This should stir up a good discussion -
Do CG members fall under this new law as well?

By members of course I mean those that hold current BO(HL) qual codes with current weapon quals on record. BPC/PPC/JPC/UOF training etc...

It does state below "qaulified LEO's is construed to be employees of any governmental agency. Federal/State and local.

Law Enforcement Concealed Carry

PRESIDENT BUSH TO SIGN H.R. 218 ON THURSDAY, JULY 22

NATIONAL CONCEALED CARRY FOR Law Enforcement Officers WILL BECOME LAW!



SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004'.

SEC. 2. EXEMPTION OF QUALIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS FROM STATE LAWS PROHIBITING THE CARRYING OF CONCEALED FIREARMS.

(a) In General- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after section 926A the following:

Sec. 926B. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers

(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--

(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or

(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

(c) As used in this section, the term `qualified law enforcement officer' means an employee of a governmental agency who--

(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;

(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;

(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;

(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;

(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

(d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer.

(e) As used in this section, the term `firearm' does not include--

(1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);

(2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and

(3) any destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).

(b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for such chapter is amended by inserting after the item relating to section 926A the following:

926B. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers.

SEC. 3. EXEMPTION OF QUALIFIED RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS FROM STATE LAWS PROHIBITING THE CARRYING OF CONCEALED FIREARMS.

(a) In General- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is further amended by inserting after section 926B the following:

Sec. 926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers

(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified retired law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--

(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or

(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

(c) As used in this section, the term `qualified retired law enforcement officer' means an individual who--

(1) retired in good standing from service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer, other than for reasons of mental instability;

(2) before such retirement, was authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and had statutory powers of arrest;

(3)(A) before such retirement, was regularly employed as a law enforcement officer for an aggregate of 15 years or more; or

(B) retired from service with such agency, after completing any applicable probationary period of such service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by such agency;

(4) has a nonforfeitable right to benefits under the retirement plan of the agency;

(5) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the State's standards for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms;

(6) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

(7) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

(d) The identification required by this subsection is--

(1) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the standards established by the agency for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or

(2)(A) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer; and

(B) a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State to meet the standards established by the State for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.

(e) As used in this section, the term `firearm' does not include--

(1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);

(2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and

(3) a destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).

(b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for such chapter is further amended by inserting after the item relating to section 926B the following:

926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers.

Section 5845 of the National Firearms Act .
Definitions:

(b) Machinegun - The term "machinegun" means any weapon which shoots, is designedpar to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the controlpar of a person.

U.S. Code : Title 18 : Section 921

(a) As used in this chapter -

(3) The term ''firearm'' means

(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;

(B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;

(C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or

(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

(4) The term ''destructive device'' means -

(A) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas -

(i) bomb,

(ii) grenade,

(iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces,

(iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce,

(v) mine, or

(vi) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses;

(C) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into any destructive device described in subparagraph (A) or (B) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled.

The term ''destructive device'' shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10; or any other device which the Secretary of the Treasury finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, is an antique, or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting, recreational or cultural purposes.

(24) The terms ''firearm silencer'' and ''firearm muffler'' mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

I don't see the Guard allowing it's off duty Officers the carring of a concealed weapon.
First off, we don't have photo credentials or badges, which are required by this law.
Second, you have to sign your life away just to put a gun in your gun-belt for boardings. I can't imagine what you'd have to sign to take the weapon off base on your time off. It's not like you can just strap on a Desert Eagle and say "It's OK. I'm an off duty cop."
Third, where do you conceal your weapon while wearing surfer shorts and flip-flops? A 9mm ain't that small. Anyone who thinks that they would just wear the hip sack or one of those undercover vests might as well wear a ball cap that says "Look at me. I'm a cop!!" And if you do carry a concealed weapon, you better have cuffs, also.

All in all, way to much liability.

Just my opinion, of course.

...has a similar bill that would allow retired Police Officers or former Military Police Officers with at least TEN years experience (with no NJP/Courts-Martial, etc.) to carry concealed in Illinois.

Governor Blagovich is AGAINST this bill, in that he feels it will lead to civilian concealed carry (Illinois is currently only one of FOUR states without a concealed carry law for civilians)

H.R. 218 was designed for active LEO's or retired LEO's "in good standing" with their departments.

We'll see how it applies to "military police officers"

im fearful with some just as btm's, now there gonna let'em loose in the civilian sector.................. stand by

just my thought..........

quote:

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Originally posted by erieMK:
im fearful with some just as btm's, now there gonna let'em loose in the civilian sector.................. stand by

just my thought..........

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Amen. And you know that 18 year old SA would take his/her nice Glock out clubbin'.

I agree, I am at the bar all the time so I would never be able to carry one anyways. . Way to much liability for a Law Enforcement program that is half a#% anyways. All you need is a little break dance in a can to get you by if needed.

All I know is that someone might want let everyone know the CG position on this soon. In reading the law you almost technically can carry starting today, as a BO only, and get away with it. (Unless I am reading it wrong)

web page

It is now in effect - the wording on that subparagraph reads:

(d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer.

