I am a full time Police Officer. I work near a Small Boat Station where I see Coasties on the road on a daily basis. Occasionally, I have to stop these young Coasties for speeding. I ALWAYS extend professional courtsey to these individuals because it is the right thing to do. I have a friend that is a Police Officer and one of the guys he works with was recently boarded and given a $500.00 fine for not having a certain safety item on his boat. When the individual asked for some "Professional Courtsey" because he is a Police Officer, he was denied and still issued the citation. Can someone please tell me that this isn't what the Coast Guard is teaching its BO's.

Swimmer,

If you are stopping Coasties frequently, then by not citing them, you are setting a precedent which will be passed around the station. "Cops won't give you a ticket, go ahead and speed". Perhaps you should start tagging them.

No "professional Courtesy" exists for a boarding. Coasties aren't cops, so don't expect the same back.

Don't ever expect to receive any "pass" at anytime just because you are an LEO. That probably goes against your dept GO's and may set yourself and others up for an IA.

Swimmer,

All agencies are made up of individuals, and each individual makes a decision on a case by case basis. I have been pulled over and extended "professional courtesy" which I greatly appreciated (and which also had the desired effect of me slowing down). I have encountered prior service and other LEOs on the water who have been counseled and let go without paperwork, again on a case by case basis. Sometimes not though. Every situation is different. I don't have a blanket policy about giving LEOs a pass.

A couple points to consider: Coasties dont determine fine amounts when on scene during a bording (in most cases with the exception of summary settlements for select fisheries violations). A processing center and independent review typically handles that. The decision to cite does rest with the BO of course, and some will look the other way if the violation is minor and the boater is being cooperative. Some won't. That's just the luck of the draw. Same as with cops.

Two, no one, especially cops, like to have a badge or credentials flashed in their faces with an expectation/demand for being let off. That is the opposite of professional courtesy.

There may be more to your friends story about the $500 hit, but I'm guessing the violation was at least higher than a "warnable". Some violations result in mandatory termination of voyage, which is almost certianly going to come with some paperwork.

There is nothing in the curriculum at the MLEA that discusses giving a pass to other LEOs, and I suspect that wasn't "officially" taught at your academy either. But rest assured the concept is out there. It's an individual BOs choice as to how to proceed.

I don't think the "professional courtesies" are handed out quite as much as they were many years ago... That old "ethics" thing comes in to play.. along with the CYA.

Wray...

xswimmer,
first off i'd like to thank you for giving those guys some courtesy. and here is how it goes:
if a BO told your friend that it was a 500 fine...he was BS his way through the boarding. BO's do not give a monetary fine. We don't have that luxury like Police Officers have*. The district hearing officer is the person who gives the fine. SO...
9 times out of 10, the hearing officers send a letter which is a slap on the wrist. Unless it was a second or third offense. In my experience thats the way it goes. I've been a BO for seven years and it usually goes that way.
The BO should have told your friend that he will receive a letter in the mail in 6-8 weeks from the hearing officer of the actions he/she will have to take. if he was missing something, he may just need to provide proof like a receipt of purchasing the item...

Second: the professional courtesy part...that BO is probably a rookie or one of those guys who will give his mother a ticket too, and we all know at least one!



*only certain instances a BO can give a monetary fine

quote:

Originally posted by xswimmer2006:
I am a full time Police Officer. I work near a Small Boat Station where I see Coasties on the road on a daily basis. Occasionally, I have to stop these young Coasties for speeding. I ALWAYS extend professional courtsey to these individuals because it is the right thing to do....

Wow. Sorry to hear that! I'm not saying what the BO did was right, but here's a slightly different perspective on the professional courtesy issue:

A USCG Boarding Officer gets aboard a boat. The boat is underway without required safety equipment. The BO has a problem-- either let the operator off with a warning (and take the risk that later that day, the boat gets into a dangerous situation, turns into a SAR case, and someone ends up dead because of the safety issue) or cite the operator on a 4100. As LT Gris (LEDETOIC) noted above, the individual BO has no control over the eventual size of the fine that the operator receives. (As an aside, that policy needs to be reviewed & in my opinion changed to give the BO more control).

I know that speeding in a car is a safety issue too, but out on the water there is a difference. If a car is in trouble, it can pull over to the side of the road. If a boat is in trouble, people can easily end up dead. That might be the reason that 'professional courtesy' is a bit harder to expect out on the water.

My personal experiences with local/state LEOs out on the water have been good. It's been a couple of years since I've done boardings, though. Usually the presence of a LEO aboard comes out when you ask if there are weapons aboard. One person says yes & identifies themselves as a LEO. I ask where the weapon is, and tell them to keep it where it's at while we're aboard.

In a couple of instances, state LEOs have asked me politely what my authority/jurisdiction is for boarding vessels in state waters. No problem-- I explained how our jurisdiction overlaps with theirs and how the CG can/does work with local/state agencies all the time. I also explain why it's critical that they have the required safety gear. Many people view boating as purely recreational and don't consider what might happen when weather/machinery/etc heads south. Result? (at least in my experience) there's a healthy respect on both sides. They see me and my team as professionals; we pay them the respect they deserve AND get our job done.

However, if I got aboard a vessel and had a LEO immediately flash a badge at me expecting me to pass them up, I'd be a little hesitant to just pass the vessel up and keep going. The reason for that? Boardings aren't (necessarily) done the same way Terry stops are done for cars...they're more an administrative inspection than a reasonable suspicion stop.

