quote:

Originally posted by trinity000:
I have been unable to find anywhere in any manual that states it is optional. But i have also not found anywhere that states they can force you to recieve it.

So what is the real answer and where is it located?

This is assuming you DO NOT wish to recieve security or LE training.

Oh, my cryin asterisk! For the sake of us all, suck it up, take a whiff, vomit, and get the he** outta the way! There's others that are coming thru..Make a hole!
...Wait, that's OC, not CS...my bad...

This will not answer the question(s).

When I was a boot GM3 at WAT Portsmouth in VA, a fellow GM3 and I were always listening to how the 2cd's and the 1st's told stories about getting there OC exposures. Eventually we asked our GM1 if he could get us sprayed and letters. The next day the GM's and there WEPO from the Tampa came over and had us sprayed.
We voluntarily asked to get it done while at a land unit that does not conduct LE or security ops. Yeah we did it for the training, but more for the right of passage and the right to bulls%#@ about it.
Anyone who has not been sprayed, come forward and get it over with.

I believe a big part of being sprayed is the confidence factor. If you've never experienced it, you may doubt its effectiveness as a viable non-lethal "weapon". I'm glad to carry it on boardings. As far as getting ordered to receive a dose, I could understand it from an underway unit, not sure if anyone on land is having the same problem. I wouldn't think so.

quote:

Originally posted by Shaveanape2002:
Oh, my cryin asterisk! For the sake of us all, suck it up, take a whiff, vomit, and get the he** outta the way! There's others that are coming thru..Make a hole!
...Wait, that's OC, not CS...my bad...

That's the funniest thing I have read today. But wasn't cs so much fun?

Being sprayed with OC is a right of passage....no really, The last few commands that I have been, all operational made it clear that LE was a voluntary collateral. There is a great reason for this. Why would you want someone doing LE who's heart and mind wasn't into it. Noone was ever "ordered" to do LE. Now if your at a TACLET, small boat station or WPB different story due to smaller crews.

But here's a tip. We had a lad who did nothing but whine about having to get exposed when the PAC training team visited us. When he got sprayed, and had to defend himself he had a harder time because he pissed and moaned about having to do it.

Moral of the story, if you have to do anything in the CG or life, the best thing to do is suck it up and get it over with and play the part.
Besides OC isn't all that bad. I spray myself from time to time for enjoyment.

i had a old salty QMC now BMCS that hated oc AND NEVER HAS BEEN SPRAYED. WHATS THE REASON THEY HAVE TO SPRAY US ANYWAY "SO YOU WILL KNOW HOW IT FEELS WHEN YOU SPRAY ANOTHER OR IF THE WIND CARRYS SOME INTO YOUR FACE YOU KNOW HOW TO REACT" I SAID TO HIM JUST WHAT I WROTE AND HE TOLD ME WELL HOW ABOUT I SHOOT YOU WITH THE BERRETTA SO YOU KNOW HOW IT FEELS TO BE SHOT AND KNOW HOW TO REACT AND I JUST SHUT MY MOUTH AND CARRIED ON

Go YN!

If they are making you get sprayed and you don't even want to do LE then you must have pissed someone off or there looking for a good laugh, good luck breaking in.

I can't believe what I have been reading. Trinity needs to get out and get a job at Micky D's. When will the madness end. "I'm sorry Master Chief, I can't make this patrol since I have to make arrangements for my goldfish' funeral." Trinity read the "Creed of the Coast Guardman" by Vadm Harry G. Hamlet. Then you'll know what to do if you are a true Coast Guardsman.

I can't believe people are arguing that it's pointless to get OC sprayed. It's supposed to keep you from spraying every single person that gives you an attitude as a "warning" by making you feel how much it burns.

