I was in when the first E-9s were created! If enlisted personnel, were beginning to receive the "Defense Distinguished Service Medal;" I believe there would have been a lot of publicity. I haven't heard of any.

Moreover, its rather "uncharacteristic" of the SecDef to award a medal to someone "explicitly" prohibited by the E.O.. I've tried to find; if the E.O. was amended by another. I gave up!

Ranger9 could've made an error when completing his "military.com" profile.

I've known several E-9s and most, today, understand that typing in all caps is, sometimes, interpreted as screaming. Even though, I won't place a lot of emphasis on the fact Ranger9 comments are in all CAPS.

It's something about that line from the "Ballad of the Green Berets" that goes like this: "One hundred will test; today, but only three will wear the green beret"

U.S. Army Ranger (Special Forces) are impressive. Most, I've met are "Sharp as A Tack; both physically and mentally." They don't make a lot of errors! At least, not as many as I do, and I can express a thought without screaming (all caps).

Returning to Ranger9's profile ribbons -- seems he may have also forgot one - Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal.

Yep, somewhere the errors causes one to wonder!

From A Proud Vietnam Veteran

quote:

Originally posted by Well_Seasoned:

quote:

As to the Defense medal, I have no idea ... it is usually awarded only to general officers, but it wouldn't be impossible for a command sergeant major to get it as an end of career award. He just doesn't fit the profile of a wannabe, does he really? I would cut him some slack, whatever his views might be.

Don't know how accurate this is.

quote:

Originally posted by WesLemmon:
Oldmole; relatively speaking -- I've held my "powder dry!" Certainly possible, he's the genuine article. I still may check the "Silver Star Registry;" but, I'm electing to wait for his response.

At this point, I've only asked one "Respectful Question!"

From A Proud Vietnam Veteran

quote:

Originally posted by oldmole:

quote:

I've been out of uniform for almost 28 years, and things do change; but -- in the Air Force -- we weren't allowed to wear TWO "Vietnam Gallantry Cross With Palm Device" Ribbons.

But, wearing TWO does add "Noticeability" to your personal arrangement!

Wes, The individual award of the Vietnam Gallantry Cross, a suspension medal, is an entirely separate decoration than the unit award, that everybody assigned to MACV got when they showed up in country. The ribbon display on the member page isn't a uniform, and it is likely he rated both.

As to the Defense medal, I have no idea ... it is usually awarded only to general officers, but it wouldn't be impossible for a command sergeant major to get it as an end of career award. He just doesn't fit the profile of a wannabe, does he really? I would cut him some slack, whatever his views might be.

Wes, i have known you long enough to notice when you are being respectful ... and this

quote:

I've been out of uniform for almost 28 years, and things do change; but -- in the Air Force -- we weren't allowed to wear TWO "Vietnam Gallantry Cross With Palm Device" Ribbons.

But, wearing TWO does add "Noticeability" to your personal arrangement!

seems like a poor example.

Might be a simple error, clicked the wrong medal when filling out the form in the first place. It isn't the kind of decoration a wannabe would use to try to impress people ... that runs more to the DSC and the Medal ... and he is using his own name, something wannabe impostors don't generally do ... did a little checking on line and there is a real person, living in Florida, same name and the right age range.

I also recognize that you aren't being downright snarky, either. Bear in mind that he is in his mid-seventies, and that rack indicates some hard living ... and that his service wouldn't come with a whole bunch of computer experience. Some of us aren't as skilled as others, but that oughtn't be the basis on which opinions are judged, much as I find "shouting" as objectionable as you do.

quote:

Originally posted by oldmole:

quote:

Originally posted by WesLemmon:
Oldmole; relatively speaking -- I've held my "powder dry!" Certainly possible, he's the genuine article. I still may check the "Silver Star Registry;" but, I'm electing to wait for his response.

At this point, I've only asked one "Respectful Question!"

From A Proud Vietnam Veteran

quote:

Originally posted by oldmole:

quote:

I've been out of uniform for almost 28 years, and things do change; but -- in the Air Force -- we weren't allowed to wear TWO "Vietnam Gallantry Cross With Palm Device" Ribbons.

But, wearing TWO does add "Noticeability" to your personal arrangement!

