i recently found out i made list for e-5 but i havent been to board so it would have to be as automatic promotion. I checked with brigade s-1 and they said it was legit. dont know how happened but it is what it is...
a fellow e-4 told me they had same situation and batallion wouldnt do it because of out of tolerance on pt test and weapons..im in same situation as I have been on temp profile for about 9 months after hurting my back. i have tried asking to get off of it but doctor says wants to make sure not going to come back.
I have been studying reg on promotions and i cant find anything saying you can deny an automatic promotion due to pt test and weapons being expired. s-1 told me i should have been made ineligible because of it but that it was too late to stop it since i was already on list. I dont know whats going on..brigade s-1 told me basically congrats that it was a done deal...other people have told me battallion may block it. but sounds like if they dont i will be promoted.
I realize there arent many fans of this automatic promotion stuff. its basically a slap in the face to those who put in the hard work of studying for board, many cases appearing more than once. But Im not the only one. there were 2 others just in my MOS that were selected. I read something saying that a commander can stop it but they had 15 days...that time has already passed. i dont know if they can do a 4187 at anytime and stop promotion or not.
so mostly my question is if orders are cut from brigade can battallion not process it because of pt test expired? i cant find anything to support this...I know you cant go to the board if you dont have weapons and pt card valid but this is a different situation. Thanks in advance for your replies
Promotion to E5 isn't "Automatic".
With promotion to E4-E5 you need to have TIG/TIS and points. Beyond that you need to have an E4 evaluation turned in that says "ready to promote" If you have those things, you are golden.
The catch is, and the reason so many guys are getting E5 seemingly "automatically" is that it is up to leadership to produce an E4 eval that says "not ready to promote". In order to do that they have to have substantiating counseling statements indicating why that soldier shouldn't be promoted. Following that, the Commander has to submit a 4187 asking to take said soldier off of the promotion list. When leadership does not complete these things, substandard soldiers get promoted.
Whether or not they can block it after the fact I do not know, but I've seen a lot of really bad soldiers sneak through because their chain of command didn't do their due diligence and they either couldn't do anything about it or it wasn't worth the hassle.
normally it isnt automatic...some special star MOS type thing. my ERB shows me having the points required to be promoted. my points are consistently 39 points every month suggesting theres a shortage of nco's in my MOS
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Promotion to SGT is not automatic. You have to go before the promotion board. Most units have no problem sending people to the board. The amount of points you get there is totally on you. If I were you, I would be bugging the hell out of my Squad Leader/ Platoon SGT to go, ASAP. Units I have been in usually want you to do the soldier of the month firdt. If yours does, go. It is worth it to do a dry run before going to the board that really counts. Start studying now.
|Highly Experienced Member|
Actually no and the OP is correct. I think they changed it for the GWOT, you no longer have to be boarded prior to obtaining SGT (E5). It's up to the CoC now. They did that because with some units and deployments they did not have time to hold a official board for promotion. At least I think it was the board and WLC or maybe it was WLC.
I have no idea what the across the board practice is because I read on this website that some units were doing boards still overseas in Iraq and Afghanistan. I know 1st ID was doing that in 2008 when CMTaMedic went before the board in Afghanistan (not sure if it was for SGT or SSG since he was already a SGT).
Have also read on here that some were promoted to SGT(E5) without ever being boarded and without WLC (PLDC). Not sure how that works but apparently it is doable now.
We were doing boards in theater, I sat on a number of them. While some requirments are relaxed due to the locations you still had to be recommended and the board members had to select you. Out of the 200 plus packets I reviewed in Iraq and A-Stan I recommended non promotion on about 35 for various reasons. Some folks should never be NCO's let alone allowed to stay in. We have to be very carefull not to create monsters that degrade the NCO Corp. everyone knows atleast a dozen NCO's that you scratch your head and ask yourself how the "F" did that idiot get promoted. Me personally I think that the names of those that recommend some of these clowns be included on the promoted NCO's NCOER's so we can all see who made that mistake.
I had two soldiers working for me a while back that had come in the Army around the same time, served at the same units, and were looking to getting out at the end of their tour. When I counseled them about promotion to _SGT_ (not E-5), they told me thanks but no thanks, they'd rather avoid the extra responsibility and get out. I strongly encouraged them to think hard about this, but their mind was made up.
When I reported this up the chain, I was told in no uncertain terms that ALL soldiers who were in the primary zone, had no disciplinary issues and met all other standards, WOULD go before a promotion board.
