My son just graduated OSUT and scored 250 on the final PT test. He reported for airborne, and he and 60 other guys failed the PT test. And not a single one passed the re-test. One of the guys had scored a perfect 300 on his final PT test but failed the airborne test. I just don't see how these guys could have gotten that much weaker within days of 'turning blue'. Is it possible that they had too many candidates and had to fail a certain number no matter what? And whether or not that's true, what happens to my son now?

Yes it is very possible. It is also very possible that he wasn't doing push ups to standard. They hold a very very very high standard for the PT test at Airborne school. If you don't do them perfectly, they will not count them. I went to Airborne school recently and 53 students failed the PT test. A few passed the re-test. Was your son doing bad push ups? It's possible. Were the instructors just thinning the herd? Also possible. You and I probably won't ever know for sure. As for what happens to him now, he will move to Headquarters Company of 1/507th as a holdover until he gets orders from his branch to PCS to a unit. He will probably be there a couple of weeks until he gets orders and leaves.

Wow! I've never heard of a conspiracy theory about zero day. Air Assault was the same way. 200 people show up, and a good percentage pack their bags that same day. The black hats don't cut any slack. Nor should they.

I seem to remember that, when giving an APFT, the evaluator must stop at 20 if he repeats the number more thamn 5 times. he is to bring the soldier to the front lean rest, and explain what the troop is doing wrong, then continue the test. this hods true for the Situps and pushups. but i remember Airborne school had a pull up part of the test that a LOT of people failed.

i think there is something that either your son has not told you, or that the evaluator was not following Army Regs..

quote:

Originally posted by Elesso:
I seem to remember that, when giving an APFT, the evaluator must stop at 20 if he repeats the number more thamn 5 times. he is to bring the soldier to the front lean rest, and explain what the troop is doing wrong, then continue the test. this hods true for the Situps and pushups. but i remember Airborne school had a pull up part of the test that a LOT of people failed.

i think there is something that either your son has not told you, or that the evaluator was not following Army Regs..

I think you’re the closest to it Elesso.
While still working sales, I worked with some young men wanting to go in.
They would talk about wanting to be ranger airborne and every other spec. opps program that I could see they would never meet up to because of their weight prob for one big reason. They were in total denial about themselves.
Even back when I was going through in the 60’s you would be surprises at how many young men could not do 10 pull ups. I never had a prob with pull ups and always made the 300 party with the test. Still have my certificate with my score filed away.
It really surprises me how much bs the young people fool themselves with now days.
Double talk and second guessing will not win anybody honors with the facts looking them in the face.
To many fat bodies thinking they can breeze through now days or that they can get by with their likeable line of bs.
Best thing is to get in shape and stay in shape. Leave the donutes, 1/4 pounders and giant milk shakes alone.
Be surprised how fast that cheap food can put the wieght on. And when a young trooper can hardly make it anyway, cheap over eating can take them out in a few days.

Finally got to talk to my son (as opposed to text messages) and here's what he said.

The first time, he did 61 pushups but they only counted 39. On the retest, they counted to 39, then kept saying "39, you need to go lower. 39, you need to go lower." Finally my son said his chest is touching the ground and he can't go any lower, but they still insisted he go lower.

Further, 75 guys failed - all on the pushups (the first event - having failed that there's no need to continue the test). On the retest, all 75 failed again - on the pushups.

It all just seems awful suspicious to me.

Push ups are not all there is to the test.

If your son can do 39 correct pushups and passed everything else he would have passed.
Push ups are not all that is needed to be a paratrooper.
I'm sorry your son did not make it.
But there is more to it than meets the eye here.

While I was going through jump school, there were more than that that didn't make it and it was not because of pushups.
I seen an Officer fail the door exit tower. He just could not get himself to jump.
Many didn't make it through the first week.

Some just aren't meant to be Airborne. Nothing to be ashamed of if he couldn’t make it.
There are many proud jobs in the Army.
I at times wish I would have went to chopper school.

quote:

Originally posted by caractacus49:
My son just graduated OSUT and scored 250 on the final PT test. He reported for airborne, and he and 60 other guys failed the PT test. And not a single one passed the re-test. One of the guys had scored a perfect 300 on his final PT test but failed the airborne test. I just don't see how these guys could have gotten that much weaker within days of 'turning blue'. Is it possible that they had too many candidates and had to fail a certain number no matter what? And whether or not that's true, what happens to my son now?

in my day i love that i can say that now ,o well where was i in my day they were really hard on you no slack at jump school thats right jump school not airborne school and thats all i have to say about that .

quote:

Originally posted by caractacus49:
Finally got to talk to my son (as opposed to text messages) and here's what he said.

The first time, he did 61 pushups but they only counted 39. On the retest, they counted to 39, then kept saying "39, you need to go lower. 39, you need to go lower." Finally my son said his chest is touching the ground and he can't go any lower, but they still insisted he go lower.

Further, 75 guys failed - all on the pushups (the first event - having failed that there's no need to continue the test). On the retest, all 75 failed again - on the pushups.

It all just seems awful suspicious to me.

I can't speak for Airborne school in this respect but they do this at Air Assault school to shrink the size of the class. Thats why first impressions are very important upon arrival at both Air Assault and Airbone school.

You can say it is unfair but I would disagree....both schools are run by the Airborne Corps. Both schools are in high demand and they have more applicants then slots open. So to be fair they allow more then they can take with each cycle and have to prune the first day or first week, they do this with very strict enforcement of standards.

Thats my two cents. I am sure some will disagree with me and thats their perogative I guess.