Wes, The individual award of the Vietnam Gallantry Cross, a suspension medal, is an entirely separate decoration than the unit award, that everybody assigned to MACV got when they showed up in country. The ribbon display on the member page isn't a uniform, and it is likely he rated both.

As to the Defense medal, I have no idea ... it is usually awarded only to general officers, but it wouldn't be impossible for a command sergeant major to get it as an end of career award. He just doesn't fit the profile of a wannabe, does he really? I would cut him some slack, whatever his views might be.

Wes, i have known you long enough to notice when you are being respectful ... and this

quote:

I've been out of uniform for almost 28 years, and things do change; but -- in the Air Force -- we weren't allowed to wear TWO "Vietnam Gallantry Cross With Palm Device" Ribbons.

But, wearing TWO does add "Noticeability" to your personal arrangement!

seems like a poor example.

Might be a simple error, clicked the wrong medal when filling out the form in the first place. It isn't the kind of decoration a wannabe would use to try to impress people ... that runs more to the DSC and the Medal ... and he is using his own name, something wannabe impostors don't generally do ... did a little checking on line and there is a real person, living in Florida, same name and the right age range.

I also recognize that you aren't being downright snarky, either. Bear in mind that he is in his mid-seventies, and that rack indicates some hard living ... and that his service wouldn't come with a whole bunch of computer experience. Some of us aren't as skilled as others, but that oughtn't be the basis on which opinions are judged, much as I find "shouting" as objectionable as you do.

As to the Defense medal ... there are a number of them and if medals aren't the biggest thing in your life ... would be easy to glom on to the DDSM vice the DSSM vice the DMSM ...

I still wonder why the "Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal" isn't there!

I wonder about the "uncharacteristic" screaming (typing in all Caps); because I don't know many E-9s who gained success by doing that! And, I don't encounter that from many today?

I wonder about the TWO Vietnam Gallantry Crosses with Palm are displayed (where normally only one would appear).

I wonder about the claim for the award of the Department of Defense Distinguished Service Medal. Where none can be (easily) validated as having gone to Enlisted Personnel.

Of course, all may be errors!

I guess I'm a traditionalist! Wonder why Admiral Borda committed suicide? Yep, individual honor, means different things to different folks!

If my questioning is "poor example;" then, after I've seen the "errors" of my ways -- I'll apoligize, if appropriate!

From A Proud Vietnam Veteran

quote:

I wonder about the TWO Vietnam Gallantry Crosses with Palm are displayed (where normally only one would appear).

As I pointed out, the individual award, a suspension medal without frame, and the unit citation with frame and without an associated medal, are two distinct decorations. He is certainly entitled to indicated that he earned both, even though he may not have worn them both simultaneous on his uniform.

I have know plenty of folks in the green beanies would weren't obsessed over merit badges.

Accepted; that's your opinion! Explain to me why it is superior to my opinion?

Again, in this profile display; one would reasonable expect only one Cross (ribbon) to be displayed.

Couple, this with the other "suspected errors" I've mentioned!

Enlisted Grade E-9s aren't dumb a$$es; and usually, they make very "limited mistakes" in their uniform and assemble of personal awards and decorations displays.

As far as mistakenly "scrolling downward;" Ranger9 could have easily scrolled upwards and mistakenly hit Medal of Honor!

Would you "question" it then? Give me some "good logic" why I'm out of line or setting a poor example?

Obsessed? No!! Just, tired of those that choose to claim Military status they aren't entitled too?

Tired enough to question others, who may have every right to what they have claimed!

It's akin to when someone asks for my ID Card; I often "Thank Them;" because -- after all the inconvenience; their actions "are actually protecting us."

Unfortunately; you and I likely differ about those actions.

I'll Stand By My Previous Question to Ranger9!!!

From A proud Vietnam Veteran

quote:

Originally posted by oldmole:

quote:

I wonder about the TWO Vietnam Gallantry Crosses with Palm are displayed (where normally only one would appear).

As I pointed out, the individual award, a suspension medal without frame, and the unit citation with frame and without an associated medal, are two distinct decorations. He is certainly entitled to indicated that he earned both, even though he may not have worn them both simultaneous on his uniform.

I have know plenty of folks in the green beanies would weren't obsessed over merit badges.