I told the 2 soldiers this, letting them know that they were in for a butt-chewing if they told the CSM that they didn't want to be promoted, but in the end, if that's what they wanted, I would support them during the board.
Any other time, they would've gotten non-recommended for promotion, but the day of their promotion board was September 11, 2001. We were on the West Coast so as they were prepping to go before the board, we all watched the events unfold. A quick call to BN confirmed that the board was still on, however.
When we arrived (along with several more willing candidates), the CSM was sitting in the conference room, alone. He waved everyone into the room, and said, "I hope you all realize that this Army is going to need real leaders in the coming months. I hope you can rise to that challenge. Now get out."
Everyone (including my 2 unwilling participants) received max scores.
The moral? Sometimes promotion is not just automatic, it's forced. It's what you do afterward that counts.
Thats my source. It says commander has 15 days to remove someone from list once they are added but in my case it's been over 30. I'm on the list and my points are updated so going to the board doesn't do me anything bit get me an approval of a CSM. Truthfully I understand why many current NCO's don't approve of automatic system but with the new changes of how you get nothing but a go or no go ( not commander points and board points) then that changes things.
Incorrect. Google Automatic Promotion List. For shortage MOS' the promotion board is "waived" All soldiers who meet the TIS/TIG requirements are placed on the APL.
|Highly Experienced Member|
Thanks for that.
Here's a quote about automatic promotions.
“Are we taking away a commander’s authority? Absolutely not,” said retired Sgt. Maj. Gerald Purcell, G1 personnel policy integrator for enlisted professional development
Commanders will have the ability to remove a Soldier from the Sergeant Recommended List, Purcell explained, if a Soldier is not trained, or otherwise unqualified. There will be a 15-day window after the automatic promotion list is generated for commanders to remove names.
In other words. If you are a dud, and find your way onto the CO's chit list. The automatic pomotion can be stopped.
All the CORRECT answers to this issue can be found in AR 600-8-19, Enlisted Promotions and Reducations.
In short though, if an MOS is critically undermanned (SGT STAR MOS), a Specialist with four (4) years TIS and at least six (6) months TIG is automatically integrated onto the Promotable list (C-10 Roster). Currently this is called Command List Integration.
The Promotion Cutoff Scores for SGT STAR MOS' are usually bottomed out at 39. That means that any SPC(P)s in that MOS are automatically advanced to SGT. No board appearance required.
Automatic promotions can be blocked by a Company Commander or higher. Removing someone's "P Status" (removal from the C-10 Roster) is possible, but requires an elaborate process (also found in AR 600-8-19) and many Commanders don't want to go through the hassle.
I just wish my unit was as determined to send Specialists to the Promotion Board! My unit plays favorites with who goes to the Board. I don't play that game, so I have not gone to the Board (would have made points THREE TIMES in the past year had I gone) despite winning Soldier of the Month, BN Soldier of the Quarter, and came in 3rd at Brigade SOQ.
One of the key points in the regulation is as follows:
"3–4. Waiver authority
Promotion authority may waive the eligibility requirements of TIS and TIMIG as outlined in table 3–3, below."
By promotion authority, it means the BN CDR or his representative of the board - usually the CSM (if the CDR is smart). In short, they have direct control over who and when promotions occur in their unit. By extension, both the CO and 1SG may weigh in on the matter, but it would be a strange officer indeed who would push the matter all that much if the NCOs disagreed over the worthiness of a given individual.
In short, if your NCO chain doesn't think you're ready, you won't make it, no matter how you do on the board. A bad performance will definitely sink your chances, but even a good performance isn't a straight ticket. They will likely judge you on totality of character.
Can the process be a popularity contest? Certainly, other 1SGs aren't likely to overrule your own if he votes against, but neither is the process completely without merit. Who else but the NCO chain should this process be entrusted to?
@jgage78 how can you say that it is a slap in the face just because others have studied for the board, just because they have studied for the board does not mean that they are ready to become an NCO or deserve to be one. Some ppl just study to get through the board and get promoted but some do not know regulations. Some ppl that have been promoted to be an NCO do not know what it means to be an NCO, some ppl just wear the rank and are just sergeants. Just because someone becomes automatically promotable does not mean they did not work for it or dont deserve it. I am almost at that status come June 2013. PPl that have become automatically promotable, they have too worked for it, some worked for it when they came in. So i disagree with it being a slap in the face, some ppl arent being promoted for a reason.
just for FYI it does become automatic, you just might want to look it up.
mimi you might want to check dates on posts, this thread is over a year old.
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