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Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

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Originally posted by Duster6:
When you have field grade Officers in the Army with their only concern is to go to Iraq or Afghanistan to get a Combat Action Badge...

This ain't 'Nam, they don't rotate in and out as individuals. Lesson learned from 'Nam, they rotate in and out as units now...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

True - and I saw my BN CDR get in front of his formation and vent his anxious hopes and prayers that the unit WOULD get picked to go to Iraq less than six months after returning from a year in Afghanistan. All his officers were nodding their agreement, the light of future brass reflecting in their eyes, making them unable to see the winces of their senior NCOs and the nervous looks on their junior soldiers. Just because those field-grade officers have to drag their units along with them does NOT make Duster6 wrong.

SAME-SAME FULDA ****S GUMMING UP THE WORKS!OUT DATED SENIOR OFFICER CORPS MANAGING INSTEAD OF LEADING.

Just can't see this happen.

Oh come on the GBs are out like cooks are out. Every few years you get that one or two people who don't know what they are talking about and they try and put together some farfetched reason to remove something. When I see the cooks get phased out then I will worry for the Green Berets. Oh and for those of you who didn't know the Army has been thinking about getting rid of cooks for years. I.E. my father enlisted in 1985 and they were talking about phasing cooks, I enlisted in 2005 and they are still talking about them cooks. SF has nothing to worry about.

Maybe all their budget, authorizations and such are in the black ops sections ... they'd like that, those snake-eaters would!

Never underestimate the stupidity of an "Arm Chair" General/Admiral.

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Originally posted by Aco275RGR:
LOL....Oh man, this guy is funny as hell....Anyone who took this article serious needs to just stand back and realize the dude that wrote this was smoking crack.....

So much bullshit...

This one was my favorite:

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The culture of the USMC will be even less amenable to the necessities of working with, through, and by indigenous people than the culture of the conventional Army. The Marines are a world-class service and a superb fighting force, but they are new to FID and new to unconventional warfare.

I do believe this general needs to do a bit of remedial reading.

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This one was my favorite:

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The culture of the USMC will be even less amenable to the necessities of working with, through, and by indigenous people than the culture of the conventional Army. The Marines are a world-class service and a superb fighting force, but they are new to FID and new to unconventional warfare.

I do believe this general needs to do a bit of remedial reading.

Mine too, this guy obviously knows nothing about the Corp's experience during the Banana Wars, our actions in Vietnam, and more currently in Anbar Province, Iraq. New to FID and unconventional warfare my arse!

general Westmoreland, during the VN war, authorized a special unit, trained at the British warfare school in malaysia, for the express purpose of tracking down 'charlie'. 11 platoons and detatchments were assigned to the various combat units. The job done was exemplory. These were the combat tracker teams.
Few people in the army today have ever even heard of them.
I'd hate to see the same thing happen to the SF, but anything is possible, especdially if it hurts combat effectiveness.

Bob

Check out the recently published Federal solicitation " SSC-CHARLESTON_MKTSVY_585E2" Sources Sought on FBO - this will support your intel on this issue of the Green Berets demise.

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p

If it weren't for Group, then every smoldering nothing would become a war. Every minor BS problem in the smallest berg would have become a conflagration. Compare the 'Stan to Iraq. SF theater v. big Army. All was well in the 'Stan until big units started kicking doors. Iraq didn't even have that spring board to any extent. The entire world is filled with examples on a daily basis where brains and brawn defeated the enemy before they even knew we were on the ground. If this is true, it's treason and the politicians and generals responsible should be convicted for providing aid and comfort to the enemy.

My patch was earned on many fronts and for the efforts of so few like me, so many didn't have to see, smell, and feel the blood, effort, and (yes) tears. No SF, then build an Army of 10 million and prepare the body bags. The American public will then ask what policy led to this.

This MUST STOP. I'LL BE DAMNED!

I'm not so sure that this is going to actually happen. I could be wrong because the Brass has a way of always overcomplicating things and then making them totally useless. Or just frigging things up all together from the get go. It sounds to me that some higher ups want to get higher up by being a part of something and getting their name on a document saying that they were part of a MAJOR change. I know i wouldn't want my name being a part of the sorry arse plan of axing the Army SF.
As far as making the Marines the main SOF force i don't see how they could handle the operational tempo as far as man power is concerned. That and they would have to pick up for where SF used to dominate; training indiginous forces in country. Eventually they would work it out, but why start putting extra pressure on any of the services when they are all ready experts in thier roles and most of the services are already streched too thin? hopefully this goes to the same place as most of the "good ideas" the "outstanding" higher ups have had: directly in the crapper

Hey, put an Admiral (former seal) in charge and what else do you expect.
Hopefully Admiral Olson will retire soon!
Olson assumes command

For those of you who may think this is paranoia or that the writer is "on crack"...be advised, Major General Guest is former Commanding Officer, USAJFKSWC&S, former CG 1st SOCOM, former CG USASOC, and President of Veterans of Special Forces. He knows what he's talking about.

General Guest makes some interesting and disturbing points here...it is a valid concern. The recent de-emphasis on UW and COIN operations in the field and at the Q-course suggests a Direct Action take-over of the SF mission (it's been tried before). Taking the School away from TRADOC and placing it under USSOCOM is not only a bureaucratic cluster-****, it is directly contrary to the mission of Special Forces. I always was a little concerned when the name was changed from JFK Center and Institute for Military Assistance (my personal alma mater under Joe Lutz)- because it described the mission of the school perfectly.