Having said all of that, there's no substitute for experience or training. Not that I've got a wealth of either, but there's varying degrees of USCG Boarding Officers out there (as I'm sure there are varying degrees of police officers too). Charlieg2380 nailed it above.

I definitely understand your point... Does mine make any sense?

I once had to chase a go-fast off the Keys for about five miles before getting him stopped. Once he did, he said he just wanted to see if we could catch him. Then he whips out his Miami Firefighter badge and asks for "Professional Courtesy". I said, "Ya, like you just gave us?"

Turned out his buddy riding along had just gotten out of prison for smuggling.

He was all ticked off and it was funny because he said, "Maybe if you guys are up in Miami I can return the favor." My FMP buddy had the best response..."If I need you up in Miami that'll be cause my truck is on fire. If you put that piece of crap out, I'm gonna be mad."

Don

My friend and I were having this discussion a few days ago. My thoughts are that it can go either way, it COULD be an ethics issue in my opinion, it all depends on the situation. If I were in that BOs position I would have sent him to the dock with a warning to avoid any safety issues on the water. "Professional Courtesy", to me, means that because both parties are experts when it comes to public service and safety, they know that when you let them off with a warning, they better damn well take it to heart because they know what can happen if they dont because of their own experiences on the job.

It also has to do with comradery and knowing that that person is very probably a good person and you know that he simply made a mistake and will amend it as soon as possible; whereas if it were just some guy off the street and whom you dont know, well he could be anyone and do anything and does not deserve the same respect and consideration as fellow public servants.

We are all in the same family because we serve a common goal, and because of that we know one another better and have common ideals and aspirations, or else we wouldn't be in the jobs that we are in.

Like I said it all depends on the situation, my point is that, in my honest opinion, professional courtesy is not always unethical, if carried out responsibly.

But that's just my opinion.

couple of more things to consider:

1) With VERY VERY few excpetions, none of this stuff 'goes on your record.'

2) It is likely that anything fixed promptly will in effect be called a wash.

xswimmer2006,
i have been pulled over recently for going 3 over and asked for professional courtesy and was denied. the officer was extremly rude to me and my family.

ok, i wasn't gonna go there, but -

I have never, NOT ONCE, asked for any professional courtesy. Now, I have seemed to MAYBE have been the recipient of it. Or maybe it was the "Good Morning Sir" "Yes Sir" "No sir" and "Thank you Sir" that ended up catching me a break.

Out of curiosity... would our DOD brothers and sisters ever expect "professional courtesy" from state/local LE officers?

There is no such thing as "professional Courtesy". That's just a made up expression. Treat the person with respect, don't be a jerk, don't demand, don't badge, don't flash your BO card, don't be stupid.

It's amazing how people (demand) to be let off all the time. If you buzz me without me asking, the next line is: "Nice,now let me see your DL and paperwork. Press hard. Make four copies. Drive safe now". I don't expect to be let off if my kayak is out of compliance, I expect to get what's coming to me. Likewise you should not expect to get away with speeding, etc. We don't always give tickets, we sometimes just warn, based on the attitude of the driver and the violation.

In my opinion, "Professional Courtesy" meant me having enough respect for their job and following the law so a Deputy/Officer doesn't end up spending time dealing with me.

Don

Seems to me that ASKING fo "professional courtesy" is neither professional nor courteous.

quote:

Originally posted by Ex_CG_GM:
Seems to me that ASKING fo "professional courtesy" is neither professional nor courteous.

I don't always agree with you, but on that statement, I do. I believe professinal courtesy, is slowing down, obeying the traffic laws so the police don't have to pull you over.

There were a couple times when I was young (and you wore your uniform ashore) that I was pulled over for speeding or drag racing and didn't get a ticket. Highly likely that was due to being in uniform, but I never asked for any special consideration.

Asking for the courtesy may be a little too much. but it can easily be asked for with out asking for it.
The last time i was pulled over by FHP (Florida Highway Patrol) u know the guys with radars in there eyes...anyway.
I had my gun with me which i carry everywhere...informed the trooper that i was a LEO with the USCG and carrying a gun, he asked me for my ID or badge...explained us Coasties dont carry badges but here is my concealed weapons lic. and he let me off. Told me not to put my self out to be a target. I knew he was coming and pulled over before he got behind me, my vehicle has a DHS sticker on the back and I had my DHS hat on which i noticed him looking at both.
SO my point is, dont wait for a cop to pull you over if you know he's coming for you, get those silly stickers they sell in the exchange, $1.60 saved me over $150 and be courteous, and provide the same courtesy you would like as a LEO.
As a BO i have let off a bunch of Firefighters and other LEO, with just simply asking for life jackets. In my neighborhood even my wife was let off with a warning because the police officer saw here dependent ID. And she didn't even mention it.
now that is professional courtesy.

I'd like to give you folks two examples of how Professional Courtesy can come back to bite you.

1) Back in the 80's, a USCG Auxiliary boat pulled into the Ocean Reef Club in North Key Largo. I wasn't there but was told they were in uniform with flags flying....they also had a cabin full of marijuana bales that they were smuggling in. They were all arrested.

2) Maybe around 2000, an FHP trooper pulled over a Monroe County (FL Keys) detective who was drunk. The trooper tried to do the detective a favor and made him park his car and then gave him a ride home.

Once home, the detective grabbed another car and went back out driving. He t-boned a car driven by a MCSO K-9 Sgt's wife who was severely injured. I don't know if the trooper was allowed to keep his job.

Don

quote:

I don't know if the trooper was allowed to keep his job.

Seems to me he might have at least a civil culpability if not a criminal one!