Good call, for those of you interested, check into your states requirements. Previously in another state as a non rate I submitted my paperwork for the permit, and instead of taking the class just gave the judge a copy of my BTM PQS, my signed BTM letter, and a copy of range scores and that was more than enough to keep me from paying for the class.... Depends on the state but it might save you a few bucks.

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What do MP's carry as creds? Is it just thier military ID card, or are they given something else?

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Badges and brassards. No special credentials, just their military ID's. MPI and CID get special credentials as criminal investigators.

However, MP's do their jobs 24/7. They train for their job in Basic/AIT and do it as E-1's, E-2's, & E-3's. They don't have to wait until E-4 before they have LE authority.

But they DON'T carry off duty. At the end of shift, the badges & guns are turned into the armory, unless they're in a combat/field environment. If they are NCO's, they have UCMJ authority to give orders and maintain order as other NCO's of other MOS's. No more, no less.

EastCoastMk: So District Legal says pass it up the chain. Who is next to make a decision? Is there even anyone in the CG that can say yes or no based upon the way the law is written now?

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Originally posted by JerryG:


Badges and brassards. No special credentials, just their military ID's. MPI and CID get special credentials as criminal investigators.

However, MP's do their jobs 24/7. They train for their job in Basic/AIT and do it as E-1's, E-2's, & E-3's. They don't have to wait until E-4 before they have LE authority.

But they DON'T carry off duty. At the end of shift, the badges & guns are turned into the armory, unless they're in a combat/field environment. If they are NCO's, they have UCMJ authority to give orders and maintain order as other NCO's of other MOS's. No more, no less.

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As a MP your badge is issued to you. You don't have to turn it in at the end of the shift. Also the MPs in kodiak are issue a special ID signed by the CO of the base.
The way i'm reading this seems pretty cut and dry to me. I'm authorized by the CG to do all the stuff thats in this law and i have an ID. Yeah i may have to prove all of it but i don't see that being a problem. It doesn't say "must have credentials", it say indentification from your agency.

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It doesn't say "must have credentials", it say indentification from your agency.

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Good point. It would be nice at least if our ID's said DHS somewhere on it.

As a 4 yr street officer, I feel that this law has some serious liabilities. I really do not like the amount of guns being concealed legally as it is now the additional folks carrying!! Traffic stops with drunks are bad enough, now with the posibility of a kid just qualifying as a BTM concealing on liberty. I just don't like it.

Having had to use deadly force on the job, I don't want to have to do that off-duty.
I don't carry off duty, to much trouble and if I was to carry when I was with my family and had to use force, I don't want to imagine. Why subject them to that type of violence??

The reason I keep bring this up about the ID thing is that most officers in this country that don't work near 'Coastie Country' don't have a clue about our authority. Subsection (d) under Sec. 926B only states, "The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer." This section needs major work. I forsee some coastie on thier way cross-country on a PCS move going through the mountains somewhere and get stopped, or in some other way, contacted by law enforcement. You state you have a firearm and the officer want's to see your creds. You show him your military ID which states nothing about LE authority. Sure it meets the requirements, but the officer isn't going to have a clue and your going downtown until it gets figured out. You'll eventually be released after tons of phone calls are made, but why go through the trouble? If I stop someone who's packing, and they show the CG ID, I don't know if thier really an LEO or a (no offence) YN3 who has some LE fasination who couldn't hack it and get the qual. There still has got to be some other type of ID/creds associated with the CCW. At that point of the contact, to me, it doesn't matter what the law states, it's my perception at the time, and I'm doing whatever I need to do to be able to go home at night.

Absolutely, my previous mention of a LEO CCW ID/Permit or some kind of equivalent would take care of that. There needs to be some way for the LEO questioning you to know you are qualified (with the firearm) and have arresting authority. Our ID's while they do fit the description of this law, don't say either. I can't see carrying around a copy of 14USC, my most recent range scores, BO letters, etc., to prove I'm qualified. According to this law, you would almost have to do that in order to avoid being "hauled down to the station" to hash it all out.

This isn't the only potential ID issue I've seen recently. As you all know many Coasties are getting deputized by the US Marshalls in order to have LE authority shoreside. The members I know (only about 4) haven't received any special badge/ID card or anything official to prove they hold that authority. I do know one guy that took the certificate he was issued by the Marshalls and shrank it down with a copy machine, then laminated it to look like an ID card. Very Mickey Mouse like!
I think with the CG's growing HS and LE missions it might be time to take a serious look at giving us something that looks a little more official.
Just my $.02

wow!

Kinda interesting that such a subject gets more attention, more replies and more in- depth discussion than someone coming on here asking a question..... or for advice

Coast Guardsman shot to death, two charged

The Associated Press - July 27, 2004

Two cousins from Duplin County were charged in the fatal shooting of a Coast Guard petty officer, police said Monday

Brian Colletti, 24, was shot to death at about 2:20 a.m. Sunday near a city parking deck, Officer Linda Rawley said. He would have been 25 next Monday.