The verbage in the law does not say a badge - it states picture ID - required - Our CG Military ID is a picture ID - members E4 and above are considered FLE Officers as well as per the following:

Pursuant to 14 USC 143 and 19 USC 1401, Coast Guard petty officers, warrant officers, and commissioned officers are also customs officers. In 19 USC 1589a, Congress granted customs officers general law enforcement authority, including authority to:

Carry a firearm.

Execute and serve any order, warrant, subpoena, summons, or other process issued under the authority of the United States

Make an arrest without a warrant for any offense against the United States committed in the officer’s presence or for a felony, cognizable under the laws of the United States committed outside the officer’s presence if the officer has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing a felony.

Perform any other law enforcement duty that the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security may designate.

Conduct border searches.

I stating this just for arguments sake - I would believe that the CG is govt. agency in the business of amongst many things Law Enforcement - all Petty Officers, Warrant and Commissioned Officers have enforcement capabilities.(with the proper training etc..) This law also does not state you will carry your duty weapon as your concealed carry weapon -

It states - `(e) As used in this section, the term `firearm' does not include--

`(1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);

`(2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and

`(3) a destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).'.

Nothing noting you shall only carry the weapon with which you carry on duty - then the retired portion of this law would not be in effect... ENJOY!!

Our military ID is not concidered "Credentials". That is why we are given, or supposed to be given, the little card signed by the OinC or other Certifying Official that states in part "..is a Petty Officer in the U.S. Coast Guard and Officer of the Customs... to make arrests... carry a firearm...". This certification card does not include a photo.

The Federal agency that I work for requires you to carry your primary or back-up firearm that you've qualified on, if your going to act, and be covered, under thier authority. If you choose to strap on the 50 cal. Desert Eagle that you got on sale from Cabela's, your doing it under the guides of a private citizen and are not covered by the agency employed with. (Not sure how that works with retirees, I'm too far away from that to think about it.) But as a full-time, gainfully employed federal officer, your on-duty 24/7, therefor required to act under that agencies authority.

That's how I understand it anyway.

I've been in for quite some time now (16 years) BTM qaul'd since 88 or 89 and BO qauld since 96. Never once have I seen or been issued such card - speaking on condition of secrecy - shhhhh - A D?? Legal spokesman has stated the ID would suffice - bearing in mind - member was E-4 or above - and if situation truly warranted and said officials were diligently looking to dig deep enough mbr or mbr's command would have to provide proof of all necessary current weapons quals. As for the law itself was not meant in the end to put LE officers out "there" saving the world - it was more an attempt to protect themselves from reprisals and personal attack - Not do their departments business in an off-duty status. Hence the nationwide bill - so that while you are traveling you (LEO) can transit thru states without hassel or worry about the multitude and legal patchwork of different laws as you cross local/county/state bounderies. ....

The CG is actually signing off on this? If so I am suprised. If they deside to allow this, they need to make some guide lines soon. I can already see someone srapping it on. I am not saying I am against the idea, I just think the individual BO's really need to understand the severity of carrying off duty and weigh the pros and cons.

I've been in for 17 yrs. and only just got the little card about 2 yrs ago. I think a 2nd grader could probably make a copy in computer class in about an hour.
I agree with the personal protection aspect. And in theory it sounds good. But unfortunately and in my experiences, I don't feel a lot of the BO's and BTM's have the maturity and understanding of the responsibility of carrying a concealed weapon as mentioned here. I guess I don't see a great danger to coasties being targeted where they would need immediate personal protection. If it was a problem, I think there would have been something in place long ago.
I've worked details plain-clothes before wearing a shoulder holster. If your not used to it, it's uncomfortable as hell. I couldn't wait to get out of it. It ain't all that glamorous, believe me. And the big kicker, "YES GUN = NO DRINK!!"

[This message was edited by a47mlb on Thu, 22 July 2004 at 17:17.]

We have a few reservists who are local PD & Sheriff's and I asked them about concealed carry. They said it was one of the most pain in the a$$ things they had to do. If you want to go to the beach or pool, you can't go swimming, it probably wouldn't be a great idea to take it on school grounds, etc....

Plus the club and bar thing I said earlier.

I agree with most comments on this - that the maturity and responsibility levels are probably what we should have out there carrying concealed. But there is a vast majority of our members from NON-RATE up to possibly Admiral out there that are already legally carrying concealed within the states that they are stationed/reside. This would only facilitate those that are E4 and above to carry across those boundries that were once blocked off. There shouldnt be any E2/E3's stationed in VA. and having a CCW permit for that State, roadtripping it thru say to Mass. carrying concealed and trying to quote - this specific law. It won't work.

Sorry to keep on with this - but one more - 25066, I don't believe this is anything the CG will have to "sign off" on persay - I think that it is a done deal. (could be wrong) I think the CG would have to come out and specifically address the issue and forbid the MBR's to carry concealed in the name of the CG. The CG cannot do anything about the MBR on his owntime legally licensed to carry in a state he resides carrying concealed.

Thanks for the comments, I plan on checking into it more on the "legal" side of things and maybe get a verdict from those further up the chain.

