quote:

Originally posted by 6486143:

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

quote:

Originally posted by Squizzer:

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

quote:

Originally posted by Squizzer:

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

quote:

Originally posted by Grachus:

quote:

Originally posted by PanzerMeister:

I believe we did not have your OK when we destroyed Saddam's reactor.

What is the point to use our nukes after we are glassed? ONE bomb will destroy Israel, even if it is only "Fat boy" type. USA can survive nuclear exchange with Iran, we can't. Oh, to be sure, Iran and the entire ME will not survive it too (If we are somewhat lucky, and this is not a factor to count on). But we will be dead all the same, and Ayatollah is just crazy enough to go for it.
Virgins are calling....

If the Ayatollahs are as crazy as you think they are, why did they make peace with Iraq? Why haven't they gone to war with us now? After all, the virgins are calling...

If suicide is such fun, what's keeping them?

Dave

They want to commit suicide on a "national scale", it's the only way, they can please Allah... Ever stop to think about that scary lil' idea?!...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Yeah, I thought about it. Then I thought about it being untrue and you making it up... That made more sense.

So, how's the British Union of Fascists doing these days? They still getting their jollies in a sex dungeon?...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

I have no idea. Fascism is your bag, not mine.

Squizzer = lefty = fascist
Why won't you answer? Hit too close to home does it?...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

...You forgot anti-American......let's be fair

Thinking you are a complete and utter d**k, does not an Anti-American make.

Why Squiz, I'd NEVER think that about you...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Was someone talking to you?

Oh, oh, oh, sorry Squiz, I, I, I, ah, gee, ah, I'm sorry Squiz, what ever you say, Squiz...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

quote:

Originally posted by Grachus:

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

Dave, Dave, Dave, fascism is not a political philosophy, it is a governmental style.
You can be communistic and be fascistic, you can be socialistic and be fascistic, you can be theocratic and be fascistic and yes you can be democratic and be fascistic...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

You're just playing with words. From time to time people make up their own definitions. All that your doing is saying that A Totalitarian Dictatorship is Fascist, and we need consider nothing else.

But you're contradicting yourself. Totalitarian Dictatorships existed LONG Before Socialism was even dreamed of. The left didn't invent them. And to be fair, neither did the Right.

Dave

Sorry Dave, but ah, NO...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

quote:

Originally posted by Grachus:

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

Well now, really, does that mean all the cr@p people have been pumping out about President Bush is wrong? I mean if you can't have a democratic fascist, then President Bush can't be a fascist like some on here claim, huh?!...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Exactly right. Bush is not a Fascist. Nor, if you look through every post I've ever made here can you find me making that claim.

Dave

Ah Dave, I didn't say you, I said other people...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

quote:

Originally posted by Grachus:

quote:

Originally posted by Grachus:

Well, we're in trouble then. Our country goes back and forth between Government being an honest mediator, and "Capitalism being the source of government."

We've always done far better when it was completely independent.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:
What do you think of Theodore Roosevelt and the anti-trust acts then?...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

I call it, "My point."

Dave

Dave, the POINT is, that CAPITALISM, is not a political philosophy, it is an ECONOMIC system.
Theodore Roosevelt was exercising his authority under a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC, to reign in capitalism, to prevent it from running rough shod over the populace. Now, are you beginning to see what I've been talking about, no one is trying to obviscate or confuse, you are confusing political, economic and governmental systems...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

The antitrust and banking laws? That's why during the Great Depression Our thousands of little banks went belly up while canada's three nationwide banks all stayed afloat...

quote:

Originally posted by godawgz:
The antitrust and banking laws? That's why during the Great Depression Our thousands of little banks went belly up while canada's three nationwide banks all stayed afloat...

Theodore Roosevelt tried to prevent what eventually happened, though it happened many years after his presidency. Herbert Hoover took a hands off approach and thought that it would sort itself out, no pre-emptive action. Franklin D. Roosevelt, took pre-emptive action to correct the problems before they developed. NRA, WPA, CCC, improved and sponsored government run migrant labor camps for the displaced. Prevented a coup to over throw him. So, what will we do with our slowly collapsing economy due to the devaluing dollar on the world market? Will we be pre-emptive, on shore our industries, disavow unfair and unbalanced trade agreements, enact trade tariffs, balance our budget, reduce and retire our national debt? None of it will be easy and the American middle class, what's left of it, will take most of the pain of it, what do we do? To do nothing is suicide, to be pre-emptive, is hard, harsh and painful...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Of course banks were doing some pretty brilliant shite leading up to the GD.. call loans prob'ly being the most brilliant, but if you ever tighten the noose to the point of choking off basic stupidity, you're gonna choke off a lot of other things as well....

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

quote:

Originally posted by godawgz:
The antitrust and banking laws? That's why during the Great Depression Our thousands of little banks went belly up while canada's three nationwide banks all stayed afloat...

