From MG Hertog herself at Andrews AFB, due to some troop complaining we have been Security Forces for over a decade now we will have the Police removed from the shield and issued a new one with Security Forces.

She also touched on the new DF-LC system, which it sounds like the heart is in the right place behind getting all of our gear standardized however its still crappy equipment and not very Law Enforcement focused which leads to some serious officer safety issues for us that are still in a Law Enforcement mission.

Lastly she spoke about the civilians. Apparently some base out there has an almost entire squadron of Civilians. Guess what they did? Went on strike. So she touched on the need to bring balance to our squadrons. Also they will have standardized badges/patches/ and training. I also heard her say that they will be held to the same PT Standards (Yeah right..) anyhow I don't like the fact that we are loosing part of our heritage. The Military Police of the Army has been around a lot longer then we have, the have managed to keep their carrer field's heritage pretty much the same minus the brassard which is now a patch. I don't see how the Air Force has changed the name of our career field 3 times and now is changing our badge again.
-Defensor Fortis

quote:

Originally posted by Security_Forces_Pup:
From MG Hertog herself at Andrews AFB, due to some troop complaining we have been Security Forces for over a decade now we will have the Police removed from the shield and issued a new one with Security Forces.

She also touched on the new DF-LC system, which it sounds like the heart is in the right place behind getting all of our gear standardized however its still crappy equipment and not very Law Enforcement focused which leads to some serious officer safety issues for us that are still in a Law Enforcement mission.

Lastly she spoke about the civilians. Apparently some base out there has an almost entire squadron of Civilians. Guess what they did? Went on strike. So she touched on the need to bring balance to our squadrons. Also they will have standardized badges/patches/ and training. I also heard her say that they will be held to the same PT Standards (Yeah right..) anyhow I don't like the fact that we are loosing part of our heritage. The Military Police of the Army has been around a lot longer then we have, the have managed to keep their carrer field's heritage pretty much the same minus the brassard which is now a patch. I don't see how the Air Force has changed the name of our career field 3 times and now is changing our badge again.
-Defensor Fortis

WTF are you talking about. No cop squadron wemt on strike, it was a flying support unit at a AETC base. And what do you mean about standardization? If you are talking about civilians having to wear a uniform or standardized clothing that will never happen. Now for the DOD police force then yes there should be standardization.

quote:

WTF are you talking about. No cop squadron wemt on strike, it was a flying support unit at a AETC base. And what do you mean about standardization

I must have misunderstood her then. Thats the impression she left with us is that DoAF Civilian Police Officers went on strike. As far as standardization I am talking about how Lackland Guards patches will match the ones with Edwards, Travis ECT. To include their training and "standards." I was also refering to the Active Duty standardizing our gear in form of the Defensor Fortis Load Carrying System. Which still leaves us with not the best gear for the job we are doing in many respects.

Our switch from contract guards to DoD Guards/Police has been horrible. At least twice in the past month or two the entire shift of Guards called in and/or no-showed to work.
At my unit, we either need to go back to civilian contract guards or man our own gates.


And yes, DFLCS is dog****. There is no such thing as one single set of gear for every mission. It sounds nice, but is unrealistic.

A little clarity...

The change of the shield from SP to SF is being "looked at." Will it happen? That's to be decided...I'd expect on BG McMillan's shift.

DF-LCS...yes it is "standardized." Garrett Container won the contract to produce it. Yes its a dysfunctional piece of equipment. Do you have to wear it? Only if your commander says so.

Civilians. First, its illegal for government civilians to go on strike. If you remember your history of the Reagan Administration, you will recall he fired every air traffic controller in the US when they went on strike. Second, yes the Department of the Air Force Security and Police Officer uniform is being standardized. You will see the same uniform, patches and badges as you go base to base. They will also, if they have to attend training, attend the same training...VA LETC for now. Finally, they will have to meet PT standards...but not AF. They are specific standards developed for their jobs. Suffice to say their not very tough.

On the subject of strikes, when LA AFB was under contract in the early 90s they were routinely under strike by their union. But again, government civilians can not legally strike.

As for civilians and absenteeism. Welcome to the joys of supervising civilians. Up through the mid 80s most of the AFLC bases (Tinker, McClellan, Hill, Kelly, Warner Robbins) had mainly civilian SP units. Not a success story hence the change out to full military units. Will it work better this time. Who knows? But we've been down this path before.

quote:

Originally posted by Security_Forces_Pup:
From MG Hertog herself at Andrews AFB, due to some troop complaining we have been Security Forces for over a decade now we will have the Police removed from the shield and issued a new one with Security Forces.

She also touched on the new DF-LC system, which it sounds like the heart is in the right place behind getting all of our gear standardized however its still crappy equipment and not very Law Enforcement focused which leads to some serious officer safety issues for us that are still in a Law Enforcement mission.