Weslemmon - Your commentary on your experiences in Vietnam in 1967 - 1968 was an interesting read, and it clearly illustrates why you uniquelyrefer to yourself as a "Proud Vietnam Veteran." I don't believe I had previously inquired why you use the remark.

Thanks for the reply; Tom!

From A Proud Vietnam Veteran

quote:

Originally posted by Tom4869:
Weslemmon - Your commentary on your experiences in Vietnam in 1967 - 1968 was an interesting read, and it clearly illustrates why you uniquelyrefer to yourself as a "Proud Vietnam Veteran." I don't believe I had previously inquired why you use the remark.

SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS HARD FOR ME TO SEE. WILL TRY TO WRITE IN SMALL LETTERS

well I hope this is better it takes a little longer but have to keep peace with the troops

Well Mr Hatter, if that is your name:

a. You have NOT EARNED THE Department of Defense Distinguished Service Medal as posted on your profile.

b. I doubt that you have earned the WWII Occupation Army/AF Medal.

c. I doubt that you have earned the Defense Meritorious Service Medal.

d. I doubt that you have earned R.O.K. War Service Medal.

e. I doubt that you have earned the U.S. Army Silver Star.

f. I doubt that you were a U.S. Army (Special Forces) Ranger.

and g. I Doubt that you were ever an U.S. Military Enlisted Member in the Grade of E-9.

So, Ranger9; would you like to "Clear Up" some of my doubts!

I've got it your "eyesight is bad;" trust me, so is mine! And, even if some disagree; I believe my "mind" stills functions "OK!"

From A Proud Vietnam Veteran

quote:

Originally posted by RANGER9:
well I hope this is better it takes a little longer but have to keep peace with the troops

This message has been edited. Last edited by: WesLemmon,

Sorry; Fred -- this personal message and your "salute" to me; still doesn't answer my question to you!

==============================

You’ve got a message from Frederick D Hatter
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YES CAPT BUT TEMP RETIRED RANK SM THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE ALSO

Do not reply to this email
To contact Frederick D Hatter, you must go though Frederick D Hatter’s profile page:
http://www.military.com/HomePage/UnitPageMemberProfile/1,13480,5917033,00.html

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++


I have credible information that "Frederick D. Hatter" as a Captain, nor as an Enlisted Member -- never was adwarded the Defense Distinguished Service Medal; period!

Nice Try, though!

Appreciate the "Formal Salute;" however, I won't be posting it!

From A Proud Vietnam Veteran

Weslemmon - Fred Hatter is not identified on the official registery of "Recepients of Distinguished Service Medal" I suppose it is only fair to assume he is a "Poser."

Maybe, but pride goeth ...

There can't be that many Fred Hatters in O'Brien, Florida ... you might consider calling him up on the phone, rather than calling him out on the board ... if someone is posing, the real guy might not know about it. I don't see that he fits the poser pattern ... there are too many consistencies that argue against it, but that is just my opinion.

Right Tom; He had his chance to admit to a mistake (or many mistakes) in posting his profile.

He choose to argue the claim with a personal message to me saying that he was a Captain; but, now is a Temporary Retired Sergeant Major!

Aah; it don't work that way! Yes, I believe he is a youngster and is an imposter (troll or whatever we want to call them).

I hope he goes on to school, and becomes the Ranger he is pretending to be! After all "imitation is the purest form of flattery!"

From A Proud Vietnam Veteran

quote:

Originally posted by Tom4869:
Weslemmon - Fred Hatter is not identified on the official registery of "Recepients of Distinguished Service Medal" I suppose it is only fair to assume he is a "Poser."

Oldmole; you once asked that I be fair!

I now return the request to you!

This is Fred Hatter's response to me in a personal message (I posted it above).

"YES CAPT BUT TEMP RETIRED RANK SM THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE ALSO"


Oldmole; Do you NOT SEE INCONSISTENCIES; in that response?

How long does it take to reach E-9 rank these days? Usually 18-to 26 Years, is that a fair estimate?

How many temporary retirements have you heard of "after the 18th year?

Who makes more a Captain or an E-9? Relatively speaking it's close.

- Usually an E-9 has more TIS and would make a little more.

