There is a brand out called "Firestorm". I don't know much about the pistols, but thier specialty is concealed carry pistols. They look identical to Walther's, but half the price. All sub-compacts and compacts. A 9mm that is only 6 inches long and has a 13 rnd mag. .380's that are under $350, and a 7 rnd .45acp that is about 6 inches. If i wanted a pistol to defend the home, or myself, this is worth looking into. ImpactGunsOnline...take a look.

quote:

Originally posted by RHYNO506:
There is a brand out called "Firestorm". I don't know much about the pistols, but thier specialty is concealed carry pistols. They look identical to Walther's, but half the price. All sub-compacts and compacts. A 9mm that is only 6 inches long and has a 13 rnd mag. .380's that are under $350, and a 7 rnd .45acp that is about 6 inches. If i wanted a pistol to defend the home, or myself, this is worth looking into. ImpactGunsOnline...take a look.

This pistol is made by Bersa. Its an Argentine company. These pistols are so compact, and they even come in .45acp, 7 rnds. The price ain't bad either. I would much rather have a Bersa than a Taurus.

lovecheese45

You said glocks are large for concealment. The are ALOT of different glock models, some are large yes but they do make concealable subcompact models. I think most of a guns profile is the grip frame, so by making THAT smaller, like shorter and single stacked to make it thinner, you very much reduce the guns profile.

I had a question on CCW permits. I have two pistols. Can both be carried at once with one permit or is a second required?

I've only had a carry permit for about 9 months and originally carried a glock 22c. I like it alot, but its a fairly large gun, and coupled with a cheap holster and with warm weather coming along it won't be a concealed weapon it will just be a covered bulge. So I picked up a Taurus Millenium Pro pt111 9mm. I was told never sacrifice stopping power for conealability but figured it still had a decent sized mag. I wanted to know if thats a decent choice for the $$ and I'll need something other than that huge nylon Double Triple $10 holster. I don't know much about paddle or IWB holsters, any ideas? I'd spend 60 bucks on a holster if it let me carry my pistol with no one the wiser.

YellowFever,

Carrying more than one gun on your CCW depends on your state laws. I think some states list your pistol on it (?) , Washington does not. I would do a search of your local and state laws.

I use this holster for off duty concealed carry. http://www.blackhawk.com/product1.asp?P=4205&C=C0892
I carry a full size Springfield XD .45 in it. You should have no problem with a Glock 22. It carries it well, and tucks the butt into your side, reducing the print. I always dress around my pistol. My summer shirts are usually button front, short sleeve, squared hem on the bottom, and loose, or oversize. I wear untucked. In the summer, if I want to wear a t-shirt, i just pack my .38 Chief's Special, and about 4 speed strips of reloads.

I cannot stress enough, buy a good quality holster. It makes a world of difference. If you get a budget holster, you are wasting your money. Go to some gun stores. Get a seles guy. Try on the holsters, with either a red-gun, or, your UNLOADED gun. Expect to pay around $60 minmum for a decent holster. I've paid about $200 in the past, and I went to carrying the Blackhawk compact Askins, that is about $60.

And, ALWAYS carry a spare magazine for your semi-auto.

GeneSchubeck thats a very nice holster, and exactly the kind of thing I was looking for, not badly priced at all either.
What about the molded plastic ones, that are designed specifically for certain model pistols? Anyone have any experience with those?

The Blackhawk SERPA (molded plastic) is a very nice holster, but, it does not pull the butt in like the Askins. Try one on, and see how you like it. Due to retention requirements for my agency, I use a SERPA when in plainclothes, on-duty. If you are not going to worry about someone trying to disarm you by pulling on your holstered pistol, the plastic molded Uncle Mikes are affordable. They are just a little more fragile.

Paddle holsters are great, but typically, bulky if you buy a leather one.

If you want to get spendy, check out Kramer Gunleather or Mitch Rosen Leather. Beautiful, solid, outstanding holsters. THe Kramer horsehide rigs are amazing. I've got a Rosen, and a Kramer.

I'd stay away from shoulder rigs.

http://www.blackhawk.com/product1.asp?P=4204&C=C0891
thats another one that looks nice. Thanks for showing me the web address.
Yeah I got a uncle mikes shoulder harness. "Self adjusting" means it contorts itself all kinds of painful ways. Not impressed.

Lots of things to consider when you start packing.
At first, you’ll feel like there’s a big, neon sign floating over your head that says, “GUN!!” No matter how careful you are, you’ll feel like people are going to notice you any second. They won’t. They’re too interested in their own lives to pay attention to you. They’re oblivious to what’s going on around them. They aren’t looking for hidden guns. It doesn’t occur to them. They don’t care.

