http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/04/us/politics/04florida.html

MIAMI, May 3 — Casting more uncertainty over the presidential nominating process for 2008, the Florida Legislature on Thursday moved the state’s primary up to Jan. 29, ignoring the threat of sanctions from the national Republican and Democratic parties.

The new date puts the Florida primary ahead of contests in all but four states. Political leaders here hope it will give Florida, the most populous swing state, a bigger role in choosing presidential nominees.

But officials in other states said Florida’s move would only create more chaos around the nominating process, which has already been upended by other states’ decisions to hold earlier primaries. New Hampshire may move up its primary as a result — possibly even to this year — and in South Carolina, Republican officials said they, too, would advance the date of their primary.

“South Carolina will name a date that keeps us first in the South,” said the party chairman, Katon Dawson. “It could be as early as Halloween and our version of trick-or-treat, if we have to.”

Choosing primary dates has always been contentious, with states that held primaries late in the season feeling marginalized. But frustration soared this year, and dozens of states began to jostle for position, with more than 20 so far settling on Feb. 5 or considering it.

The shifting dates have forced the presidential campaigns to reconsider every aspect of their nominating strategy — where to compete, how to spend money, when to start television advertising.

Both parties have been trying to put a halt to the leapfrogging. They have said they would penalize all but a handful of states if they hold a primary before Feb. 5, stripping them of half their delegates to the national nominating conventions. Under Democratic Party rules, the candidates can also be penalized, losing the delegates they won in the rule-breaking state.

But Florida officials scoffed at those threats, calling the conventions little more than a formality.

“We have people who get invited to a big party where they drop a balloon and people wear funny hats,” said Marco Rubio, speaker of the State House of Representatives. “But they don’t have any role to play.”

“At the end of the day,” said Mr. Rubio, a Republican, “the truth of the matter is that the nominee of either party is going to want to make sure they have not offended the big donors and the biggest activists in the most important state in the country that is electorally available.”

Some of the states that have moved their primaries to Feb. 5, including California, Connecticut, New Jersey and New York, said they did not expect to seek even earlier dates.

“I just don’t see it as likely,” said Ron Nehring, chairman of the California Republican Party. “California is going to be relevant, regardless of what other states choose to do.”

In addition to New Hampshire, where the date is tentatively scheduled for Jan. 22, the states with contests before Jan. 29 are Iowa and Nevada.

In recent presidential election years, Florida’s primary has taken place in March.

The Florida House voted unanimously to move it up on Thursday, a week after the Senate approved the measure. In the same legislation, it approved Gov. Charlie Crist’s plan to replace the touch-screen voting machines used in many of Florida’s counties with paper ballots counted by scanning machines.

Spokesmen for two Democratic presidential candidates, Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and Barack Obama of Illinois, indicated they would not hold back from campaigning in Florida.

“The D.N.C. and the Florida state party will arbitrate this and we will compete on the final field vigorously,” Bill Burton, a spokesman for Mr. Obama, said in an e-mail message, referring to the Democratic National Committee.

Stacie Paxton, press secretary for the Democratic National Committee, said that the party would hold fast to its rules but that the committee was working with the state party to find alternatives complying with the rules. Ms. Paxton suggested that Florida’s primary could be nonbinding and its delegates still allowed at the nominating convention, if the state agreed to hold a caucus later in the year.

“This is not the first time that a state legislature has set its primary on a date outside D.N.C. party rules,” she said.

Though Florida meant to pump up its importance in the primaries, it might have done better sticking to March, said William Galvin, the secretary of state in Massachusetts and leader of a National Association of Secretaries of State committee that opposes the movement toward earlier primaries. If no candidates emerge as clear front-runners after the “super-duper” primary on Feb. 5, Mr. Galvin said, states that vote later could prove pivotal.

“This is kind of like the track touts trying to figure out what’s going to happen at the Kentucky Derby,” he said.

The surest outcome of Florida’s decision, Mr. Galvin said, is that New Hampshire’s primary, the first in the nation, will be moved earlier. “This gives a perfect excuse if they were looking for one,” he said.

