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Originally posted by jkbrent:
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"In Russia, the government tells business what to do."

Yes, exactly... just like Hitler and the Nazis told Big Business what to do, as well as those of the occupied nations. Except France of course who just couldn't wait to work for the Wermacht.

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only because we have sought to circumvent our own constitution with this so called enemy combatant detaining facility.

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Originally posted by DocVQone:

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Originally posted by Weatherguesser:
There is no North-Vietnam anymore.

Right, Peacenik! There is also no South Vietnam anymore. Just the blood of 58,000 of our brothers that was left behind.

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Originally posted by jkbrent:
Let me try to address all the replies in this one. Yes, there is a lot defeatism and disloyalty on this site.

1) Europe has always and will forever be, fascists. Especially Germany. They needed us there to keep the Soviets out, but at heart have always been our enemies.

2) France is a world-wide joke. And has always been envious of the US since WWII. Read your history. They still can't accept the reality that they are not a super power.

3) Mullen and those like him are defeatists. Not to mention that while he wears that uniform, he has no business publicly questioning the chain of command. There is a proper way to do that. If he can't follow orders, or can't morally live with them, then get out or aske to be relieved of command on those grounds. If he did that, his point of view might hold more water.

4) Saying things like 'it makes us look bad' or even worrying about how other countries view us is, in and of itself, aiding and abetting the enemy.

5) Terrorism is not for law enforcement or lawyers to solve. It's a "poor man's" military option. As well as a way to divert an enemies attention and drain their time and resources to weaken them. Perhaps in preparation for a larger conventioanl assault.

6) No terrorist group, not even one backed by bin Laden's money has the ability by itself to cross borders, go into or out of territories, territorial waters, or airspace without the aide and collaboration of SOMEONE within those countries they enter or cross through.

7) Look at who has been benefitting from our being distracted with the war on terror. Russia has slowly been sinking into dictatorship and a fascist one at that. The French and Germans have been eroding US influence in Europe to the benefit of the Franco-German dominated EU. China has been building up it's military, and manipulating politics in Taiwan, which they will conquer without one shot being fired.

9/11/01 was every bit as much a strategic operation as it was a terrorist hit. And, the world whose opinions were so concerned about, are those who benefitted the most from it.

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If Hitler was alive and doing what he did you would presumably say they were entitled to our consitutional laws as well.

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If you are, and which I doubt, a Christian

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Hell, they are not even human or by and meaning of the word

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Undoubetlt, we shgould bring Peter Pace back - Mullen and Gates have proved to be more adept as appeasors than anything else.

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Originally posted by lonjamison:
Undoubetlt, we shgould bring Peter Pace back - Mullen and Gates have proved to be more adept as appeasors than anything else.

“The truth from an old Army Warrant Officer - that is an oxymoron, right?”

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Originally posted by schmiddc:

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If Hitler was alive and doing what he did you would presumably say they were entitled to our consitutional laws as well.

"Constitutional" laws? well, that sir is a matter of opinion, but Hitlers cohorts WERE charged, tried, and sentanced, not permenantly thrown into a gulag without charges..

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If you are, and which I doubt, a Christian

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Hell, they are not even human or by and meaning of the word

sounds like you might not be the ideal person to assess other's Christianity...

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Undoubetlt, we shgould bring Peter Pace back - Mullen and Gates have proved to be more adept as appeasors than anything else.

mmmkay.. might as well bring back Rumsfield too, show those jihadi's we mean buisness, futile and incompetent buisness, but buisness nontheless!!!

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Originally posted by jkbrent:
I'm starting to wonder if all of these people are really who and what they say they are. Some of the posts seem to be right off a George Soros talking points memo. Or, one of Hitlery Rob'em Clinton's.

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Originally posted by Buckellew:
Seems that there is some pretty widespread disagreement on what to do about the confinement facility at Guantanamo Bay.

And how to treat the detainees. And what to do with them. To me it comes down to the rules of war that our Armed Forces are bound to follow, and the laws and treaties that the people of our country have agreed to follow. Rule of Law.

We have never had to deal with "unlawful alien combatants" on a national level prior to 9/11, and where terrorism was dealt with, it was dealt with via the legal and law enforcement system. The administration pushed through, in the waning days of the last Republican controlled congress with a vote largely along party lines, the Military Commissions Act of 2006, which was signed into law on 10 Oct 06. It has not yet been tested in court, and there may be some parts that are unconstituional. That remains to be seen. The very term "unlawful enemy combatant" is a contrivance of Rumsfeld and has caught on with certain circles in government.

This is how government works. Congress passes laws, the President can either sign them into law or veto, and then the Courts decide on whether Congress over-stepped or over-reached.

Any time Congress passes a law that violates the Constitution, that makes it into law - even if it is extremely popular - it will be struck down by the Supreme Court.

Advocating for one side of an issue or the other does not make one "defeatist" or "disloyal", or even "un-American." That is, in fact, basic Americanism.

We agree to disagree, and our constitution puts that in writing.

It seems like people are awfully fond of, and in favor of taking away the right of someone else to do something, but when it comes to their personal pet right they yelp "Hands Off! That's my Right!"

There are a lot of good loyal Americans of all political persuasions here. And a lot of bombastic comments calling one another Leftist/Lib or Rightwing/Conservative. Calling someone "disloyal", or "defeatist" may make you feel better, but it does not give an argument legitimacy. Or even makes you right.

Now people are calling into question each other's credibility as far as being a veteran is concerned. And there are posers that hide behind empty profiles, or make up preposterous ones. That doesn't add to legitimate discussion or debate about a topic.

Feel free to call our allies fascists, make all the bigoted and narrow-minded statements you care to, it's a free country and you may say anything you like. As long as it's not libelous or slanderous, or causes public harm.

But don't be shocked if someone calls in to question your own bonafides when doing so.

As for myself, I think that the confinement facilities were an expediency that has passed its usefulness, and is now not only a national embarrassment, but threatens to erode our personal liberties. If there was a plan to do something further, it would have been already in public debate. There isn't any alternative, so it's time to dispense with justice, and get on with finishing the wars. This has been a serious distraction in the War on Terror. Among other distractions.

And don't get me wrong here - I haven't voted for a Democratic President since Jimmy Carter. But that doesn't make me a Republican shill.

Anyone in the middle-ground, the political center, looks pretty far right to the leftwing, and pretty far left to the rightwing, I suppose. But after 28 years of service to our country, 26 on active duty, in some of the worst places a human being can go, I think I have earned a right to say whatever I like, and express my freedom of speech.

Not disloyal, not defeatist, just an American that doesn't like where my country is heading. We're better than this stuff. And my bonafides speaks for themselves.