quote:

Originally posted by jgcoastie:

Would it not be possible for all BO's be of the LE rate type??? I mean, wouldn't it make sense to make BO a LE-only position??? Have other rates fill in the BTM positions as well as LE3's who could use the experience before being put in charge of a BT... Have an LE Officer or LEC/CS/CM (depending on size of unit/cutter) in charge of LE Dept... Possibly under OPS Dept... Have however many LE's as you have duty sections for stations and have the LE Dept head in a daywork status just as you have the 1LT... I mean, does it not make sense to have the personnel in charge of boardings dedicated to law enforcement as their sole job??? I'm an ET... My job is PMS and corrective maintenance on radars, radios, etc... Just with the limited knowledge I have of the ET rating thus far, I think it'll be very difficult to assume the duties of a BO on the boat while maintaining sufficient knowledge of both my rating and collateral duties as a BO... I'm not saying I can't do it, I will as soon as possible... But I can see the need for PO's who have only law enforcement rules/regs to keep up with... I also think we'd see a very high increase in law enforcement activity as a whole so as to 'justify' the additional billets service-wide... And since 9/11, isn't LE becoming a mission that is becoming more and more in demand???

Just my $.02... I'm sure I made some type of error in my assessment, but I'm open to more information regarding the subject...

ET3 Sends...

I think some of the growing pains with this whole decision is that for the history of the Coast Guard, L/E has been a collateral duty for the most part.

In every other L/E agency I know of, you are L/E first and have collateral duties to go along with that.

It's difficult for the USCG to wear so many different hats so to speak.

Don

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 21yrsUSCGUSCS,

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were at TACLET. It also doesn't look as if the ALEC program is achieving its intended results. There are a lot of us with the ALEC designator anxiously awaiting the next step

Personnel will continue training in intuitive/cognitive algorhythms desiged to I.D. bad guys by eyeball twitch. This program will be known as "SMART ALECS".

quote:

Originally posted by jgcoastie:
Would it not be possible for all BO's be of the LE rate type??? I mean, wouldn't it make sense to make BO a LE-only position???

According to the last Bureau of Justice Statistics report on the number of Fed LEOs by agency, the USCG claims approx. 5,000 BOs. Subtract out the 0s and the LE rating could easily be one of the largest ratings behind BM and MK. Keep in mind that the number of enlisted boarding officers also reflects people that do much more than LE alone, i.e. all of the coxswains, boat engineers, QMOWs, OOWs, CIC/radio watchstanders, OODs, etc.

LE (and its derivative missions) is important and requires specialization to improve effectiveness. I don't think you will see a sudden increase in LE activity because of the creation of a rating. I've done station small boats, WMEC patrols, and LEDET deployments; there are only so many boats to board at any given time. Essentially, there is not enough day to day "busy" work to justify a 4k+ person rating. What you may see with increased specialization, training, and experience is an increase in the quality of cases made, be it drugs/migrants, fisheries, or BWI.

I think the LE rating should be created, but should serve as LE specialists assigned to DOG and as LEPOs/Trainers onboard cutters and at stations. The LE rating would also serve as a feeder rating to CGIS. The other thing I would suggest is leave people in the same duty station or geographic area. It takes a solid year or more to get up to speed doing LE in an area and to develop those working relationships with other local/state/Fed LEOs that makes everyone more effective. By the time the person is comfortable, transfer season comes along and the process starts all over again for everyone. We (local/state/Feds) don't transfer that often and have to constantly re-educate the new personnel and/or re-develop those effective working relationships.

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Originally posted by FedRich:
The other thing I would suggest is leave people in the same duty station or geographic area. It takes a solid year or more to get up to speed doing LE in an area and to develop those working relationships with other local/state/Fed LEOs that makes everyone more effective. By the time the person is comfortable, transfer season comes along and the process starts all over again for everyone. We (local/state/Feds) don't transfer that often and have to constantly re-educate the new personnel and/or re-develop those effective working relationships.

Man, is that ever an important issue rarely discussed on here or wherever.

I agree 100%.

Don

Looks like there is move afoot to stand up an actual LE rating.

There is ALCOAST 023/08 out last month posted on the OS board (look under, LE Rate??) pertaining to a survey request for folks who actually strap on a piece in order to do their job. A lot of people in the OS rating are apparently interested and believe that they are already 'doing LE work' as a flurry of comments between them and a gold shield (OS Rating Force MCPO) are ongoing.

Many on this board and maybe directly involved have probably already answered the survey. Strange on one is talking about it here..?

