Long, but educational.

Warning Ladies, Graphic.

**** that film...

Its a Goebels wannabe behind it.

If you want to know thine enemy I got a good book for you and another good one that explains why the Middle East is how it is.

quote:

Originally posted by GeraldM:
**** that film...

Its a Goebels wannabe behind it.

If you want to know thine enemy I got a good book for you and another good one that explains why the Middle East is how it is.

Mind if I inquire as to details? I would be interested to read these...

Two books:

To explain something about how the Middle East is how it is, read "What went wrong" by Bernard Lewis (who is the premier specialist on the Middle East, a proffessor at Princeton and was called to advise Presidents on issues of the Middle East).

For something about how Muslims think there is "Islam: The Straight Path," by John Esposito, who writes about Islam from the perspective of a Roman Catholic having lived in a Roman Catholic Monastary for a decade. He is a proffessor at Georgetown University.

I'll have to look into those books. Thanks for posting them.

quote:

Originally posted by WENDELLKEITHDUNCAN:
Long, but educational.

Warning Ladies, Graphic.

9/11 will be a day that America will never forget, the video of the planes flying into the twin towers still makes me just as angry today as it did then.

I'd reccomend "Islam: A Thousand Years of Faith and Power" by Jonathan Bloom and Sheila Blair. It was used as a text in a class I took on the subject and even has color pictures. It is important to get a balanced look. There are plenty of books on the new rack at Barnes & Noble about how terrible Islam is. You also don't want to read a book from an apologist.

While we're throwing books out there I'd like to toss one called Baghdad Without a Map by Tony Horwitz. It was written before Desert Storm but is pretty funny and factual at the same time. Its basically the author's adventures in Arabia. I think its just at around 300 pages but a great read.

quote:

Originally posted by foxred03:
I'd reccomend "Islam: A Thousand Years of Faith and Power" by Jonathan Bloom and Sheila Blair. It was used as a text in a class I took on the subject and even has color pictures. It is important to get a balanced look. There are plenty of books on the new rack at Barnes & Noble about how terrible Islam is. You also don't want to read a book from an apologist.

I'd rather an apologist than a condemer. With a condemer it just makes you dislike the religion (more if you already do) and doesn't help you understand the adherents. With an apologist it may gloss over some of the bad stuff, but at least you know how Muslims think of themselves.

And something about that movie, its by Gert Wilder who is a Dutch Politician whose platform is "Muslims are evil, we should kick them out of the Netherlands" thus his design is to show Muslims as evil so he gets votes. His tactic is similiar to the Nazi strategy except replacing Jew with Muslim.

Anyways these people want to turn this into a religious war, and we don't want that. Our enemies want a religous war and they're better at it than us (seeing as the US doesn't have a state religion and most Christians and Jews moved beyond that die for your religion stage).

So how do you reason with people that believe truely in their hearts that they should rule the world in the name of their god and that everyone else has three choices:

1. submit to Allah and convert to Islam
2. live as slaves (Chirstians and Jews only)
3. die (all other religions)

We ARE in a religious war, like it or not, and maybe we need to start thinking of it in those terms.

quote:

Originally posted by shuman14:
So how do you reason with people that believe truely in their hearts that they should rule the world in the name of their god and that everyone else has three choices:

1. submit to Allah
2. live as slaves (Chirstians and Jews only)
3. die (all other religions)

We ARE in a religious war, like it or not, and maybe we need to start thinking of it in those terms.

Tell that to all the patriotic Muslims in the United States that fight and die in Iraq and Afghanistan, and support the War on Terrorism.

Its not a religious war, its a war between the United States, the West and moderate Muslims against oppurtunist who follow and use a sect of Islam known as Salafism. To defeat them we can't make the war against Islam, but rather for Islam. Part of our effort must be used to take the rug out from under the enemy and show how their brand of Islam is so contradictory to the Islam presented by Mohammed.

Part of winning any war is knowing who your enemy is and then making him not your enemy, either by destroying him or bringing him to your side. Not knowing your enemy and just fighting anyone who looks like him is a good way to make enemies stronger and lose the war.



Was he our enemy?



How about Major Ahearn? Another casaulty of OIF.



How about Captain Humayan Khan (seen in the casket)?

