|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||
Military.com Forums Coast Guard Discussions Maritime Law Enforcement Law Enforcement Concealed Carry LAW|
Go
|
New
|
Find
|
Notify
|
Tools
|
Reply
|
|
Member |
I carry...off duty. Or maybe I don't. Why do I want to tell everyone in the world that I may have a handgun (or three) on my person all the time?
LAst year, one the way home from work, in full CBP Officer BDU, with gun belt on (you'd be amazed how many people wear a uniform to work and either have their gun belt and gun, in a bag, over their shoulder, not ready for immediate use) I walked into my bank. They unlocked the door for me...as I walked in they said where were you 2 hours earlier? They had been robbed - felons wearing bullet proof vests; semi-auto pistols - stolen get away car and on the freeway back to Detroit in a matter of minutes..got away with 5-6 banks. In uniform I would have been a dead duck...dead Customs Officer; all the bad guy sees is badge - meaning cop, meaning shooting... My training taught me that more often then not, off-duty it is better to be a trained witness instead of a hero. Walking into a bank, in civvies, even with a concealed weapon, my training would dictate what action I need to take - either be compliant and be a witness or take other action. Won't know what I will do unless I am in the situation - I know what I would do in order to make the right decision; don't mean to say I would be clueless...that's where training and experience comes into play - boarding a 65' yacht transiting from San Diego to Redondo Beach is not as risky as boarding a 49' ketch suspected of smuggling 3000+ pounds of Thai Pot; although the ketch denied having any weapons aboard, we found a fully automatic M16, 920 rounds of ammo and instructions for the grenade launcher. Ron Heard, our GM1 was most reassuring manning the MaDeuce that night since the Old Man (Stan Breedlove) put the VENTUROUS about 20 yards abeam... My points are: carrying a gun concealed off-duty is a burden and also a greater responsibility then while in uniform. Ask yourself this question: If you are carrying a firearm on-duty and you shoot someone in the performance of your duties do you honestly believe that the Coast Guard will support you 100%? OK, now you are on liberty, at Walmart, someone knocks a 70 year old woman down, bumps into you as he is making his get away and you shoot and kill him. Will the Coast Guard support you 100% for that? If you even have a twinge of doubt you may (even if you become allowed to) not want to carry. Personally I am like Don - I'd take my chances with a jury but when I was doing boardings in the late 80's I didn't have a warm fuzzy feeling about Coast Guard Legal supporting me in a shooting - even if 100% justified. Not too many people I knew felt different about it - it didn't deter me though - if I draw my gun, shoot to stop someone and stop them, no matter what happens afterwards I have to live with it; not you, not anyone else - I would like to think that I know when to shoot or don't shoot so I am not worried about it; I hope I never have to use my gun to stop someone but I know if I have to I will... |
|||
|
|
CG Forums Moderator Mom never liked you, you son of a...  |
Carrying on-duty or off-duty, it doesn't matter, as long as you set your mental trigger to defense of life (yours or someone elses), you won't have a problem, as long as you were within your agency's guidelines.
|
|||
|
"Does anyone know where the love of God goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours?" - Gordon Lightfoot |
I strongly suggest if anyone is comfronted with this scenerio, your weapons stays put. This type of crime comes nowhere near justifying deadly force, of course unless the guy is armed with a deadly weapon and is threatening to use it. Don |
|||
|
|
Basic Training |
I guess it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by six
|
|||
|
Experienced Member |
Isn't WZDTIM cute? He's my new steady boyfriend! He follows me around from forum to forum, so I thought I would do the same for him. What a cutie pie!  |
|||
|
|
Member |
Exactly. Now, I am not the "paranoid" type, but I like knowing that I can defend myself in situations such as the above...and in extreme cases, other persons. No 'hero' mentality here. Just a sheer desire to die of natural causes or at least in the midst of doing something worthwhile, not at McDonalds or in the mall. This shi+ happens EVERY SINGLE DAY, EVERYWHERE. I'll just say that I'm proud to be in WA state, and that I very much adore their process for CCW. But if I ever go back to NY or HI, especially HI where you CAN'T carry EVER, well....I just dont know  On a separate note...what do ya'll think about carrying in a Federal Park or Forest where it is banned. Cougars, bear, etc.? YES, we know it is illegal. What are your feelings on it though? |
|||
|
Basic Training |
Just another "health" reason not to eat at McDonalds!