James Lee Moore, 18, was charged with second degree murder and his cousin Jefferey Junior Moore, 21, was charged with being an accessory after the fact, Rawley said. Both men are from Wallace.

More arrests are possible, police said.

Witnesses told police that Colletti, a Fayetteville native, had argued with a group of Marines shortly before he was approached and shot by a second group of men, but the events didn't appear to be related.

Family said Colletti had recently re-enlisted in the Coast Guard for six more years, and was on leave from his station in Ocean City, Md. He would have turned 25 on Monday.

The Moores appeared Monday in New Hanover County District Court and entered not guilty pleas.

James Lee Moore is held on $500,000 bond. Jeffrey Moore was jailed on $250,000 bond.

Colletti joined the Coast Guard in 1998 and was stationed at Ocean City in September 2003 after duty at Oregon Inlet, north of Cape Hatteras. He was a certified boat coxswain, which qualified him to command a 47-foot motorboat with a crew of four on missions that included search and rescue.

I just am concerned about the number of concealed weapons on the street as it is. I have been very impressed with the changes that I have seen in the CG since 9/11 and the increased responsibility that has been given to all active duty and reserve, the increase in personal pride and profesionalism is evident. I know that state and municipal police that I have been incontact with have quite a bit of respect for the CG and the work we do. But at the same time being involved in LE should not be carte blanche to carry concealed anywhere in the US. Unless an easily checked data base can be utilized to confirm credentials. (We all know when LEAPS, LEIS, WMS, and other LE data bases are OOC that you have to trust the hair on the back of your neck). Does the carrying off-duty make the nation safer, I can not say. Yet, anyone having a bad day and consuming some liquor or worse (RX drugs and liquor) is a bad combination, no matter what they do LE authority the have while on duty. Believe me I have been on duty and faced that scenerio.

Be safe and do everything in your power to make it home to you family after your shift!

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Originally posted by 50Surfer:
Yet, anyone having a bad day and consuming some liquor or worse (RX drugs and liquor) is a bad combination, no matter what they do LE authority the have while on duty. Believe me I have been on duty and faced that scenerio.

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Just like the authority the CG gives you, this law will demand a certain level of responsibility and accountability for your actions. If you're having a bad day cosuming alcohol or whatever you should know not to be carrying. If you are and your caught then you deserve to go down. It's going to depend on each individual that is authorized under this new law to be responsible about it.

This has made for an interesting read. There are always different schools of thought on just how broad our authority is with regards to L/E. Even our own policy manual is vague and confusing. LAW allows us very broad enforcement powers. POLICY restricts those powers considerably.

What follows is an opinion. Some of our contraints of power/authority are based on the recognition that our officer's level of training is minimal when compared to the training that other LEO's go through. The majority of our field level law enforcement is conducted by 1st and 2nd tour Coasties with an average of less than 3 years of LE experience. This statement is based on observations of 4 Stations and 2 PB's. On top of that, LE is only a small part of what we do. So the bottom line is our cops are minimally trained, inexperienced and over tasked. So our organization has implemented some restrictive measures to protect our officers and our agency from liability.

I'm like many of you. I've been doing this LE thing a while and know how to conduct my affairs on the LE front. I also have well placed concerns about the "quality" of some of our certified officers. By the way, every LE agency has certain officers within their ranks that concern them. Some of you seem to throw a blanket halo over the head of every sworn peace officer. I'll tell you, as someone who has frequent liaison with other departments and is a state certified and sworn peace officer with a county LE agency, the CG does not have a monopoly on undertrained, poorly qualified or otherwise scary cops.

So how does all this tie into the topic at hand? I have read and re-read the wording of the law. Coast Guard certified law enforcement officers carrrying their CG ID are covered by the law. Period. There is nothing gray about it. It should not surprise you that a legal office is approaching this with trepidation. There is risk in saying "yes, the law applies to our people." There is no risk in interpreting it otherwise or not interpreting it at all. Some interesting questions have been raised about our ID's. No, our ID's don't reflect that we are certified by our agency. The law doesn't require that of our ID. How would a street officer be able to distinguish me from an uncertified HS? Valid concern. As a reserve sheriff's deputy, what would I do if I encountered someone with a concealed weapon who presented himself as an off duty Coastie with ID? I'd do as I'm trained and interview the person. I'd have to have probable cause to believe he was in violation of the law to run him in, arrest him or otherwise detain him beyond a reasonable amount of time. If not, I subject myself to civil liability.

It doesn't appear to me that the law leaves any room for agencies to bar their certified officers from carrying off duty under the provisions of the law. The law listed a whole string of disqualifiers, but did not appear to allow agency restrictions on its certified officers.

How will the Coast Guard deal with this? Here's my guess. It will drag its collective feet for a long period of time before taking an official stance. When it finally takes an official stance, that position will squarely straddle the fence.