If I get anything factual I will put it out here. If anybody else has ideas/comments or facts on this feel free to enlighten us.

I agree TC, by reading the bill, it doesn't seem like the CG will have much to say about it. Do you think Commands will have the power to supersede a federal law which give LEO's authorization to carry off duty, and off of a CG base? I can understand them not allowing a mbr to carry on CG property, but outside the gate I don't see how they can say much about it.
It's a matter of Federal Law, not CG policy, doesn't seem like there is anything to "sign-off on".
I also wouldn't expect the CG to back any members that get in trouble with this issue, just like they wouldn't if you break any other civilian laws.
It'll be interesting to see how this shakes out!

Looks to me like this will apply to us. I am going to send a copy to the dist. legal office and see what they tell me. Many of us coasties already have concealed carry permits in states. It will be nice to be allowed to carry across state borders however. Many people have negative posts on here about this issue. I encourage you to research the concealed carry laws in your own states.... You would be suprised who can carry a gun! A law was recently passed here in Alaska which doesnt even require a permit to carry concealed. In this state if you are "legally allowed to purchase and posess a firearm... you may cary that firearm concealed in the state. Of course it has exemptions having to do with alcohol and govt buildings etc.... So here any 21 year old with out a criminal record can carry a handgun just about any where in the state.... When I was stationed in VA as a 21 year old non rate I got a concealed carry permit by just submitting my paperwork, and a copy of my BTM qual and PQS, and range scores which kept me from even having to take the class..... The maturity issue is something that even the previous laws in effect cant really control, this law basically just gets rid of us having to deal with the paperwork and paying for a permit in every state we live in if it turns out it does apply to us......

If anyone hears anything back from legal, or has any other info please let me know

After reading this section, I don't see how CG E-4 and up could be left out.


(c) As used in this section, the term `qualified law enforcement officer' means an employee of a governmental agency who--

`(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;

`(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;

`(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;

`(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;

`(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

`(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm

We should read this new law in the context that it was written.

Section 926B (c)(2) provides that the officer must be authorized by their agency to carry a firearm.

The CG provides its members with the authority to carry firearms, but it limits that authority only to the performance of CG duties. Except with some narrow exceptions for CGI, it also prohibits the carrying of personally owned weapons.

Since the authority to carry weapons is conditionally given by the CG, those same conditions would likely apply under this law.

The best read on this new law is that it gives CG personnel, E-4 and above (due to the "power of arrest" requirement), the right to carry CG issued weapons in the performance of CG duties.

But then, we've had that "right" all along.

I don't see it that way at all. To me when it says:

Section 926B (c)(2) provides that the officer must be authorized by their agency to carry a firearm.

That just means that you have to be authorized by the CG to carry a weapon (current weapons quals, JPC, etc. )

So the fact that the CG authorizes qualified members to carry a firearm, this law allows those qualified individuals to carry their own personal weapons consealed with out a state issued permit (which almost any coastie regardless of rank or LE authority could get anyway).

For the CG's purposes, you're only authorized to carry one in the performance of official duties. Since we take our hats off after work, and do not continue to operate once off duty, you're no longer authorized to carry a firearm by the CG's regulations. The law does not apply to us whatsoever (CGIS exception). The nature and design of the law is to allow peace officers, who are always on duty whether on the clock or not, to carry a firearm without administrative action necessary in each state they travel to. More or less to circumvent states like the People's Republik of Kommiefornia, where you must have a CCW from this state, as they do not honor others. So, putting it into perspective: A cop goes on a trip outside his state of residence/work, comes into the PRK, witnesses a felony in progress. He can now use that concealed firearm to discharge the duties he is rightfully capable of doing. It doesn't apply to Joe Coastie who just got off duty and is out and about in town, witnesses a felony at MacDonalds and is not authorized to conduct LE. There are specific pre-requisites to extending CG authority in an off-duty status, and one of them is the possession of organic authority in the place you are in. We do not have that when we're not on duty, so the law does not apply. Put it this way, if you were out on the water in your personal boat, you still couldn't enforce RBS, much like Aux crews. You can educate and assist, but you are not able to enforce any laws whatsoever, therefore your firearm is not authorized based on this law alone.

I see your point, and I somewhat agree, but this law doesn't say anything about where a LEO's jurisdiction begins or ends, or mention if they are on or off duty. It says an officer authorized by law to engage in LE(in our case E4 and up), can carry if they are authorized by their agency to carry a firearm (in our case you're weapons quals are current, etc.)it doesn't say anything about carrying the firearm only to carry out official duties, or if the firearm is gov. issue or personally owned.

Our Military ID clearly meets the description of the identification requirements.

It's written pretty vague, but to me it looks like any coastie E4 and up that is authorized by the CG to carry a weapon is covered by this law, unless the gun is an Uzi, they are drunk, or they have been recently booked.

Hopefully the higher-ups, who should have seen this one coming a very long time ago (it's been 12 years in the making) will have some guidance and clarity out soon on this issue. I'm just hoping it won't be the typical knee-jerk reaction