Another Taser - Citizen Enslavement incident from our "People In Blue"

Ban Taser use or classify it as a lethal weapon.


"Police used a Taser on a pastor and pepper spray to disperse his congregants Wednesday after the pastor allegedly interfered with a traffic stop in the church parking lot."

"http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529800,00.html"

Fortunately, the citizen did not die this time. Cops are using Tasers as a control weapon when it is not necessary and it needs to stop.

I read the news story from another source other than FAUX - the local newspaper The Houston Chronicle.

"http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/breaking/6507734.html"

quote:

Webster Police Chief Ray Smiley said Moran pushed two police officers in the incident that occurred about 5:30 a.m. outside Iglesia Profetica Peniel, 120 N. Austin...

According to Smiley, an officer was talking with a motorist in the church parking lot when he ran a registration check and discovered the man had no car insurance.

Moran approached the officer and began yelling at him, demanding to know why a member of his congregation had been stopped, the police chief said.

“He said we were on private property and wanted us off the property,” Smiley said. “He was pretty aggressive.”

When Moran refused an order to leave, the officer told him that he was under arrest. Moran pushed the officer as he tried to handcuff him, Smiley said, and fled inside the church.

Moran later came out with a group of about 40 people who surrounded the officer, Smiley said. The officer, fearing for his safety, used pepper spray to disperse the crowd.

When backup officers tried to make the arrest, Smiley said Moran pushed another officer, who used his Taser to subdue him.

The reverend physically assaulted one police officer, then incited a 40 person mob to surround the LEOs and threaten them with physically harm, and then physically assaulted a second LEO.

Would you have preferred the LEO's clubbed the minister with their nightsticks in their own self defense - or should they have just shot him with their service pistols?

Under the circumstances, tasering their assailant and pepper spraying the mob doesn't seem that over-the-top. Shooting him and/or some of the members of the mob would have been excessive use of force, though.

quote:

Originally posted by Fightdirector:
I read the news story from another source other than FAUX - the local newspaper The Houston Chronicle.

"http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/breaking/6507734.html"

quote:

Webster Police Chief Ray Smiley said Moran pushed two police officers in the incident that occurred about 5:30 a.m. outside Iglesia Profetica Peniel, 120 N. Austin...

According to Smiley, an officer was talking with a motorist in the church parking lot when he ran a registration check and discovered the man had no car insurance.

Moran approached the officer and began yelling at him, demanding to know why a member of his congregation had been stopped, the police chief said.

“He said we were on private property and wanted us off the property,” Smiley said. “He was pretty aggressive.”

When Moran refused an order to leave, the officer told him that he was under arrest. Moran pushed the officer as he tried to handcuff him, Smiley said, and fled inside the church.

Moran later came out with a group of about 40 people who surrounded the officer, Smiley said. The officer, fearing for his safety, used pepper spray to disperse the crowd.

When backup officers tried to make the arrest, Smiley said Moran pushed another officer, who used his Taser to subdue him.

The reverend physically assaulted one police officer, then incited a 40 person mob to surround the LEOs and threaten them with physically harm, and then physically assaulted a second LEO.

Would you have preferred the LEO's clubbed the minister with their nightsticks in their own self defense - or should they have just shot him with their service pistols?

Under the circumstances, tasering their assailant and pepper spraying the mob doesn't seem that over-the-top. Shooting him and/or some of the members of the mob would have been excessive use of force, though.

I figured there was more to it, it was suspect when Moran came out with 40 troops from his church.

I would have been worried as well. The officer called for back up I would hope.

quote:

Originally posted by L0A1:
I would have been worried as well. The officer called for back up I would hope.

According to The Houston Chronicle story, it was one of the back-up LEOs that was the target of the minister's second assault.

If this had been Philadelphia, PA in the 1950's (where I was growing up), the LEOs then would have pulled out their service revolvers, shot the minister to death on the spot (and maybe a few members of the mob) and then they would have received medals from the police commissioner and the mayor.

Having been "hit" by a Taser as part of the training required to carry one when I was a civilian LE Officer, I can tell you it sucks.

But in most cases it's non-lethal and recovery time is about 5 minutes after after the "hit" itself.

Having also been sprayed by OC (Pepper Spray) I'll tell you I'd rather get hit with the Tazer.

Either one is better than being struck with a baton, nightstick, slapper, blackjack or other police impact weapon.

Anyone can appoint themselves a minister without a day of training. Here in NY "Reverend Al" has been a minister since age 14, but he's never had a congregation. Rev. Jones led 900 to their deaths in the '70s. David Koresh in Texas was investigated for child rape. Some are ex-convicts who shouldn't be allowed to identify themselves with that term.

This guy believes his property is some sort of sovereign nation immune from laws he decides which is appropriate. He started a fight he couldn't finish and tries to hide behind god's name as a cover. The man is a phony and deserved what happen.

Out of millions of police-citizen interactions occurring everyday some are going to sour. This ain't one of them. I'm glad cops tased that fool.