|
|||
|
Basic Training |
This is the best way to look at it. regardless of who what when where and way the main question is “Were you confident? and Was it justified?” Confident is where you can state who trained you or how you believe you are confident at knowing who is your target , how well your marksmanship is, and do you believe you can hit your target and why? Being in law enforcement you can state yes because of training. Coast Guard is tougher to argue but if in a career where law enforcement is involved or even weapons defense (defending you or others) then now were on the same page. Both teach: Who to shoot, When to shoot, and Why to shoot? Justified is the key! Can you justify why you had to shoot? If you can answer yes I don’t see why there’s a big debate. “ I shot him to save me and many vs. let one to shoot many and me” Any questions? Tell me if this is not true: Lets say a random woman is being mugged and beaten by a random suspect, than a stranger knocks out the suspect and saves the woman’s life, it would be on the news that the stranger is a hero, the suspect is in jail, and the victim is happy and says she loves the stranger, stranger is given the key to the city, and then it will all fade away. End of story ( I say 2 weeks at most) But, If it was an off duty law enforcement officer or a military personal, there would be media everywhere, law suites, “this is why hate cops”, new laws will be made, protest, no police should carry guns off duty, gun control, and that’s just to start. God only knows how long this would drag on! ( This would never end!) And forget about what to do about it: Ban weapons and off duty concealed: The world knows were un-armed! Keep guns: People shoot themselves or others, some will abuse it, accidents happen. “Off duty officers and gun nuts are not smart and kill because they can and abuse there powers” speech Gun control: 50/50 make a New law and its either to strong or not enough. Shoot and be a hero and expect a headache, or let them defend themselves and expect depression. Its mainly about what YOU do, why YOU did it, and how YOU did it! |
|||
|
Member |
There is no training that the Coast Guard offers that prepares someone to carry off duty.
Besides, a lot of Coasties have enough trouble carrying on duty. |
|||
|
Basic Training |
Enough already. You want to carry concealed, go get a PERMIT!!!
|
|||
|
|
Basic Training |
Where did you pull the "Have enough trouble carrying on duty" statement from? I worked LE out of Station Miami and carried every day I went to work, I personally never saw another Coastie have any "Trouble" with duty carry? Before you insinuate negative bullshit about Coasties performing LE duties that require them to carry a firearm you need to think about who and what you represent. You should act and speak like the PO you are, reservist or not you are still accountable. Ever hear of Esprit de Corp? Like my Grandmother always said, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. I have had Police and sheriff's sweep me with the muzzle of their duty weapon, on and off the range, never once had a fellow Coastie do that. If you spend enough time around people handling weapons, you will experience this. Your'e messin with my emotions smokey. |
|||
|
Member |
My police dept also does not have any training specific to off-duty carry, and qualifies you for duty/off-duty carry with the same course. But I carry, every time I leave my home. To me, as long as I can shoot straight, that's all the training I need. You just have to have the right mindset, that if at all possible, it is much better to be the best witness ever than use your weapon when you don't have to off duty. The thing that, I believe, separates my department from the CG is simply the amount of digging done prior to hiring. My background investigator traveled to different cities to find something wrong with me, and I had to take at least 3 written psychological tests and sit for an hour with two psychologists who picked me apart. Even with all that, some cops (i.e., the Wisconsin incident) still fall through the cracks. If the Coasties who carry off-duty go through all that, then I'm all for them carrying. But there were plenty of BTM's and some BO's I would not trust carrying a weapon off-duty. Nature of being in the military.