It's all about training. They wouldn't send a police officer in to a riot without at least teaching him how to use a baton. You don't really want to react to something like that while in the field, that's what the classroom is for.

quote:

So does the same thing hold true for the weapon we carry or the asp that we also carry. Lets all get shot to see how it feels or maybe we can get wacked in the leg to see how the asp feels. Getting OC is just dumb. The kid has a legit question

Yes it does. In BTM school we used batons on each other, and there was the shoot house. We used Training batons, but that still hurt like hell, you do all the joint manipulation at 100%, training batons at 100%, wax bullets were used which hurt about 50x more than a paint ball, and if you and your boarding team are good at what you do, you shouldnt get shot. So yes getting O.C is critical to what i think. Just do it, and then when you go home you can go brag to your friends how you did it, and you wont regret it. Pain goes away, and plus you might havea tolerance to it. either way good luck, and be a coastie!

First time poster here, I'm an OS3 on the Tahoma. All newly reported persons get sprayed at my unit. We had a guy that refused to get sprayed. He went through his chain of command to get out of it. So it's possible to get out of it. While it sucks really bad and I will never get any use out of it unless I decide to become a BTM, a year later its just another sea story. Suck it up and throw all your weight at that little blue mat. Just my $.02.

Does, getting sprayed in the face with OC and then slopply kicking and pushing a guy with a giant kick shield ( who is fighting you with about a tenth of the motivation of a real criminal) realistcly prove that you can defend yourself even with OC in the eyes? Does it prove you can fight through it effectively? That was my take on the training. That you have to protect your weapon and yourself. not to make you more judicial with the spray. If that's what it takes, which I am sure it does not. then what do we do to make people more judicial with a firearm.

I think in a real life situation, If you get OC in your eyes, and your not one of those people that has a tolerance. Your done. Thanks for shopping.

wow ... just.....wow.......

I'm a freakin Storekeeper and I got sprayed not to mention the gas from the ARMY. We are in the military, not some civilian job. If you can;t handle the duties then cray and get out. If not be a man and step up.

Tell ya what, go to your command and tell them that you can;d find in any manual that you have to do it and be sure to mention that on Fred's place other whimps said that you shouldn;t have to either, that will teach your command.

Be a man good Lord. Who joins the military to avoid hard work and bein told what to do?

And FYI, for those saying that it's stupid to get sprayed since we don;t get hit with the asp, or maybe we should shoot ourselves int he foot since we carry guns..... grow up. We get sprayed because due to the nature of it we have to know how to react to it if we use it and it blows back in our face or a shipmate uses it and somehow gets us too. Pepperspray is a whole new pain in itself. We can all imagine what it would feel like to take a asp to the leg or even a bullet to a point but the spray is again, a whole new pain that you havet o know how to deal with.

quote:

We get sprayed because due to the nature of it we have to know how to react to it if we use it and it blows back in our face or a shipmate uses it and somehow gets us too.

I have been OC'd. I did not recieve any training on how to react. All they wanted to see is if I did. There was not instruction, no guidance. Just spray and go get em'.

Here is my other experience. Before I got in the CG I was a professional Kickeboxer (muay thai). I was ranked #1 in the world, I was the american champ, north american champ, and amatuer world champ in 1999. Let's say I know how to fight....just a little bit.

I do not believe even with my training and experinece fighting would I be able to effectivly defend my self against an attack who was at full strength. At all. The training is unrealistic and by no means tests your ability to handle the stress. The attacker is moving at half speed, he is not really trying to hurt you. It's all pretty fake.

I think the money spent on the training would be better spent on PPE or training teaching people not to get it in there eyes.

When I was fighting, there were a lot of tarzans in the gym, but most were Jane in the game.

I also think that trinty's manhood or his gusto is pretty strong. Seeing he is questioning his command. Though I do believe in good order and discpline. And if those are the rules, those are the rules! because yes this is the military. But it does take some balls to go ahead and question the man.