Saying Islamic militants represent Islam as a whole is like saying the Ku Klux Klan represents Christianity.

quote:

Its not a religious war, its a war between the United States, the West and moderate Muslims against oppurtunist who follow and use a sect of Islam known as Salafism.

I never said it was a war against all Muslims.

Is it a religious war to the Salafist?

Are THEY trying to turn it into a larger war of Muslim against the world?

quote:

Originally posted by shuman14:

quote:

Its not a religious war, its a war between the United States, the West and moderate Muslims against oppurtunist who follow and use a sect of Islam known as Salafism.

I never said it was a war against all Muslims.

Is it a religious war to the Salafist?

Are THEY trying to turn it into a larger war of Muslim against the world?

To the Salafists in the terror organisations it is, to the Salafists outside the terror organisations it isn't. However, we should not think of it or promote it as a religious war because as such it would be used by our enemies to bring the Muslim world as a whole against us.

I think that the guy that made the video has a valid point. Sharia law's creeping in, even here in the US. People are being prosecuted by some European and the Canadian governments (Mark Steyn-Canada, Brigitte Bardot-France, etc.)for speaking their minds about the negative Islamic influence that's taking hold. Political correctness will be the downfall of western civilization.

quote:

Originally posted by psychoABN:
I think that the guy that made the video has a valid point. Sharia law's creeping in, even here in the US. People are being prosecuted by some European and the Canadian governments (Mark Steyn-Canada, Brigitte Bardot-France, etc.)for speaking their minds about the negative Islamic influence that's taking hold. Political correctness will be the downfall of western civilization.

Dutch anti-Islam politician won't be charged
By TOBY STERLING - Associated Press Writer

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands --Dutch legislator Geert Wilders will not be prosecuted for inciting hatred of Muslims with his film denouncing the Quran, prosecutor said Monday.

Prosecutor said his film "Fitna," or "Ordeal" in Arabic, and statements Wilders wrote in Dutch newspapers were hurtful and insulting but not criminal.

The film juxtaposed Quranic verses against a background of violent film clips and images of terrorism by Islamic radicals. It aroused protests around the Muslim world after it was released on the Internet in March.

Wilders also was investigated for remarks published in the newspaper De Volkskrant calling the Quran fascist.

"I've had enough of Islam in the Netherlands; let not one more Muslim immigrate," he wrote in the paper. "I've had enough of the Quran in the Netherlands: Forbid that fascist book."

Prosecution spokeswoman Hanneke Festen said Wilders' statements were allowable under Dutch law, which forbids inciting hatred against groups on the basis of their race or creed but also grants leeway to freedom of speech.

"We came to the conclusion that (Wilders' statements) may be hurtful and painful for Muslims but they were made in the context of a debate in society," she said.

"That doesn't mean you can say anything, but you have to really cross a line and be unnecessarily hurtful and insulting and not add anything" to the national debate in order for prosecutors to act, she said.

Wilders told The Associated Press he was not surprised by the decision because he had stayed within the boundaries of Dutch law.

Wilders said that in the months since his film attacking radical Islam was broadcast on the Internet, he had received reactions from all over the world. "Most were very negative, but some were very positive," he said.

Mohamed Rabbae, chairman of the moderate National Moroccan Council, said the Dutch group will go to court to ask a judge to order a prosecution of Wilders anyway.

"My reaction is one of disappointment and divergence with the point of view of the prosecutor," he said.

Rabbae said the prosecutors had decided that Wilders' position did not amount to discrimination against Muslims, but that it criticized Islam.

"Islam is a big part of the identity of Muslims, so if you attack Islam it is for us the same as attacking and discriminating against Muslims," he said.

Wilders said he hopes prosecutors will send a copy of their decision to prosecutors in Jordan, where he faces a lawsuit. Wilders has said he is worried he could be arrested if he leaves the Netherlands because Jordan has informed Interpol he is wanted to face charges there.

That's the problem with free speech, sometimes your hear something you just don't like.

"Allah is happy when non-muslims get killed."

Wonder how he felt about my trip to Iraq?

Hey, I've taken some videos of you, and your own words, and some images from some of the things you've done and put them together in a nice little package...

And the reply: Liar! Racist! Anti-Muslim!

No one wants to admit that the heart of Islam is black and full of hate and rage and violence. And those who claim to follow Islam who do nothing to seperate themselves from those who undertake acts of terror and murder...

Are not one bit better.