|
|||
|
|
CG Forums Lead Moderator Something Wicked This Way Comes  |
Perhaps you can talk to the on duty SN who got shot in the knee by an on duty MK3 in the comms room at Sta Ft Lauderdale a few years ago. Oh wait, you cant because the on duty SN is now medically retired because of that incident, and needs to have his leg removed. The on duty MK3 went to Court Martial. So before you chew out someone for insinuating, and question his position as a Petty Officer, and former XPO, perhaps you should do some research on the unit next door to Sta Miami. Keep having fun. T |
|||
|
|
Member |
Just as there are many cops, both state and federal, that I have encountered that haven't mastered the basics. I suppose it depends on your skills and what you have experience. By and large, Coasties do very well across the board. I have trained over 2000 shooters, both Reserve and Active, Police Officers and MLE Officers, and it is relatively even across the board. Now, if you want to do a comparison of skills, then it depends on who you are talking to and what they bring to the table. Knowing the former XPO, I doubt he would even meet the MLE/FP (MSST) standards, but that's just my opinion, and of course, only constructive criticism. LOL to Scott. Every agency has their 10%, just as the CG does. You have to critically analyze the argument, and make appropriate comments based on requisite training, experience,and totality of the circumstances.
Hammer |
|||
|
|
Basic Training |
I think now its more weather or not someone would use there concealed in the wrong way....Although i do like the idea1 |
|||
|
|
Experienced Member |
Both Scott and the guy from Sta Miami have valid points; the guy from Miami is actively involved every day in L.E.; his daily familiarity should breed good weapons discipline in everybody ...
the flip side is a place like MSO Mobile, where guys carried maybe 5% of the time ... just enough to where unfamiliarity can breed bad weapons discipline. As their supervisor, I was distinctly responsible for their training, but I know I cannot be at every boarding evolution or situation. Personally, I know of two incidents of bad weapons discipline: the first was a BM just before my time that killed a watch room $hitcan by clearing his weapon inside, instead of outside at the clearing station. The second was the SK from Kodiak carrying a .45 in a shoulder holster off duty in bear country. Weapon fell out of the holster, butt down ... as he reached for it, the weapon discharged and shot most of his thumb off. Lucky guy. |
|||
|
|
"Does anyone know where the love of God goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours?" - Gordon Lightfoot |
Unfortunately, these types of accidents are hardly limited to the Coast Guard. Anyone remember a few years back that Federal Agent, I can't remember if he was DEA or ATF, teaching gun safety in a school classroom and ended up shooting himself in the leg? Talk about the Southwest Airlines commercial, "Wanna get away?"  Don |
|||
|
|
CG Forums Lead Moderator Something Wicked This Way Comes |
Would that be this guy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj4yUpR1PB0 It wouldnt be so bad if he hadnt said what he said 3 seconds before it happened. Social I spent 3 years at MSO Mobile, and never carried a firearm. Not once. And that was after the incident in 1996 where the Station 41 was shot at. T |
|||
|
|
CG Forums Moderator Mom never liked you, you son of a... |
7116151: Do us all a favor and look up ALCOAST 345/07 and read it (Sorry for those who can't access it, it's INTERNET RELEASE NOT AUTHORIZED) and without divulging what it says, render an opinion on it. Coasties need the additional PQS and need to go to the range more than twice a year. 'nuff said. |
|||
|
|
Member |
Relax sparky, I was just making fun of the Coast Guard. You and I both know that the "shooting twice a year if you're lucky" standard is a joke. Like you, I also carried a sidearm for many years at a Station. But loading and unloading a pistol and keeping it in a holster does not make one proficient with handling a sidearm. Training and experience do. So chill out, Mr. Private Profile. Go have a cookie or something.
Darren, are you still mad because I poke fun of you Steven Seagals? To be perfectly honest with you, I bet I could meet the Steven Seagal standards. However, I have to warn you - I might not be in tip top shape due to not getting the MSST required 12 hours a day in the weightroom. Just too busy chasing and arresting and fighting suspects, I guess. Ah, Fred's Place....good times.  |
|||
|
| Previous Topic | Next Topic | powered by eve community | Page 1 ... 38 |