Lastly she spoke about the civilians. Apparently some base out there has an almost entire squadron of Civilians. Guess what they did? Went on strike. So she touched on the need to bring balance to our squadrons. Also they will have standardized badges/patches/ and training. I also heard her say that they will be held to the same PT Standards (Yeah right..) anyhow I don't like the fact that we are loosing part of our heritage. The Military Police of the Army has been around a lot longer then we have, the have managed to keep their carrer field's heritage pretty much the same minus the brassard which is now a patch. I don't see how the Air Force has changed the name of our career field 3 times and now is changing our badge again.
-Defensor Fortis

In my opinion this career field lost it's heritage with the career field merger back in 1997....

Glad I was in back when the AF actually had a LE mission, but those days are long gone.
I feel for all you airman who joined thinking you were going to be cops. My advice to you is, take advantage of all the training you get get, complete your enlistments and apply with a civilian LE agency.

Besides, pretty soon all of this AF LE stuff is going to be a moot point anyway, DoD Officer Bob will be one patrolling the base...

Take care and be safe out there.

Sounds like just aother way to justify staff hours on "studies" and "improvements".
Most of these are simply a way for senior staff types to justify their existence or push an agenda. The Big One, when SAC got killed and Absolute Crap Command and others formed, did not achieve one single thing operationally. However, it did allow those who couldn't cut in SAC to simply delete SAC, and spend close to $1billion(this was said to be a conservative estimate) on new signage, insignia, documentation, aircraft remarking, etc. And it's a move I think they're regretting, with the boondoggles that have occurred at former SAC bases in the recent past.
As to the change from SP to SF, I was glad I was no longer active duty and was watching from the sidelines. Total actual changes or improvements=0, except people got to have the letters SF in their signature blocks(big one for the wannabe brigade).

quote:

Originally posted by statebear:


Besides, pretty soon all of this AF LE stuff is going to be a moot point anyway, DoD Officer Bob will be one patrolling the base...

Take care and be safe out there.

Why does it always have to be "Bob" when ridiculing something?

quote:

Sounds like just aother way to justify staff hours on "studies" and "improvements".

Or could it be that people are doing what needs to be done with the resources available to accomplish the mission at hand?

quote:

Most of these are simply a way for senior staff types to justify their existence or push an agenda.

One of the basic laws of staff work is "an action transferred is an action completed." As such you don't take on work that doesn't need to be done. Moreover, there's plenty of work available to "justify your existence."

quote:

The Big One, when SAC got killed and Absolute Crap Command and others formed, did not achieve one single thing operationally.

Wars fought by SAC = 2, sort of...I'm spotting them Vietnam and Gulf War 1. Wars fought by ACC and others, and it depends on how you count here...but lets call it 3, you could count more if you count other named operations and/or campaigns.

quote:

As to the change from SP to SF, I was glad I was no longer active duty and was watching from the sidelines. Total actual changes or improvements=0,

Serious? We have systems and capabilities that even as short as 5 years ago few people even contemplated (detection/assessment systems, C2 systems, UAVs, wpn systems, new/better RTCs, etc)...and that's the easy stuff to mention. Is it perfect...nope. But the changes have been phenomenal and continue to evolve.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 15713302,

I remember when I was in that there was a design for a new SP badge. It looked basically like the LAPD badge. The SP badge if you look at it and see what all the design show, is pretty cool, it would be better in color. Although I do like the Marine Badge with the Marine seal in the middle. The Navy MA's use to have their base name on all their badges. The Army's is just boring.

I remember once on the uniform board that they had a thing about all law enforcement wearing TI hats instead of the beret. I was kind of glad that fell through.

quote:

Originally posted by 15713302:

quote:

The Big One, when SAC got killed and Absolute Crap Command and others formed, did not achieve one single thing operationally.

Wars fought by SAC = 2, sort of...I'm spotting them Vietnam and Gulf War 1. Wars fought by ACC and others, and it depends on how you count here...but lets call it 3, you could count more if you count other named operations and/or campaigns.

These were a result of renamimg commands and assets???

quote:

As to the change from SP to SF, I was glad I was no longer active duty and was watching from the sidelines. Total actual changes or improvements=0,

Serious? We have systems and capabilities that even as short as 5 years ago few people even contemplated (detection/assessment systems, C2 systems, UAVs, wpn systems, new/better RTCs, etc)...and that's the easy stuff to mention. Is it perfect...nope. But the changes have been phenomenal and continue to evolve.

Changs and improvements didn't occur when it was SPs?? I really doubt these changes had to do with the name change, most likely they were a result of new technology availability. A lot of the modern eqipment was contemplated back then by us stone age SPs, and wished for, but most of it at that time was still in its' early developmental infancy, and not available.

Don't get me wrong, I know, from being drafted into a short term job at USAFE, that staff functions are necessary and critical to overall mission completion. But at that time, probably 30% of the work completed had more to do with CYA and performance/efficiency report inflation. Decisions which, once you actually read them, decided nothing and changes to regulations/policies which changed nothing but semantics.
Having recently been on an AF base where I had been stationed and a recent visit at an Army base stateside, staff bloating is still alive and well. Much of this seems to have to do with the people at the top having the perception that the more subordinates you have, the more important you are.