Let's face it, DA/FIDs is very popular and glamorous in the public eye and in appropriations - Rangers, SEALs, DELTA/JSOC types are romantic in the current environment...and they have their place...but Direct Action is only a small part of the Special Forces Mission. The primary mission of Special Forces IS NOT kicking in doors. Special Forces IS NOT supposed to be some kind of military SWAT team...there are other units built around that (DELTA, DEVGRU).

Another thing that has been leading up to this is the misidentification and misclassification not just in the public, but in the services, of Special Forces by name.

In many countries, the term "Special Forces" is a generic term used to identify all types of elite units, from paratroops, to MI types, to Commandos.

In the United States, Special Forces is a proper name for a specific Army unit.

There are no US Navy Special Forces

There are no US Air Force Special Forces

There are no US Marine Corps Special Forces

Rangers are not Special Forces. DELTA, or 1st SFOD-D is not a Special Forces unit (even though it's name seems to say different). Being a Q-course grad is not even a requirement for DELTA (maybe it should be).

A Special Forces trooper wears a Green Beret and a long tab...there are no other special forces in this country's military structure.

This diluting of the name and mission spells only trouble if the Army command structure becomes saturated with Direct Action only generals who are overly enamoured with the RANGER mission. If the Sterling Silver Ranger Brigade (one of Charlie Beckwith's phrases) winds up running the Army...SF as we know it might indeed be in trouble.

Let's hope not...but the way the world has spun (and this country with it) out of control the last 7 years, anything is possible.

What are they thinking up there in Washington? Then again who in Washington thinks? The Special Forces or the Green Beret has done more the War effort then any other Special Forces unit in the Military. Viet Nam was and is a very good example. How about the Mac V Sogs? That was one Special Unit in Nam, Not that anyone will talk about them. All they did was Highly Classified Operations there. Now they want to get rid of the Green Beret. That is so typical of the Military and our Government. I bet they didn't ask any of the Green Berets that are still in the military what they thought or how they feel? All the training they went through will be for what? Oh hey maybe they could transfer over to the Marines Special Forces that they want to create from scratch.? Makes sense to me, NOT!!!!!! No Green Beret wants to be a JAR HEAD for any reason. Some one needs to get their head out of their Butts and start working on the real issues. Getting our Vets their long deserved Benefits. Dave a former Viet Nam Vet.

I never had the good fortune to be one, but I had many good friends in and out of the green machine that did. All I can say is: SOMEBODY MUST BE DROPPING PURPLE HAZE.The GREEN BERETS ARE HERE TO STAY. 'HOO RAH'.KEEP HUMPIN.

Do not let this happen. As a former Green Beret,10th group, this would be a great mistake.The big brass has no idea what sf men go through.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 14797325,

The leg and airborne brass tried to disbain Special Forces after it was organized. JFK had the fore sight to know what a important role they would play. The West Pointers and the old school still wants to play conventinal warefare and it sure didn't work in Vietnam. General Abrams was lost in Vietnam because he couldn't role all over the country in a tank. Most senior officer are jealous of SF because they don't have the balls to take it or make the grade

SB (Vietnam 64 - 70)

It appears USSOCOM wants to take away SOF personnel and capabilities from USASOC and USASFC and retain control of those assets at SOCOM. This will never happen for two reasons. First and foremost, Department of the Army will not let that happen. Second, the Geographic Combatant Commanders (also joint commanders themselves - EUCOM, CENTCOM, SOUTHCOM, etc) will not let that happen. The Army won't give up that many personnel, regardless of MOS, and the GCCs will not give up OPCON of their current SF Group assets to a CONUS-based SOCOM commander who will then deploy these new Joint SOF units. No commander wants to lose control of their assets like that.

A related side point is this: every branch thinks they are the special-sauce, lettuce & cheese on a sesame seed bun. If SOCOM were to successfully do away with USASFC, then the argument can be made for blurring the distinctions between units of like capabilities between the services. Why do the Marines need to fly F18s off of carriers when the Navy already does? Why should the Army fly rotary wing aircraft for CAS when the Air Force has those nifty A-10 Warthogs? I don't think the service chiefs want to go down that road.

The purple uber-solier does not, and never will, exist in the military. And for all the increased "jointness" in military operations, the service chiefs want to protect their turf and the Chief of Staff of the Army is damn sure not going to let the USSOCOM commander in a joint billet (even if he currently is an Army general) influence the structure of a major combatant command within the Army.

This whole thing is just pie-in-the-sky concepts that boil down to the opinion of one general and his staff as to how they think the SOF community should look. The Green Berets are not going away because of someone's opinion. If you don't believe me, just take a look at the document referenced in the article. Tell me any common-sense leader will be able to decipher that sucker and conclude anything other than SOCOM has too many staff officers with time on their hands!

What is the going rate for creating a new acronym that means absolutely nothing....anybody know????

As a member of both the 7th and 5th Special Forces Groups and having commanded two different A Team in Vietnam I will be real pissed off if this disbandedment comes to pass. I know from experience that many generals have wanted to disband Special Forces for many years. They hated to see many of their top junior officers and NCOs leave to join the SF ranks.

For example, my request to go to Special Forces from the 82nd Airborne Div. recieved a "not only No but hell No" endorsement by the CG. Of course that endorsement was my ticket to SF. In those days SF didn't want anyone another unit was willing to let go. I think the same applies today. The non-SF generals have always hated SF. Things like this occurred back in the 60's and 70's so this is not some new threat. They just this time they want to disband SF with stealth tactics having failed with frontal attacks in the past.

I'm retired after 22 years, with 50% disability due to twice having broken my back, once in a jump and once in a motar attack in Vietnam, but have always been active in encouraging young men to go into the Army. However, if this disbandedment takes place then my recruiting efforts will come to a halt.

Jim K.
LTC Retired