William Gardner, New Hampshire’s secretary of state, would not say Thursday when he planned to hold the state’s primary, but also would not rule out that it could take place before Jan. 1. “I hope not,” Mr. Gardner said. “But it’s not beyond the realm of possibility.”

Mr. Rubio, the speaker of the Florida House, said moving up the primary would force presidential candidates to pay more attention to issues that are important locally, like soaring property insurance rates and even the immigration policy for Venezuelans.

But Mr. Galvin said that was unlikely, with so many primaries bunched together early in the process. “The idea that you go to a state and talk about the issues they care about,” he said, “is less realistic than it ever was before.”

Reporting was contributed by Christine Jordan Sexton from Tallahassee, Fla.; Jennifer Medina from Hartford; Ronald Smothers from Trenton; and Danny Hakim from Albany.

Correction: May 5, 2007


A chart yesterday about changes in the dates of Democratic primaries and caucuses from 2004 to 2008 misidentified the time frame for the selection of the District of Columbia’s delegates to the party’s nominating convention. While Washington does hold a primary before the Jan. 14 caucuses in Iowa, the results are nonbinding; the actual delegate selection will not take place until February.

FYI the Florida Legislature is Republican controlled...

This isn't spin, this is fact.

At least the Dems are keeping to their rules.....

Republicans want to change rules to suit them....

the list could go on and on...both state and federal....beginning with the former Leader of the republican party...George Bush, the current lame duck president.

It's the least we could do to help you Dems out...

lol.

I'm a moderate...I vote on issues, not party ideology...but yeah...

Fixed it for ya!

FYI the Florida Legislature is Republican controlled... because the PEOPLE of Florida VOTED it that way.

First, this is a year old article.

Second, what the RNC chooses to do has ZIP to do with Dems farking up their voters. NOTHING!

Try again!

Moderate? What a joke. "Moderate" is code for "liberal who doesn't want to be called a liberal" AND "moderate" has ZIP to do with "voting issues". Hillary calls herself a moderate but I don't think you will find too many saying she isn't a libera. Show me a moderate and I'll show you a liberal.

The Democraps didn't have to pull their deligates either did they. They Democraps didn't like the game, so they took their ball and went home. Oh well, seems they got what they deserved.

Registered Voters (2000) 8,746,037
Republican 3,425,661 - 39.2%
Democratic 3,801,142 - 43.5%
Independents/Other Parties 1,518,078 - 17.4%

Funny as of 2000 they still outnumber the Republicans, but they just don't seem to be getting the job done at the polls do they.

lol I knew it would stir up the pot......

I have voted split ticket on a bunch of items...local, state, federal...I vote issues.....

next, although the article is 1 year old...Iknow that and...it had to start somewhere......

I mean, why change the rules that have worked?

Florida always fuggs up elections......usually republican controlled......

Elections (primaries/caucases) are institutions that are based on tradition and stats...Why Flordia wanted to buck the national system of counting votes is beyond me.....they were a little glib in their reasons for changing the way America has voted.......

quote:

We have people who get invited to a big party where they drop a balloon and people wear funny hats,” said Marco Rubio, speaker of the State House of Representatives. “But they don’t have any role to play.”

next, the dems had rules...Flordia changed them against the party (both parties actually) and the dems sanctioned them..

Now to put it into barney logic:

say you had a child whom you told no to..say they didn;t want to eat their food and then they threw it ont he ground and said no, I want something else...are you going to then give them dessert?

thin about it..this was a move away from the institution of finding a nominee....and the dems, rightly so, sanctioned Florida and MI (where I live)...the republicans honsetly should be blamed for changing the rules.....not the dems.....

ok ips...just for you.......

If the dems changed the rules to suit them, the republicans would cry foul...

The dems held their ground....told Florida not to attempt a change to an institution that worked.....Florida did it anyway..and now we have what we have.....

Flordia republicans hatched this idea to change.......fact.

quote:

The Democraps didn't have to pull their deligates either did they.

yes they did...tell me you are going to let a state make party rules?

NO.

quote:

Moderate? What a joke.