- But, how many Captains have you known of that were allowed to retire in the E-9 Grade without being promoted to that Grade? I've not heard of it!

- If, he had attained E-9 before becoming a Captain; what E-9 in his or her right mind would make that switch (from E-9 to Captain).

Who has more responsiblity, a Captain or an E-9?
I know the answer; and, I'm sure you do too!

I'd like to hear from some Special Forces Folks; that'll reassure me that they aren't awarding "Temporary E-9" grades to Captains. And E-9s aren't bolting through the doors to become Captains.

Throughout, Fred's postings, there are multiple inconsistencies.

- I knew of the Registry of Defense Distinguished Service Medal. I knew less than 200 have received it.

- I know of the World War II Occupation Medal being issued up until 1990 (I know of the criteria for the award).

- - Fred's profile ribbon display has all the "tell tell" signs of someone shopping with the "requisite knowledge" of what he was buying.

- I know enough about the "Other Services;" to form "expectations" based on their rank, uniform appearance, and personal demeanor! Fred doesn't have it!

But, bottom line: I can't recall an E-9 that I've met; that uses the "grammer" of a 16 year old; and seems to have "unusual difficulty" in constructing a simple sentence.

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- E-9s are pretty DAMM Impressive. They're abilities to use and write grammatically correct sentences have been tested over and over again. They've made me feel inadequate time and time again.

Fred doesn't "cut the mustard!"

From A Proud Vietnam Veteran

quote:

Originally posted by oldmole:
Maybe, but pride goeth ...

There can't be that many Fred Hatters in O'Brien, Florida ... you might consider calling him up on the phone, rather than calling him out on the board ... if someone is posing, the real guy might not know about it. I don't see that he fits the poser pattern ... there are too many consistencies that argue against it, but that is just my opinion.

"But, bottom line: I can't recall an E-9 that I've met; that uses the "grammer" of a 16 year old; and seems to have "unusual difficulty" in constructing a simple sentence. "


I agree. His use of the initials SM referring to his retired grade could be interpreted to mean Sergeant Major, which if true, definitely causes me to question his status because he seems incapable of expressing himself readily, clearly, or effectively. That is absolutely, uncharacteristic of a genuine Sergeant major, in my opinion.

Furthermore, people who sign on as a members of this forum should realize they subject themselves to a vast universe of readers, many of whom may question irregularities found in one's profile. No need to be offended. Simply offer an explanation and/or correct any mistake. If you are a "poser" just remove yourself as a member. No useful purpose is served arguing with anyone who in fact is not who they claim to be. IMHO.

Thanks! Well Stated! And, of course, I agree!

From A Proud Vietnam Veteran

quote:

Originally posted by Tom4869:
"But, bottom line: I can't recall an E-9 that I've met; that uses the "grammer" of a 16 year old; and seems to have "unusual difficulty" in constructing a simple sentence. "


I agree. His use of the initials SM referring to his retired grade could be interpreted to mean Sergeant Major, which if true, definitely causes me to question his status because he seems incapable of expressing himself readily, clearly, or effectively. That is absolutely, uncharacteristic of a genuine Sergeant major, in my opinion.

Furthermore, people who sign on as a members of this forum should realize they subject themselves to a vast universe of readers, many of whom may question irregularities found in one's profile. No need to be offended. Simply offer an explanation and/or correct any mistake. If you are a "poser" just remove yourself as a member. No useful purpose is served arguing with anyone who in fact is not who they claim to be. IMHO.

Wonder what happened to RANGER9? He was such a "hero!"

quote:

Originally posted by RANGER9:
SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS HARD FOR ME TO SEE. WILL TRY TO WRITE IN SMALL LETTERS

Anyway, he did come back to let us know this:

----------------------

RANGER9

Member
Posted Mon 23 July 2007 07:51 PM Hide Post

well I hope this is better it takes a little longer but have to keep peace with the troops

-------------------

Seems his eyesight improved enough to find those small icons.

I wish him all the best!

From A Proud Vietnam Veteran

i love all you old gi's. nobody else could ever get so off track trying to prove something about someone else than a bunch of old soldiers. i really thought about joining the vfw when i got home just so i could sit around and drink and learn from the best about how to b.s.!