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The law listed a whole string of disqualifiers, but did not appear to allow agency restrictions on its certified officers

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If this is true, then I don't see the point of the CG saying anything at all. If they can't squash it, they'd would almost have to endorse it. Doing nothing at all keeps them off the hook. I'd be surprised if anything comes out in the near future. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Concealed Carry isn't that big of an issue so I'm not sure why some are making it such. In most states, any responsible citizen can carry a firearm concealed with minimal paperwork - a comprehensive background check and usually a mandatory gun safety course or proof of honorable military service. Its not that mind-intensive - millions have concealed carry permits and they are rarely abused. A lot of CRIMINALS are pissed that people can carry. Unless you live in some liberal s##thole state like Massachusetts, New York, or New Jersey - it shouldn't be a big issue.....

Or one could just resort to writing off guns for personal use as being "bad".........Go ahead - you be a victim to the criminal element. Not me though..........I will never endanger myself or my family for LACK of self-defense.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 50Surfer:
I just am concerned about the number of concealed weapons on the street as it is. I have been very impressed with the changes that I have seen in the CG since 9/11 and the increased responsibility that has been given to all active duty and reserve, the increase in personal pride and profesionalism is evident. I know that state and municipal police that I have been incontact with have quite a bit of respect for the CG and the work we do. But at the same time being involved in LE should not be carte blanche to carry concealed anywhere in the US. Unless an easily checked data base can be utilized to confirm credentials. (We all know when LEAPS, LEIS, WMS, and other LE data bases are OOC that you have to trust the hair on the back of your neck). Does the carrying off-duty make the nation safer, I can not say. Yet, anyone having a bad day and consuming some liquor or worse (RX drugs and liquor) is a bad combination, no matter what they do LE authority the have while on duty. Believe me I have been on duty and faced that scenerio.

Be safe and do everything in your power to make it home to you family after your shift![/QUOTE

Just a reminder that carrying a concealed weapon and being intoxicated is a felony regardless. The chances of running into someone who is intoxicated and has a firearm is real - but the chances of it being a concealed carry permit holder is very slim. CCW licenses aren't handed out like candy. Only a complete IDIOT would abuse their Concealed Carry permit and get loaded with a concealed or unconcealed firearm present.......

I personally think that anyone involved in LE or the military who is RESPONSIBLE should be allowed to carry concealed anywhere in the United States. If perps can carry illegal firearms, who the hell is to tell me to be unarmed and a victim to their assaults or attacks? Just a fundemental question of human rights. I have a right to life that no scumbag on the street is going to take carte blanche because my dumbass didn't have a gun. How much "danger" one might encounter depends on where you live and the unknown factor. I don't think many people PLAN on being mugged, raped, or murdered - but it happens every day. Life is tough, its tougher when you're stupid. Responsible gun ownership will prevent most crimes from ever occuring. Preventative medicine if you will.

Not sure if anyone mentioned it but go to http://www.packing.org for local Concealed Carry laws and ordnances or contact the NRA.

well said Paul, and Smith too!

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed;..." Thomas Jefferson letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824.

50Surfer; criminals will be criminals will be criminals... no one said this job was "safe", the onous is on the officer and his teamates/partners to come home in one piece at the end of the day. the law that we enforce formost is the Constitution, which has a Second Amendment that I'm sure we are all familiar with.

just something to think about...

funny how that second amendment has been trampled on by many states, namely Mass and Commiefornia. And precedence set forth by those less than educated CCW holders has given the police reason to assume guilt while you must prove innocence to their satisfaction. This law, coupled with what little a Coastie would have to prove his LEO status, makes that a very tricky and likely sticky situation.

In Michigan the CCW law is very relaxed. No felony convictions or mental disorders, the State shall issue a CCW. There was alot of yelling about the streets being a Wild West with everyone carrying. The bottom line is, law abiding citizens are the ones applying and getting the proper training required to carry. The criminals aren't.

Michigan has not turned into the Wild West and there are many armed citizens. The requirement is when stopped by a Police Officer, you must inform them that you are carrying and present your CCW permit. No drinking while carrying and you cannot carry in schools, etc., etc.

If you really want to have a CCW regardless of LE affiliation, check the State you're currently in and apply. It might not be that difficult to achieve depending on where you live. Just remember, when you pull the trigger you WILL BE sued by the person you're aiming at or hit. Don't worry if you kill them, their family will sue you also. So have money set aside for an attorney.

My home state, Maine, has virtually no crime - but an overabundance of armed citizens - especially in the more rural areas. No one questions open carry of firearms and concealed carry is easy enough to do if you have a clean record. Try open carry of firearms in Massachusetts and a liberal would piss themselves. Did I mention I hate this state (Mass.) and its sissyfied "I am a victim" mentality? Massachusetts is NOT part of New England in case anyone asks.........its the bastard child of the Northeast.