My barracks was next to the old Air Assault School at Ft. Campbell and saw folks in far better shape then me fail the school on Physical stuff. They didn't necessarily fail in the physical area....they either arrived cocky and arrogant attitudes or arrived with their uniform or packing list jacked up and the Cadre picked them out of the crowd for special treatment.

Typically, at Ft. Campbell the 101st Infantry MOS' were given more the benefit of the doubt at Air Assault School then the others attending because the Cadre knew they faced hell on earth if they failed us in the course. That was my perception. My perception is the Cadre did not harrass me as they did the others in attendence because I was Infantry.

I'll tell you what else, I stayed up the night before AAS school making sure my packing list was perfect, my E-Tool was freshly painted and spotless, etc. Uniform was relatively new, boots spitshined, etc.

Others, were a disaster, mud on the E-Tool, scuffed boots, missing items.......they were gone by day 3 if not right after the first formation.

So my guess is if your Son didn't actually fail physically with PT, he said something that was overheard that the Cadre didn't like, his uniform was jacked up or he conveyed an attitude that he was just going to lay low and eek by. Don't take this as a slam against your Son. It could have been something minor he did not realize at the time. It's common for some that fail this school to think they were eliminated unfairly. Very common.

This is just how both schools run.

I agree with everything ErichG2 said, They must make their classes smaller to be manageable and to enable quality learning environment. I will tell you guys the truth I went to Air Assault School twice, The 1st time I went I wasnt kicked out because of PT (I coud smoke 90% of the people there in PT at that time) but because of deficiencies in equipment (off colored army value tags, sand on the bottom of my running shoes, ect) Yes I was very ****ed off that I was booted but I did realize that the Air Assault class was designed for about 200 Soldiers and there were about 350 or more that showed up on zero day. And it was my fault that I didnt take the extra 30 minutes to ensure my stuff was squared away. But guess what happened, when I went through Air assault the second time I made sure I did everything to the standard or better, And when I went to Airborne school, Same thing did everything to Standard or better. There was no way I was going to go the same humiliation again knowing I deserved to be there and that I was better than the other guy that slid through.

Thank you everyone for your insight, the last two posts were especially helpful. My son can only use the computer at the Ft Benning library which blocks the military.com website (!) but I'll copy and paste everything and e-mail it to him.

He wants to apply to Air Assault next, then Airborne again in 6 months. Hopefully he'll have every little thing exactly right and he'll make it.

Thanks again!

"If your son can do 39 correct pushups and passed everything else he would have passed."

sorry oldbuck, but you're wrong. pushups is the first event. If you fail the first time you're supposed to get up and check in with a blackhat to redo them. If you fail again they have you sit in the bleachers and watch while the other soldiers continue the PT test. There is no chance to do any other part of the APFT.
Also, the standard are in the 17-24 age category. I had a 298 on my PT test, but I was also 30 years old. It scared me a little to know that I had to up my game, I had a lot less leeway for jump school.
And, most people fail on the pushups-41 club anyone? I'm sure you've heard of it. A good friend of mine was a member, had to sit around as a holdover the whole time I was there. The good news is, if you get a letter from your commander saying that you can pass the PT test, they'll allow you back.

They must have changed a lot of stuff.
There wasn't actually a pt test at all when I went to jumpschool.
They would drop people all the time and have them knock out ten or so and they would have everyone do ten pullups every morning before class started after the inranks inspection, but that was about it. Very few could do 10 pullups from what I seen.
The running was a peace of cake.
I could push out 50 in a heartbeat and pull ups were no prob.
When they did have the pt test I always hit the 300 pluss scores.
PT test were before and after jumpschool back in my day.
I also seen that very few people could do 30 pushups at one time.
I wouldn't think that pushups would be the major concern in the pt test.
Most that I seen, were only asked to do 10 to 20 at one time.
Some were just asked to drop more often than others during jumpschool.
Usually because of week tower door exits, moving to slow and other screwups.
I seen one trainee sent double-timing back to the barracks because of sawdust in his ear from the day before. LOL

So how many pushups do they have to do at one time in jumpschool now?

Then if there was a pt test, it must have been a little fast one, because I can't remember any major pt test that was a threat to me.
Of course that was in 1965 and maybe I'm just to old to remember that far back.

I remember the instructors were sure tuff on people back then and a lot of them failed during suspended harness class in ground week. Some were just to clumbsy and couldn't keep the prepaired landing position.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: oldbuckjumper,

quote:

So how many pushups do they have to do at one time in jumpschool now?

Get get tired of hearing about how it's someone elses fault for failing jumpschool.
So I'll be blunt. If you want it go get it. If you think it's a free ride and your going to be able to gain the title of paratrooper airborne, guess again.
I see lossing cookie eaters that think they can breeze by with sloopy equipment and moving like slugs.
You have to be a go getter if you want airborne. The black-hats can tell who deserves it and who's a floater.
So you losers get over it and stop trying to put the blame on something else and trying to say it's rigged.

If you would have got in shape and really wanted it in the first place, you would have dumped the butter before you got there and keep it off. There are some that dump the butter and then go back to being a butter baby after they get it.
I'm glad the black hats can see those types and do a good job of filtering out the slugs.

I'll say this. Be glad you weren't going to jump school in the fifties and sixties. I looked at one of the jump school documentaries recently and I must say it sure wasn't like the jump school I went to.
We took our pt test administered by the black hats and they weeded a bunch out that day. General Westmoreland told the instructors to weed them out and make it difficult. Thank God I made it. If our chest did not touch the instructors hand,it did not count. Also our situps were with the legs straight out with your pt buddy holding your ankles.
I wouldn't wanted wings if it was easy.

when i went through we had 50-60 guys that got into the 42 club. the class was over booked and the easiest way to cut the number down was pt test. all that happened was they moved to the next class