All grunts will have to be green belts. A good idea or will this lead to even more dilution of MCMAP?

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2007/07/marine_mcmap_requirements_070717/

Nearly seven years after the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program began, tens of thousands of Marines still have not earned their entry-level tan qualification belt.

The commandant signed a Corps-wide message Monday to change that.

Tan belt qualification — the first in a training sequence that progresses through gray, green, brown and black belt certification — will be required by year’s end, according to AlMar 34/07.

Commandant Gen. James Conway’s message also raised the bar on war fighters, requiring all infantrymen to earn green belts and everyone in combat arms fields, such as artillery, tanks and amphibious assault vehicles, to reach gray belt certification.

Joe Shusko, a retired lieutenant colonel and director of the Corps’ Martial Arts Center for Excellence, said he considers aviation Marines “combat arms” under the commandant’s guidance and included members of the Individual Ready Reserve in Conway’s reference to “all Marines, both active and Reserve.”

With about 10,000 instructors and 1,200 instructor-trainers certifying Marines in martial arts throughout the Corps, Shusko estimates that 150,000 leathernecks are currently wearing at least a tan belt with their combat utility uniform. That leaves approximately 30,000 active-duty Marines and an unknown number of reservists who haven’t yet learned “Semper Fu.”

Of these, it’s likely that most if not all are senior enlisted Marines or senior officers because the Corps has been requiring tan belt certification of all recruits in boot camp and new lieutenants at The Basic School since late 2001, Shusko said.

This was a requirement 3-4 years ago when I went through MCMAP training. I think this has more to do with enforcing the previously policy that all Marines would be at least tan-belt qualified, and combat arms MOS's at least green-belt qualified.

MCMAP=Gay

We need a totally different Martial Arts Program.

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leathernecks are currently wearing at least a tan belt with their combat utility uniform.

So they actually wears different color belt with their cammies?

I think when they first started the martial arts program in Quantico if you were one of the instructors, you are either CCI (Close Combat Instructor, green shirt with black prints) or CCIT (Trainier, black shirt with red prints). Not sure how it goes now but back then to become a CCI it requires a 2 weeks course. Close combat drills, bull in the ring, house of pain, all that good stuff. And CCIT was 8 weeks total I believe.

grunt reservists getting a green belt during drill weekends? Lets waste valuable drill time doing the warrior yell with mouthgards.

It defeats the purpose that I thought the belt system was supposed to serve: A green belt doesn't make you some kind of super ninja commando: it makes you qualified to instruct those below you. Does this mean that all Squad Leaders will have to become Brown Belts now so that they can still instruct?

Either way I thought we get more out of practical application: more TOPO and they should bring in some more free form stuff too. It is better than the shadow boxing that you have to do a lot with MCMAP.

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Originally posted by motarded:
grunt reservists getting a green belt during drill weekends? Lets waste valuable drill time doing the warrior yell with mouthgards.

Yeah we has about 20-30 Marines from my unit go to Hawaii to get green belts. It took 2 drills to get our grey's I wonder how long it will take to get our green belts.

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Originally posted by motarded:
grunt reservists getting a green belt during drill weekends? Lets waste valuable drill time doing the warrior yell with mouthgards.

I second that!! Me think the green belt would at least take up a quarter of the fiscal year for reserve grunts.

If this eats up some of the pointless standing by that takes place during indoor drills on Sunday, then fine. But if my very meager experience so far in the USMC stands, then I think that better training will be sacrificed, while the Sunday afternoon standby will remain.

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Originally posted by motarded:
grunt reservists getting a green belt during drill weekends? Lets waste valuable drill time doing the warrior yell with mouthgards.

My reserve unit offered a grey belt class, outside of drill weekends though. It's good in a way, because you don't waste a drill weekend doing MCMAP, but then again, not a lot of people will come during a non-drill weekend to go do MCMAP.

The majority of units out there are most certainly FOR the new MCMAP training initiative. Units go through excruciating numbers of pre-deployment classes in preperation for OIF (part of the PTP program) and many of the "tie-ins" associated with MCMAP would fulfill predeployment requirements in addition to creating a forum in which Marines are more likely to listen.