First of all, WOW. Though you should be proud of what you have accomplished and all you can do . I couldn't compete in those kinds of fights but, let me just say that some of the best fighters, shooters, coxswains...etc I've met didn't have to broadcast that they were so great. An excercise in humility perhaps. Also we don't train to fight so much as to gain distance because if I punch someone or kick someone and break a bone then I am useless. Especially if I break the hand I am punching with, which as for most people is their weapons hand, and a deadly force situation presents itself. Now I have to try and unholster and shoot with my other hand.

Those of you who ask the inevitable "why don't we get shot with the handgun to see what that feels like?" We don't do that because we can't very well feel what death is like can we? When we pull the trigger the potential of death exists not just some burning sensation. That is why it is a last resort even though we don't shoot to kill we shoot to stop. As LEO's we need the most realistic training possible but we also need to be safe so we don't take ourselves out of the field (i.e. shooting ourselves and cracking each other with steel batons on unpadded legs.)

I was an instructor and have sprayed countless numbers of people. On most occasions I got some of the "backspray" on me and had to deal with the effects of the spray. I even had sunglasses on. That was as an instructor I got sprayed unintentionaly and I didn't have to deal with the guy/girl I just sprayed. In the field if you spray someone you are gonna have to cuff them or wrestle them to the ground so the potential to get some on you is greater. I personaly think we should have to cuff someone after getting sprayed. On that notion, the training that occurs at some units is substandard and we need to remedy that. It should be professional in the classroom and practical portions. Yes there should be a classroom portion. Also, getting sprayed should not be a hazing event and is not a "right of passage". When I was teaching I have had people opt out of being sprayed and some of which were officers. I don't think less of them and nobody should as it is their decision and nobody elses. LE is not for everyone. This is where "choose your rate choose your fate" comes in. If you wish to avoid being sprayed or carrying a weapon then choose a rate that will better suit your intentions. Or, just a thought, you shouldn't join the ARMED forces. Either way if you are not going to be actively engaging in LE or pursuing a BTM qual then you need not get sprayed.

A command can "make" you do pretty much anything within reason but most won't because they know that they shouldn't send someone who couldn't care less about LE on a boarding and to be someone's partner. Remember though, that if another major attack occurs you probably will be asked to stand guard or wear the weapons belt no matter what your rate is. Ask the HS's, YN's, SK's etc.... that were thrust into standing gate guard after 9/11 against some's wishes. Everyone take care of yourselves and be safe no matter your job or rate or if you have been sprayed or not.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jvm1104,

Sorry to break your balls, but about 90% of the techniques done in kickboxing won't work in a real fight. There are rules to SPORTS like kickboxing and the UFC, whereas a real fight there is no tapping out.

And part of the reason you get sprayed is so you know how it feels like, just like practicing shooting a gun at a shooting range.

Thanks for the moral lesson JVM. I am quite humble. I was just making the statement to give my post some clout. Someone would have called me on it sooner or later.


And as for it being a sport. I hear a lot of people say that crap. But none have been willing to put there theory to the test.

I be to differ. A man skilled in hand to hand combat has quite an advantage over a man who does not.

So hows about attacking my arguments and not me.

So knowing what feels like makes you a better law enforcement how? enlighten me.

quote:

So knowing what feels like makes you a better law enforcement how? enlighten me.

That part doesn't make any sense to me... typo?

And of course knowing hand to hand combat makes you a better fighter. Duh. I take Isshinryu, CDT, and some aikido. But we don't go to tournaments, do shows, etc. We only do techniques if they work, not if they look pretty.

I'm 6'3". Try kicking me in the head in a street fight. Good luck with that.

Now, kicking out my knee, or a well place rib kick, and we're talking. But a knee kick doesn't look as "cool" as kicking someones face, but it's a hell of a lot safer for me.

And joining the military and telling them "well I don't do law enforcement means I shouldn't have to get OC sprayed."

Does that also mean you don't need to know how to fire and clean a weapon? I mean, after all, you aren't in law enforcement, why bother, right?