Can you say FUBAR?

French soldier shoots 17 in hostage-taking exercise
by Franck Madoeuf
1 hour, 35 minutes ago



President Nicolas Sarkozy promised swift and severe punishment Monday after a soldier shot and wounded 17 people, including a three-year-old boy and both his parents, at an open day at an army barracks.

The sergeant opened up with an assault rifle, firing live rounds instead of blanks into a crowd of hundreds of visitors watching a hostage-taking exercise Sunday at the base near the southwestern city of Carcassonne.

A man who witnessed the shooting told AFP that "suddenly, people were falling, we thought it was part of the exercise, and then we saw blood."

Sarkozy said after he visited some of the wounded in a Carcassonne hospital that the shooting did not appear to be criminal but that it was the result of "unacceptable negligence" for which he promised a "rapid and severe reaction."

A senior army officer insisted that the incident was almost certainly the result of an "unintentional" error.

Fifteen civilians were among those injured, including the three-year-old boy and a six-year-old girl who were both operated on overnight and were described Monday as being in a stable condition.

Both the boy's parents were also shot in the incident, officials said. Two soldiers were also injured.

The soldier who fired the shots from his FAMAS assault rifle, a sergeant described as experienced with no history of behavioural or psychological problems, was detained following the incident.

An army source said three other soldiers were also detained.

The eyewitness who spoke to AFP, who asked not to be named, said there were seven or eight soldiers with guns taking part in the exercise, with one of them in the middle of the hundreds of spectators pretending to be a terrorist.

Immediately after the real shots were fired, "an official shouted out over the loudspeakers "Cease fire!", he said.

The use of the live rounds was "99.9 percent" likely to be "an unintentional fault," said Colonel Benoit Royal, the head of the French army's information service.

Military and civilian investigators immediately opened probes into the events at the Third Marine Parachute Regiment barracks.

"I cannot rule out anything because we don't know what might be going on in a man's head," Defence Minister Herve Morin told France Info radio.

He said the shooter had first fired a magazine of blanks and then loaded a fresh magazine but this time with live bullets.

"Why did he have it in his pocket?" asked Morin, who accompanied Sarkozy on his visit to the Carcassonne hospital.

He said an experienced soldier would not confuse blanks and real bullets, noting that the two munitions are packed into different-coloured magazines.

The senior official for the Aude region where Carcassonne is located, Bernard Lemaire, said that investigators believed the deadly ammunition was loaded by mistake.

"The question being asked is 'Did the soldier engage in a criminal act or not?'," Lemaire said. "For now, no one can answer that, but the theory being worked on is one of error."

The Third Marine Parachute Regiment based outside of Carcassonne numbers 1,200 troops.

Not a surprise, stuff like this is to be expected.

The French collectively are the least intellectually competent to properly handle firearms...

They need to stick to those things they are good at, like surrendering, scuttling their navy and making wine...

Considering the French have strikes every other day, the wounded were very lucky that the hospital staff wasn't on strike when they were brought in.

French don't shoot very well.

quote:

They need to stick to those things they are good at, like surrendering, scuttling their navy and making wine...

Sums it up best.

quote:

Originally posted by phdan:
French don't shoot very well.

Yeah no kidding....

This is all very Bogus too... I mean where was the blank adapter in this whole event????.... I know of no firearm that will shoot blanks without a blank adapter being installed.

This whole event reeks of incompetence, on the part of the dip-S!@# that did the shooting and the immediate chain of command..

What a bunch of POUGs...

Ever seen a war movie? Pleanty of weapons fire without blank adapters.

quote:

Originally posted by runfuret:
Ever seen a war movie? Pleanty of weapons fire without blank adapters.

Aren't those specially modified?

Anyway, you can't really criticize the French army for being cowards any more. That soldier sure kicked the crap out of a few squads of civilians.

quote:

Originally posted by runfuret:
Ever seen a war movie? Pleanty of weapons fire without blank adapters.

Movie replica weapons have a special blank adapter built into the barrel so that the weapon will appear to be firing live rounds; if you look closely, you'll see it inside the muzzle. Those weapons, however, can ONLY fire blanks.

This whole story sounds strange. Even if they were using blanks, is it French Marine SOP to indiscriminately open fire on a crowd of civilians because there is ONE terrorist with a hostage in the middle of them? It literally sounds like this knucklehead squeezed the trigger and the weapon went wild...

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is it French Marine SOP to indiscriminately open fire on a crowd of civilians because there is ONE terrorist with a hostage in the middle of them?

Maybe the french have differant rules of engagement. It could simplify many things, but be a PR fiasco.

quote:

Originally posted by simonferrer:

quote:

Originally posted by runfuret:
Ever seen a war movie? Pleanty of weapons fire without blank adapters.

Movie replica weapons have a special blank adapter built into the barrel so that the weapon will appear to be firing live rounds; Those weapons, however, can ONLY fire blanks.