The problem arises with the reality of fielding the program within such a short time span. The facts are that the majority of V units I have encountered do not possess enough MAIs, and a severe shortage of MAITs to oversee the training of so many Marines to Green Belt. Factor in Squad Leaders Course, HRST Masters, Advanced Mortar Leaders Course, and the gamit of PME schools that Marines must attend and you realize how difficult it becomes to send your best NCOs away to earn their instructor rating. I am not saying this is impossible or even impractical (Battalions will make it happen as they always do), but the Marine Corps must be prepared for the cost/benefit of this decision.

The dirty truth of MCMAP program is that a number of Battalions have a serious aversion to practicing green belt ground fighting techniques during OIF/MEU workups due to the high injury factor and way it affects readiness. While these injuries do not represent a flaw in the program (just lack of attention by instructors or SMU), it is a harsh reality to lose Marines for 6to8 weeks with injuries. Not to mention that many units do not possess the necessary batons, masks, shin guards, gloves, or rubber rifles to practice simulated SASO environments.

I am all for the program, and the strength/values it brings to the table, I just hope that V units will be given the tools and instructor quotas to make the Commandant's goal a reality while preparing for the mean streets of Ramadi/Fallujah/Karma/Hit/(insert any city here). What do the planners and facilitators at TECOM have to say about this? I will feel better when I see LtCol Shusko's plan to make mission (which have historically always answered the mail)

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Originally posted by AHill_USMC:
MCMAP=Gay

We need a totally different Martial Arts Program.

I disagree... i made it to green before i got out... and we learned alot of black belt stuff from one of the platoon sgt's in iraq.. the higher u go, the cooler the stuff u learn..

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Originally posted by ckrisz:
If this eats up some of the pointless standing by that takes place during indoor drills on Sunday, then fine. But if my very meager experience so far in the USMC stands, then I think that better training will be sacrificed, while the Sunday afternoon standby will remain.

I dont know about yours but at ours it's usually sgts. and higher who are doing their sunday meetings while the team leaders and below wait.... I doubt that they'd send some cpls let alone lcpls to schools to go get the belts before some of the squad leaders or higher.

I hate the pointless sit around bullshit time so I kick classes on the saw or radio or something dumb that the new joins dont know but should.

I think the best idea would be for reserve units to conduct the grey/green belt training during AT. If you assume everyone in the unit is tan belt qualified, the grey course could be completed in 4 full days for about 8 hours a day (essentially 2 drill weekends). For the other 8 hours of that workday, start teaching the written/classroom related requirements of the green belt material and spend 8-12 hours a day for the rest of AT doing green belt MCMAP. I would definitely be up for that rather than sitting in the field for 11 days straight doing NOTHING at all (last AT).

More practical application is what we need. I liked it when they actually let us put on flaks and go at it. You get more out of an hour of sparring than a week's worth of daily MCMAP drills.

My second year in the Corps is when the mcmap program had just started and all the boots started showing up with their tan belts. The program was brand new and my new platoon sgt was fresh out of quantico with his brown instructor belt. Before the end of the deployment my whole platoon had been greenbelt certified. We beat the hell out of each other and loved it. It was a diversion and the only time we got to scuffle for almost a year. It was and still is better than any line training will ever be. 1st Platoon, 3/6 India Co.

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MCMAP=Gay

We need a totally different Martial Arts Program.

Agreed! McMAP is a fuggin watered downed, piss poor martial arts program, to make you "think" you are invincible in hand to hand combat.

I was taught the most deadly thing on the face of this planet was a "Marine with his RIFLE". I cant imagine a Marine without it. Train Marines to shoot with the deadly accuracy we are known for and teach a Marine close combat with his rifle and leave most of the rest to the resourcefulness of a Marine. Where is the emphasis being placed in the Corps today?

I think that the MCMAP program is a great addition to the Marine Corps. Who's to dissagree that learning something to further the fight in your favor is a waste of time? And any marine that thinks he's invincible after he graduates with his tan belt and goes on his 10 day leave is just completing the next untaught step. Humility. Everyone knows that tough guy, and everyone has seen him get laid out. Even if it dousn't happen out in the civilian world, 100% of these specific marines learn that they aren't all that on day 1 in the fleet. At least from the grunt side of the house anyway.

Mcmap was called Mcbar when I served and all the training you ever wanted was going on every weekend at a bar of your choice.