I’ve been carrying a gun daily here in Florida for over 20 years. I’ve been “made” twice, both times by friendly cops and both times because of the way I was carrying the gun. Large, ballistic Nylon fanny packs are obvious, even if you sew on a big NASA/ESA patch. A safari/photographer’s vest is even more obvious.

These days, I usually wear Hawaiian shirts over sleeveless t-shirts. When it’s windy, I hold the shirt while idly scratching my stomach. You learn little tricks to keep the gun covered. It’s not a big deal.

I used to carry a 1911 .45, sometimes a Commander size gun and sometimes a full-size one. Now, I carry a Glock 19 in a Blade-Tech paddle holster on the right side, a spare mag for a Glock 17 with a “+2” floorplate so it’ll hold 19 rounds plus a Shurefire light in a paddle on the left side and a KelTec .380 in my front left pocket.

When it comes to what you’re going to carry and where you’re going to carry it, so much depends on how you’re built. My chest is 12” bigger than my waist, so I can get away with things that someone with a bigger middle can’t. A good friend of mine has a waist that’s 8-10” bigger than his chest. He has to use an inside-the-waistband holster and crank his belt in tight to conceal his Sig .45. The trick is to learn how to dress around the gun(s).

A couple of months ago, my wife and I took her brother and our grandson to the Arabian Nights show in Kissimmee, Fl. When we walked in, there was a photographer there to take a family pic that they’d try to sell us later. The photog’s helper was taking people’s jackets and putting them on a small table. I was wearing a lightweight NRA Endowment Member jacket and all the hardware described above. The helper took my b-in-law’s jacket and then my wife’s. The kid wasn’t wearing one. Then he came to me.
Him: “May I take your jacket, Sir?”
Me: “No, that’s OK.”
Him: It’s for the picture.”
Me: “It’ll be fine.”
Him: “Is there some reason you don’t want to take it off?”
Me: “Do you know what a colostomy bag looks like?”
Him, eyes getting big and trying hard not to step back: Silence.

When I saw the picture later, I almost paid the $20 just for the expressions on my family’s faces.

Wow, hats off! What a clever way of staving them off! I will say though I had to google colostomy bag because I was unfamiliar with it. So I personally wouldn't choose that. It seems too uncommon to work don't you think?
And your right about wearing clothing around the firearm, Ive carried for only one year and have been made once, but it was my own mistake. I had on a jacket and had the pistol in the small of my back. I dropped my coffee and crouched to clean it and the jacket rode up clearly showing the pistol. I don't wear it there anymore. I just need to learn to be more careful. And your also right that I feel very conspicuous when I wear it out. Feels like everyone is looking, even though just watching other people shows they aren't. I'm sure there would be some pretty obvious reactions.
Oh and the only way I knew my gun was showing when I crouched was everyone stopped talking, so I turned around and all eyes were on my waist, and no one spoke until I left. It was two days after VT, I don't blame anyone.

Another couple of reasons not to wear a gun in the small-of-the-back position:
If you fall or are pushed backwards, you’ll land with a very hard object under your spine.
If you’re in a fight and on your back, you won’t be able to get to your gun.

For years I carried a small cal. automatic, however for civilized situations i.e. at home cities, I have chosen an S&W airweight, 12 oz. 38, 38+, and 357mag, hammerless, 5 shot.
I've always called these types of firearms, "no brainers". Not it requires no forthought on when to use them but, it's ready without jacking a shell into the chamber, a dud can be corrected by another trighter pull, it wont get hung up on the clothing and it's so light you forget about it. Use a cross body shoulder holster. Also select what strength shell you need and use concave bullets.

I have a cross body shoulder holster, maybe its that it was cheap but it s very uncomfortable. The shirt ride up under it during the day. Plus I LOATH button up shirts which would make it almost impossible to access. Thus I like the hip holster.

Shoulder holsters aren't popular here in Florida mainly because of the heat. They get real sweaty real fast. Air can't circulate under the straps. If they're made of leather, they soak up sweat and pretty soon you smell like an overheated horse. If they're made of Nylon, they soak up sweat and pretty soon you smell like an overheated you.

Injection molded Kydex belt or paddle holsters are thin, light, durable and cheap. They're also much faster than leather because they're so smooth.

People get supid around guns.

When I was working in Detectives, my partner and I stopped for lunch one day. As we were eating, two woman came in and sat at the table across from us.

After a couple minutes, one looked at my partner and said "do you have to have that with you?"

My partner was smoking and replied, "we're in the smoking sction."

"I'm not talking about your cigarette, do you have to have that gun with you?"