Yes that's correct. I did some movie extra work a few years back, Kevin Kostner's "The Postman"... They have a whole armorers crew that keeps all of the blank firing prop firearms ready to go. Fot the little work they do, they make a HUGE amount of money. Pretty sweet gig!!!

quote:

Originally posted by azmax64:

quote:

is it French Marine SOP to indiscriminately open fire on a crowd of civilians because there is ONE terrorist with a hostage in the middle of them?

Maybe the french have differant rules of engagement. It could simplify many things, but be a PR fiasco.

That's what I was thinking. Based on how the Foreign Legion operated in Bosnia, I would have to guess that the French might engage that way. But it hardly seems to be the thing to demonstrate to French civilians on their own soil; like you said, "PR fiasco".

But we're second-guessing this incident based on one news article. Possibly, further reports will clarify the situation.

I think it was purposeful...

There is no way the French could have ****ed up that bad.

That's a key point. Didn't the article mention at one point that the soldier pulled the magazine out of his pocket instead of his LBE? That would indicate a deliberate action. There appears to be more to this than is visible on the surface.

French soldier? WTF is that???

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That's a key point. Didn't the article mention at one point that the soldier pulled the magazine out of his pocket instead of his LBE? That would indicate a deliberate action. There appears to be more to this than is visible on the surface.

Yep this soldier did it on purpose and someone is trying to cover it up for some reason.

Ive fired blanks without a blank adapter

Besides, if you have ever seen something put through a rifle with blanks in the chamber it will knock that blank adapter off like it wasnt even there.

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Ive fired blanks without a blank adapter

Besides, if you have ever seen something put through a rifle with blanks in the chamber it will knock that blank adapter off like it wasnt even there.

But if it was an accident why did it take at least 17 rounds to find out what was up? And why did the soldier take the magazine from his pocket?

Furthermore the French put blanks and real ammo in different color magazines.

This version of the story has a little more detail about the situation:

[URL=http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080630/wl_afp/francemilitaryaccident_080630155548][/URL]


Sarkozy vows punishment after soldier shoots 17
by Franck Madoeuf
Mon Jun 30, 11:55 AM ET

CARCASSONNE, France (AFP) - French President Nicolas Sarkozy promised swift and severe punishment Monday after a soldier used real bullets instead of blanks and wounded 17 people at an army base open day.

The sergeant fired his assault rifle into a crowd of hundreds of visitors watching parachute commandos simulate an assault to free hostages Sunday at the base near the southwestern city of Carcassonne.

A three-year-old boy, who took bullets in the heart and in the arm, and both his parents were among the victims, officials said.

An eyewitness told AFP that "suddenly, people were falling, we thought it was part of the exercise, and then we saw blood".

Sarkozy said after he visited some of the wounded in a Carcassonne hospital that the shooting did not appear to be criminal but that it was the result of "unacceptable negligence" for which he promised a "rapid and severe response."

Five children were among the 15 civilians wounded.

The three-year-old boy was operated on overnight and was in a stable condition, hospital officials said, adding that two of the victims were in a "serious" condition but all were stable.

Two soldiers were also wounded.

The sergeant who fired the shots from his FAMAS assault rifle was described as an experienced soldier with no history of behavioural or psychological problems.

He is in custody and prosecutors said they will ask judges to charge him with unintentionally inflicting wounds. Three other soldiers detained after the incident were released.

The eyewitness who spoke to AFP and asked not to be named, said there were seven or eight soldiers with guns taking part in the simulation, with one of them in the middle of the hundreds of spectators pretending to be a terrorist.
Immediately after the real shots were fired, "an official shouted out over the loudspeakers "Cease fire!", he said.

Military and civilian investigators have opened probes into the events at the Third Marine Parachute Regiment barracks.

The use of the live rounds was "99.9 percent" likely to be "an unintentional fault," said Colonel Benoit Royal, the head of the French army's information service.

Defence Minister Herve Morin said the shooter had first fired a magazine of blanks and then loaded a fresh magazine but this time with live bullets.

"Why did he have it in his pocket?" asked Morin, who accompanied Sarkozy on his visit to the Carcassonne hospital and to visit other victims taken to another hospital in the nearby city of Toulouse.

The senior official for the Aude region where Carcassonne is located, Bernard Lemaire, said that investigators believed the deadly ammunition was loaded by mistake.

"The question being asked is 'Did the soldier engage in a criminal act or not?'," Lemaire said. "For now, no one can answer that, but the theory being worked on is one of error."

The Third Marine Parachute Regiment based outside of Carcassonne numbers 1,200 troops.]



So it seems that it was a demonstration of a surgical insertion hostage rescue, but this guy didn't stick with the plan.

quote:

Originally posted by GeraldM:

quote:

Ive fired blanks without a blank adapter

Besides, if you have ever seen something put through a rifle with blanks in the chamber it will knock that blank adapter off like it wasnt even there.

But if it was an accident why did it take at least 17 rounds to find out what was up? And why did the soldier take the magazine from his pocket?

Furthermore the French put blanks and real ammo in different color magazines.

Im not saying it was on purpose or not. Im just saying its not impossible for a weapon to not have a blank adapter on it when firing blanks. And even if it did it wouldnt stop anything from coming out of the barrel.