Theodore Roosevelt tried to prevent what eventually happened, though it happened many years after his presidency. Herbert Hoover took a hands off approach and thought that it would sort itself out, no pre-emptive action. Franklin D. Roosevelt, took pre-emptive action to correct the problems before they developed. NRA, WPA, CCC, improved and sponsored government run migrant labor camps for the displaced. Prevented a coup to over throw him. So, what will we do with our slowly collapsing economy due to the devaluing dollar on the world market? Will we be pre-emptive, on shore our industries, disavow unfair and unbalanced trade agreements, enact trade tariffs, balance our budget, reduce and retire our national debt? None of it will be easy and the American middle class, what's left of it, will take most of the pain of it, what do we do? To do nothing is suicide, to be pre-emptive, is hard, harsh and painful...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

I really don't think it'll take all that much, the most painful (and improbable bit) would prob'ly be a mass change in personal behavior.. we didn't do it back when it wouldn't have been that painful and we won't do it now.. as for gov't policy, just enforce the laws on the books and enforce our market rights abroad.. I doubt further intervention would be necessary beyond that, but I would sure as hell wait for the effects of the obvious steps to soak in before I went to extremes in any case...

quote:

Originally posted by godawgz:
Of course banks were doing some pretty brilliant shite leading up to the GD.. call loans prob'ly being the most brilliant, but if you ever tighten the noose to the point of choking off basic stupidity, you're gonna choke off a lot of other things as well....

ROAR! True, but then, banks are calling loans now.
It's like the old quandary during 'Nam, "HO CHI MINH, COLONEL SANDERS, ONE IN THE SAME, YOU BE THE JUDGE!"...
LOL Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Especially now that there are KFCs in china, and we buy our clothes at The 'Giap'

quote:

Originally posted by godawgz:
Especially now that there are KFCs in china, and we buy our clothes at The 'Giap'

ROAR!
LOL Respectfully, SUNLINER81

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

quote:

Originally posted by Grachus:

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

Well now, really, does that mean all the cr@p people have been pumping out about President Bush is wrong? I mean if you can't have a democratic fascist, then President Bush can't be a fascist like some on here claim, huh?!...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Exactly right. Bush is not a Fascist. Nor, if you look through every post I've ever made here can you find me making that claim.

Dave

Ah Dave, I didn't say you, I said other people...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Well, if you read some of the posts on this board, the Democrats are Communists, and Hillary is the head of the Third International...

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:
What do you think of Theodore Roosevelt and the anti-trust acts then?...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

I call it, "My point."

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:
Dave, the POINT is, that CAPITALISM, is not a political philosophy, it is an ECONOMIC system.
Theodore Roosevelt was exercising his authority under a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC, to reign in capitalism, to prevent it from running rough shod over the populace. Now, are you beginning to see what I've been talking about, no one is trying to obviscate or confuse, you are confusing political, economic and governmental systems...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

I understand your point. Trust me I do. To a guy like Teddy, the interest of the country comes before the interests of Monopolist corporations.

Do you think he even thought of the question in terms of the debate we are having? In other words, he took "Free enterprise' for granted. He broke up these trusts because the interests of "Capitalism" were contrary to the interests of the country.

Ok, ok, I'm not being clear. While I'm a libertarian Socialist, I really don't have a problem with a regulated Capitalism which is "Patriotic," i.e. everyone benefits. The country benefits, etc.

Can you imagine a guy like TR approving NAFTA or the WTO? man would have a 4hit fit. He'd be talking loudly and beating the hell out of these people with his proverbial big stick.

The interests of Capitalism, not the country are being served.

If you look back at my words to Dawg, I said, we've always been led by people who are Capitalists, but we've gone back and forth between being run by Capitalists, on the one hand, and Capitalism on the other.

Many people who are Capitalists, are just people with a lot of money who ALSO have the best interests of the country at heart, whereas, when we've been run by Capitalism (which is the case today) they primarily look to the interests of Capitalism, and not what's good for America.

Dave

quote:

Can you imagine a guy like TR approving NAFTA or the WTO? man would have a 4hit fit. He'd be talking loudly and beating the hell out of these people with his proverbial big stick.

Good point, as most of us who can read know he would have joined into similar agreements with Stalin instead.....who was his personal hero....

quote:

Originally posted by 6486143:

quote:

Can you imagine a guy like TR approving NAFTA or the WTO? man would have a 4hit fit. He'd be talking loudly and beating the hell out of these people with his proverbial big stick.

Good point, as most of us who can read know he would have joined into similar agreements with Stalin instead.....who was his personal hero....

Teddy Roosevelts personal hero was Stalin? I know you hate rational Conservatives, but isn't this a stetch?

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by godawgz:
Thirteen year olds marching into battle in human waves with plastic keys and Korans.. but hell they have a fountain in their honor that squirts red water...

"The blood of the martyrs"

So I guess in Iran blood really ISN'T thicker than water....