Both of us were wearing our badges in plain view, on our belts, next to our pistols.

I asked if she realized we were Police Officers.

She said, "I know that, I just don't think you need to carry those things all the time."

When I asked if she'd heard of Luby's Cafeteria, she just got a blank look.

Of course, I had to give him some crap about it later. I told him she said nothing to me because she could see I had a real gun, a 1911, he on the other hand, was carrying a Glock.

I didn't wear a badge on my belt up to a certain point in my early LE career.

I'd gotten out of my personal car, off duty, to head into a grocery store, and my jacket rode up exposing my gun/holster. Not thinking anything of it, I just pulled the jacket down and cut through the lot towards the store.

As I was crossing the main drive at the store entrance, I heard from my right, "HEY"! I turned and saw a local officer standing outside his squad door in the drive. He said, just loud enough for me to hear, "You'd better have a button with that thing". I slowly turned, slowly retrieved my badge and ID, displayed it, and slowly walked towards him. As he was able to make it out, he reholstered his pistol, which had drawn and been in his hand, pointed into the squad but ready to go.

He told me they'd had an armed robbery at the store a couple nights before. I never saw him cruising the lot behind me when I got out of my car.

Since that time, I wear a badge on the belt next to the pistol. And no more short jackets!

quote:

Originally posted by lovecheese45:
I do love the glocks, but they are sorta large for concealment. Great weapon though, fire through anything.

I've been accused of needing to eat a few more hamburgers (ie: I'm 6' 135#) & I can conceal a Glock 19 with no problems at all

quote:

Originally posted by Stormcharger:
There are only two reasons a handgun will 'blow up', both are due to the ammunition, not the firearm.

I know what ya mean, but there are more than "only" two reasons, and some of them do have to do w the firearm.

Defective bbls and chambers (poor heat treat, bad sizing, sloppy gunsmithing) plugged bbl (squibs, snow, mud), and guns firing out of battery due to basement gunsmithing, etc are a few I've seen.

I was reading through the forum and wanted to share a couple ideas.

First, I agree with the other poster who said that the fanny pack is just outdated now. It was great in the 90's when everyone had one, but now it just sticks out. I have used one for several years because I carry a full size pistol, but it is just "out of style". Second, I can't stand when I see someone just carrying one stuck in their waistband. That is asking to lose it. Get a holster.

5.11 makes what they call a tactical covert casual shirt. I haven't ordered one yet, but it looks promising. It is designed to hang over a concealment holster without printing.



Also, a fellow officer carries a Keltec .380 that has a clip on the side. (And I mean a clip, as in to attach to something, not a clip as in slang for a magazine.) Anyway, he slides the .380 into his pocket and clips it there. To most observers, it looks just like the folding blade knives that people clip to their pockets. He said Keltec may have sold the design to Ruger, but it is a decent gun. Very small and almost impossible to detect. I know .380 isn't what a lot of folks want for CCW, but realistically, when it comes to self defense, you will probably be almost on top of your attacker if you ever had to use it.

Personally, I am waiting to hear a little more about the new Beretta sub-compact version of the Px4. 3" barrel, 6.2" overall length, .40 cal carries 10+1. 9mm carries 13+1.

Say what you want about 9mm, but last weekend in Wal-mart, 2 people walked up to me and said, "Hey aren't you a cop?" I was squatting down comparing prices on deodorant of all things. Anyway, they just recognized me and wanted to ask a question, but if they had been threatening, just about anything is better than throwing a can of deodorant as a means of self-defense.

Just train with whatever it is you carry.

quote:

Originally posted by BrokenArrows:

quote:

Originally posted by Stormcharger:
There are only two reasons a handgun will 'blow up', both are due to the ammunition, not the firearm.

I know what ya mean, but there are more than "only" two reasons, and some of them do have to do w the firearm.

Defective bbls and chambers (poor heat treat, bad sizing, sloppy gunsmithing) plugged bbl (squibs, snow, mud), and guns firing out of battery due to basement gunsmithing, etc are a few I've seen.

Very true. However I have have achieved an outstanding saftey record by eliminating those variables to the safe operation of a firearm. Keeping things safe and simple is always better than risking your life or serious injury, either in training or when your life depends on it. Leave nothing to chance, use a quality firearm, and quality ammunition. Remember, you get what you pay for. There is usually a reason a product is less expensive than others on the market, so how much is your life and the lives of those you hold dear worth? I'm not saying that everyone needs to buy only expensive equipment to be safe, but I've also noticed that thinking and logical deduction is somewhat of a lost art these days. If you are unable or unwilling to do your due dilligence reguarding your own personal protection, then it's better to be safe than sorry.