I'm a person in blue. Recently we had 22,000 people test for 300-400 positions. They will have to

1) Pass a competitive civil service exam.
2) Undergo a full medical, physical, psych eval.
3) Pass a background check which includes a neighborhood and former employment canvass.
4) A credit check.
5) Letters of recommendation.
6) A polygraph which looks for latent tendencies; fights, accidents, alcohol or drug abuse.
7) Pass an 8 month academy which requires 6 mile runs.
8) Become a state-certified EMT
9) Complete an 18 month probationary period.
10) Take a sworn oath of office.
11) Subscribe to a code of ethics.
12) Tolerate endless criticism from even those we serve and protect.

I belong to an agency which is accredited by the US Justice Dept. Our acceptance rate of less than 2% is less than Harvard's which is 8%. In return I am compensated over 100K a year and enjoy a level of professionalism which exceeds levels of what some whiners here could ever accomplish. I thank the USAF for providing me my start. You can call me a person in blue anytime. I earned it.

quote:

Originally posted by Fightdirector:

quote:

Originally posted by L0A1:
I would have been worried as well. The officer called for back up I would hope.

According to The Houston Chronicle story, it was one of the back-up LEOs that was the target of the minister's second assault.

If this had been Philadelphia, PA in the 1950's (where I was growing up), the LEOs then would have pulled out their service revolvers, shot the minister to death on the spot (and maybe a few members of the mob) and then they would have received medals from the police commissioner and the mayor.

Not if the pastor and mob had been from one of the "rich" areas in Philly, then the Officers would have been in trouble for not leaving when told

quote:

Originally posted by rayld2:

quote:

Originally posted by Fightdirector:

quote:

Originally posted by L0A1:
I would have been worried as well. The officer called for back up I would hope.

According to The Houston Chronicle story, it was one of the back-up LEOs that was the target of the minister's second assault.

If this had been Philadelphia, PA in the 1950's (where I was growing up), the LEOs then would have pulled out their service revolvers, shot the minister to death on the spot (and maybe a few members of the mob) and then they would have received medals from the police commissioner and the mayor.

Not if the pastor and mob had been from one of the "rich" areas in Philly, then the Officers would have been in trouble for not leaving when told

YUP!!!

We have a legal bureau that's comprised of cops with law degrees. They've interpreted tasers as effective in preventing officer injuries and citizen injuries. Their use has saved taxpayers costly litigation in lawsuits.

Despite constant claims from taser critics, their use is here to stay. They will never be considered more than minimum use-of-force. Unless legislation changes laws, we will see a growth in taser applications nationwide. To prevent getting tased yourself, don't do anything stupid.

I've voiced my opinion against the use of tasers in other discussions but after reading the events posted here, I've got to side with the cop on this case.

Don

Reports of this incident say it happened at 5:30 am, or 'in the early morning hours'.

Getting off topic but what kind of church has more than 40 worshippers in it at 5 o'clock in the morning? The reverend et al were there, apparently, for an early-morning service.

The police, and it looked like there were at least 6 present in the video of the end of the incident, when they were arresting the pastor, seemed like they been there for a while.

quote:

Originally posted by scpd3045:
To prevent getting tased yourself, don't do anything stupid.

If there was a general accepted definition of 'something stupid', I'd be with you. Often however that can depend on how somebody else's day is going.

A frustrated peace officer might think twice about pulling a trigger, but using a 'harmless stand-off injury prevention system'? What the hey, no-brainer.

quote:

Originally posted by scpd3045:
We have a legal bureau that's comprised of cops with law degrees. They've interpreted tasers as effective in preventing officer injuries and citizen injuries. Their use has saved taxpayers costly litigation in lawsuits.

Despite constant claims from taser critics, their use is here to stay. They will never be considered more than minimum use-of-force. Unless legislation changes laws, we will see a growth in taser applications nationwide. To prevent getting tased yourself, don't do anything stupid.

A 'cop with a law degree' is no more correct than me with a law degree. We argue our 'opinions' before a judge, the court decides based on laws made by our legislatures. The 'law' is still unwritten on tasers - that's a large part of the problem.

There are untested legal 'opinions' being used to guide law enforcement policies and procedures. Subjective opinions, like policies and procedures, vary widely and are easily changeable. Objective laws are better.

Looks to me like the rev. and his followers should be locked up!

Alibubba, I don't disagree with you. However I'm an employee of a large corporation. When the notice of claim is served from a civil-litigation attorney, I'm more protected by proving I followed departmental protocols compared to risking other behavior. I intend on following established-departmental procedures as much as possible, especially during routine confrontations. Where as we used to tackle somebody, now they will get tased.

I've only been sued once in my career. After a 6 day trial the plaintiffs walked out more broke as when they came in. Court costs, subpoena fees, transcript fees, stenographer, expert witnesses, depositions, and meals and mileage were eaten by the NYC Johnny Cochran Firm.

I wonder where the constant critics come from. We live in a terrific society. Although it's not perfect, we enjoy many freedoms that are almost taken for granted. There's a certain amount of citizens who can only complain when things don't go the way they perceive they should. They're generally quick to lay blame but also lack facts or solutions.

My brother is a career politician. Men and women in positions of leadership are more likely to be the brunt of whiners. He had a political party counter, "Why are we getting criticized. We don't do nothing." Well imagine a politician who does. The very same type of critics complaining about their police here are are the same big mouths who are unhappy in their everyday lives.