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quote:
Originally posted by FedRich:
The other thing I would suggest is leave people in the same duty station or geographic area. It takes a solid year or more to get up to speed doing LE in an area and to develop those working relationships with other local/state/Fed LEOs that makes everyone more effective. By the time the person is comfortable, transfer season comes along and the process starts all over again for everyone. We (local/state/Feds) don't transfer that often and have to constantly re-educate the new personnel and/or re-develop those effective working relationships.

But you also don't get promotions based upon a job opening 3000 miles away. Right now, the 'normal' tour length coincides very nicely with the 'average' time in grade for advancement, regardless of grade.

quote:

Originally posted by Mightyz90_93:


But you also don't get promotions based upon a job opening 3000 miles away. Right now, the 'normal' tour length coincides very nicely with the 'average' time in grade for advancement, regardless of grade.

One of the major problems with this length of tour is with the coxswains. It took me 5 or 6 years to get really comfortable running at night in the FL Keys with all the reefs, sandbars, derelict boats, etc.

Put a coxswain in a nighttime pursuit with two years at a station against a smuggler who's been running that area for decades and sooner or later there's going to be an accident.

The same with Biscayne Bay, Miami's Southern AOR. A coxswain can certainly run the ICW, marked inlets and Hawk's Channel but the problem is that the smugglers tend to do their offloads in little unmarked canals not even on the nav charts, for example, in the vicinity of Turkey Point, etc.

Don

Actually Master Chief, if I wanted to promote I would have to move maybe as far as AK or HI, which is similar to many other Fed agencies.

I understand that the current rate/billet structure would interfere with this, but I don't see why someone couldn't advance in place up to a certain rate, say E-6, without having to transfer. You could easily make a billet E-4 to E-6 unless a certain level of expertise was required in that area.

Works well to a point for unit X, who now has 5 E-6s, but that means Unit Y would have to have all E-4s. A lot of solutions look great when viewed through narrow visions, but when you step back and look at it globaly, many faults show up.

Now - you hit on one solution yourself that some Coasties take advantage of. If you want to stay in an area longer - then don't try to advance out of your billet.

We are doing a fairly good job right now in regards to geo-stability. As good as we probably can anyways as it is a very difficult subject. For everyone that wants to stay in one area for mukltiple tours, there is someone who wants to move there or someone who wants the hell out of there.

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If you want to stay in an area longer - then don't try to advance out of your billet.

Another way to stay in one geographical area as long as you want is to.............not join a military service.

We tell people the same thing about Fed LE since most of us have to sign a mobility agreement. While highly unlikely, I could be transferred to American Samoa or Ketchikan tomorrow.

My point is that the current transfer rationale really only gives the member (and the CG and everyone else) one maybe two "good" years of being fully qualified, having local knowledge, and a strong working relationship with the aforementioned local, state, fed agencies.

I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet, so if it has belay my last.

Is there anyone who has read the LETSGO study for phase 1? I would recommend everyone who is interested in the LE rate to take a look at the report that is published. Lots of good info about where we might be headed. For all those on AD, you can find the link on the MLEA website.

Now with the Phase I data being interpreted they are in engaged in Phase II. This is geared for CO's, OINC's, Officers and E-7 and above in the LE community. I hope that both efforts get the results they are looking for to finally justify making the LE rate. I look forward to it, if it happens during my time, I would make the lateral in a heart bet.

For this next survey you have to include your EMPLID # so anyone who meets the criteria, do the survey. I did, it does not take long. The thing was good, well put together. It allows you to give really good input.

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I hope that both efforts get the results they are looking for to finally justify making the LE rate.

I hope this effort finally puts the question to bed, whether or not it justifies creating a rating.

FedRich,

You didn't get the memo?

See you in Samoa.

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Originally posted by BTDT:
FedRich,

You didn't get the memo?

See you in Samoa.

Ha Ha, but I don't think the agency wants to pay the PCS costs, not in our current budget climate. I'll gladly do a TDY out there though!

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Samoa

LOL, come on down to Samoa! There's only three of us here and we would gladly use the extra help!

According to my Master Chief, the LE rate is official. It was approved and signed earlier this week. A message regarding requirements and stuff will come out on 06June. I sure hope he is right.

Originally posted by CGBM2:
According to my Master Chief, the LE rate is official. It was approved and signed earlier this week. A message regarding requirements and stuff will come out on 06June. I sure hope he is right.

Thought it was to take at least another year. Still, I will believe it when I see it.