You go ahead and vote party ideology all the time......

blindly......casting a vote...for the sake of saving a dime.

lol at yourself...please.

I got all the republicans to agree on something........besides on who to pick as their nominee:

an Arkansas religious right wing redneck, a MI silver spooner....or a G. Bush (former leader of the republican party and current lame duck president) sympathizer.



I must be on to something here......

Huh?

quote:

yes they did...tell me you are going to let a state make party rules?

Translation == We can't let voters decide. We need to script the elections so that we get the outcome we need

It should make no difference when an election is held. It should be up to the state to decide when they hold elections. If the party wants to hold it on their schedule, and set their rules, then they should fund 100% of the cost of the election, provide all the voting machines, printing all the documentation, mailing out all the ballots, and run it by their rules. That way, they can get the outcome they want and leave state funding alone.

Lets move this to the political thread...

lol insults were thrown (Moderate, joke)...I'm not mad or butt hurt, but it has moved beyond the openess of the forum.

okey dokey! It's your thread and if that's where you want it.

I am a firm believer in institutions and voting....

letslook at IA...they have a long history of being able to get the candidates down to the voters level in all things that involve their campaign...the voters in IA know how to caucus, know how to gauge candidates, nd have years of asking tough questions while doing it...heck if you are a candidate and are ot invited into the home of a caucus goer, its proibably an insult)

now take another state...lets sy FL, TX; these two states have had problems on a few occasions concerning voting...most of the time.

TX recently had a horrible caucus plagued by fraud, Fl couldn't count votes properly in 2000(hanging chads) and a few other states couldnt do elections right.....

It should be known by now with what I have written that not all states conduct elections the same way or the same quality....

IA on the other hand does causcuses (harder than primaries) almost without flaw and they welcome it...their voters are intune with issues, and the populace understands the gravity of the situation.....

FL on the other hand...not so much...or any other state rather..

Not all states conduct elections equally..especially during primaries....

Its ike this...Fl is not new to dodgeball. They say they know the rules and everyone knows they know the rules...however they arent as good as everyone else because they haven't practiced that much...but they and MI want to be captains and have a larger say in how the team is made up......IA is the captain and has been for a long time...they come from the same background and such, but have been playing dodgeball more than MI and FL combined...FL says OK, but we want to change the rules so we can be captains and pick the team....IA, we will leave you alone but you others that have been around for a while, we are going to go ahead and pick how we want....oh say we can't...we just did.....guess who is either going to get thrown out of the game for unsportsmanlike conduct or kicked the shiteout of...FL and MI....

FL and MI, PA, WA and a bunch of others in terms of their voting electorate don't have the experience or the care enough to gauge the primary candidates...

That is why certain states are placed like they are by the parties and the legislatures......not all states care about elections and the people in those states on the whole could careless about elections...IA on the other hand and the other front runner states who are first do...thats why it matters what states go when.

The DEMS fugged up MI.......I think I forgot to say that...oops.

I didn't think to say it because I live there/here...umm anyways...Granholm...WTF?

For your info:

Hillary's folks really want those delegates she "won" in Florida to be counted. As you know (if you've been paying attention) the Democrat primary in Florida was held early, contrary to the wishes of the Democrat National Party. They were told that their delegates would not be seated if they went through with an early primary, and now the Hillary Democrats are screaming bloody murder.

You've probably heard during the past week or so that this is really a mess the Republicans made for the Democrats .. and that the Democrats are just innocent victims of some Republican chicanery in Florida. After all, it was a Republican controlled Florida legislature that scheduled these early primaries.

Do you want the rest of the story? Here you go. It was a Democrat Florida State Senator, not a Republican, who introduced the bill calling for the early primary. Not only that, but every single Democrat in the Florida Senate voted in favor of moving the primaries. The Democrats put the legislation on the table – and the Democrats hammered it through.

Yay for politicians..Democrats are fuggin themselves this entire election cycle.

Democrat dilemma - the Democrat Party has a crisis of monumental proportions: they don't know whether to vote for the "nut" with two boobs or the "boob" with two nuts.

+1000

yeah that was funny.