But, none of this has anything to do with the origin of this thread. Changing the badge will not result in a suddenly smarter or more tactically proficient troop. It will be another semantic change that will divert money and manpower from mission related activities.

I don't mean to come off as negative here, but...

Who cares?

This affects my daily life so little.

The Air Force Security Police career field lost it's long and proud heritage with the career field merger back in 1997, what a huge mistake, Its very sad to say Air Force Cops are no more, "Security Forces" weak at best!

Noplis
Retired Air Force Cop!!

quote:

"Security Forces" weak at best!

So to get this straight. ~35K total force (Active, Guard, Reserve) SF are weak at best? Or are you just unhappy with a name?

Gotta tell you there are some folks out there doing some amazing things on a daily basis. Quite frankly, I would say the folks from the "good ole days" (I'm in that group) would have a hard time keeping up with the OPSTEMPO the young pups live with.

Be unhappy with the merger all you want but that argument was over in November of 96. But don't tell these young troops they're weak.

quote:

Originally posted by joenoplis:
The Air Force Security Police career field lost it's long and proud heritage with the career field merger back in 1997, what a huge mistake, Its very sad to say Air Force Cops are no more, "Security Forces" weak at best!

Noplis
Retired Air Force Cop!!

I dont see how we "lost" our heritage...I would say we simply started another chapter in it.

People always clown on the now, and cite the past as being bettertoughersmarter etc...should have been here yesterday, thats what the locals always say...

I remember "back in the day" we used to complain about never going anywhere or doing anything. Now we go too many places and do too many things...you just cant win.

quote:

Why does it always have to be "Bob" when ridiculing something?

Sorry Bob...

How does DOD Officer John sound...

No offense Johnny67....

quote:

Originally posted by 15713302:

quote:

"Security Forces" weak at best!

So to get this straight. ~35K total force (Active, Guard, Reserve) SF are weak at best? Or are you just unhappy with a name?

Gotta tell you there are some folks out there doing some amazing things on a daily basis. Quite frankly, I would say the folks from the "good ole days" (I'm in that group) would have a hard time keeping up with the OPSTEMPO the young pups live with.

Be unhappy with the merger all you want but that argument was over in November of 96. But don't tell these young troops they're weak.

Its rather interesting the U.S. Air Force Security Police had to change its name because of the Khobar Towers Towers Bombing, its as if we were not doing our jobs....and In my humble opinion a name change was not necessary, I compare it to Blackwater changing its name to Xe......same organization and personnel.
Air Force SF has the best and smartest young Americans the U.S. Air Force can find protecting Air Personnel and Resources, The U.S. Army Military Police have never changed their name, Pararescue will never change their name, whats in a name? Heritage.
I read a story today on Military.com http://www.military.com/news/a...mmand-activated.html
Global Strike Command.....its really Strategic Air Command, just in a new wrapper.

Be proud of ones history and heritage, what once was will be again!

My fellow Air Force Cops I wish you nothing but Gods protection and Gods Speed!!

Be Safe and thank you for your continued service from an old Air Force Cop!!

quote:

Originally posted by Security_Forces_Pup:
From MG Hertog herself at Andrews AFB, due to some troop complaining we have been Security Forces for over a decade now we will have the Police removed from the shield and issued a new one with Security Forces.

What ever happened with this? Is the shield going to change or has it already?

I networked with a DOAF officer on another site and he told me on his base the patrol cars now have the words "Security Forces" on them instead of "Police".

They even teaching LE at Tech School anymore?

quote:

What ever happened with this? Is the shield going to change or has it already?

I networked with a DOAF officer on another site and he told me on his base the patrol cars now have the words "Security Forces" on them instead of "Police".

They even teaching LE at Tech School anymore?

In my experience(s) it common, or otherwise not out of the ordinary to see Security Forces on vehicles. We normally only spell it out on trucks, since the truck bed will support such a long slogan in 3+" lettering. However we also have the badge (which reads Security Police), and various other decals on the car panels and trunk that say anything from "police" to "dial 911" to "XXX AFB Police".
Again, this is just what I have experienced at 3 different bases/commands. The reg (last I checked) leaves plenty of room to play with regarding vehicle decoration and labeling, and you will find a wide variety of vehicle styles, makes and models simply by going from one base or unit to another.

I always find it easier to cut down on confusion to simply verbally identify myself as "police" on any call, or when answering the Security Forces Control Center (previously known as the LE Desk). It'll get you past questions like "do I have the right number, I'm trying to call the police", or "are you security or the police" etc.

quote:

What ever happened with this? Is the shield going to change or has it already?

Not changing.

quote:

I networked with a DOAF officer on another site and he told me on his base the patrol cars now have the words "Security Forces" on them instead of "Police".

We're SF.

quote:

They even teaching LE at Tech School anymore?

Never really stopped. Don't have a separate track. But it's taught.