I went into the Air Force back in '98. They must of had a shortage of Security Forces because that's what job I got,plus quite a few other people,that went in Open General. I initially wanted something with Computers but since I couldn't get it guaranteed,I went in Open. Anyways, I made the best out of it. I went through Tech School with a positive outlook. I also planned on going to school and getting a Bachelors Degree by the end of my 4 years.

I got to my first base and our work schedule was 6 on-3 off,8 hr shifts. Our supervisors and flight chiefs were telling us all to go to school,BUT we had to finish our QC and CDC's before we could. I remember sitting in a Commanders Call, and they were giving out awards and a 19 year MSGT just received his Associates in CJ. Some of the guys next to me started laughing and a TSGT turned around and said, "Don't laugh,You'll see how much school you can attend being in this career field and going to the Desert 6 months out of the year."

That shut them up quick.

I did get discouraged a bit,but I was still determined. I hurried and finished my QC and CDC's. By that time,The THREATCON level jumped to Charlie and we were working 4 on-2 off,12 hr shifts. Our 2 days "off" consisted of weapon firings,appointments,and training,so techincally we had no days off.

I picked my second base on determining how much time I would have off so I could go to school. I heard alot of input and I was told to go to a Nuke base because they work 3 on 6 off. So, I picked FE Warren,Wy. We started off at 3-6,and I got a few classes in,but it quickly turned to a 3 on(field),3(travel in day,training,commanders option),3(convoy) and 3 off. Most of the time,I had to work an extra day in the field because of people and their PRP issues. Our Flight Chief had us in the office on training day for 8 hrs doing absolutely nothing. Commanders option was PT,training,and that stupid course we had to run because of a jackass LT. If we didnt have a convoy on our Convoy days,we were training on how to do a convoy.Our 3 days "off" consisted of weapon firing,dental/health appointments and ironically,everytime our Commander put us on 6 ring standby,was on our days off. Also,our jackass flight seargent gladly volunteered us to work extra convoy days,because some jackass flight couldn't do a convoy right to save their life.

Needless to say,that TSGT was right. I only managed to get a few classes in. If you were stationed in FE Warren in 200-2003, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. I never got deployed though,but I did get stop lossed because of September 11th and stayed in almost an extra year before I got out.

I remember,our Commander came to visit our flight. Our Flight Seargent told us that if the Commander asked us how we were,to tell her that we were great,and that we had no complaints. If we said anything else,we would have to pay for it,most likely working standby's on our days off.

Anyways,I'm rambling on and on. I decided to get out. I passed on the re-enlistment bonus which was at $36,000,I believe. I loved the Air Force,and being SF wasn't that bad,I just had bad leadership wherever I went. So,I heard that you could get out,and then come back in within a year and pick a different job and just go back to Tech School. I got out January 2003. I pretty much partied the whole month of January. I had almost $20,000 saved from the AF and I was getting Unemployment for 6 months,so I could have just lounged around for a year a did nothing. After my month of partying,I emailed an AFR about coming back in. No response. I called,they never called back. So, I went in,told them my situation. They said they werent taking prior service,but the Army recruiter said he'd sign me up right now and give me a bonus.

I decided to stay out and go to college. While going to college, I was looking for part time jobs. My aunt is a manager at a fancy subdivision that has an armed security guard on duty,24 hrs a day. She told me that they pay the security company $25/hr to have a guard on site at all times. She told me that they'd probably pay me atleast $10-15/hr,so I went in for an interview. On the application was a part that said "Salary Desired" so I put $10/hr. The interviewer said that the most he could pay me was $6/hr because I "didn't have enough experience", and yes, I did have my DD Form 214 with me. I laughed at him and told him I could go work at Target for more money,and not risk being shot at. I actually got on at Target,making $7.55/hr. I also tried to get on with the Sheriff's Dept and Corrections. They also both told me I didnt have enough experience and the Sheriff's Dept told me their not "fond" of hiring ex-military. I stuck with school and got a Bachelors Degree in CJ. Can't go wrong with a College degree,right?

I had been out of school for two weeks. My girlfriend saw an ad in the paper. It was a Security Company that does work for the Oil & Gas Industry. They were looking for a Director of Security,two supervisors(day & night) and team leader. Starting pay ranged from $16-34/hr with overtime,full benefits,etc,etc. They stated they were looking for atleast 5 years experience in either military,law enforcement,or security. Let's see,I was in the military for 5 years..check. I did security work for 5 years while in the military..check. I also did LE duties while in the military..check. Seems like I fit the criteria perfectly. Plus I have a degree in Criminal Justice...double check. I was also a team leader for my last 3 years in the military,so at worst,I could get the team leader position.

I filled out an Application and was called in for an interview. i dont mean to brag,but I'm really good at interviewing. Even my professor praised me on my interviewing skills. I went in and the interviewer was really impressed. The job was perfect. 3on-3off,12 hr shifts,paid every week,overtime pay,double time pay on holidays. I was called back for a 2nd interview. I get there and there's already 3 other guys sitting in the lobby waiting. Since there's 4 job openings,I figured that I was in. Until,another guy walks in. Everyone was dressed up,except him. He was wearing blue jeans. As were waiting,one older guy,asks what we used to do. I told him my story. He said he was retired Army,22 years. Another guy,said he was a cop in the Navy for 8 years. The other guy was in the Army for 4 years. The blue jean guy,was only 20,still in college. Oddball.

I was the fourth one to go in. It was me and the blue jean guy left. I went in,and the guy tells me that he wished I had MORE EXPERIENCE. I almost grabbed his tie and choked the **** out of him.

I didn't get hired. I don't know if blue jean guy did or not. I don't really want to know.

I figured Law Enforement/Security work wasn't for me,so I went to a Community College and got an associates in Computer Science,paid for by me since I used up my GI Bill.

I know have a job working at a computer company,making $15/hr. I stay busy so that's always good. Well,today is kinda slow,that's why I'm here. Fridays are sometimes slow.

Moral of the story. Weigh your options before you get out. I hope none of you went through what I went through. I heard that it's getting better now with going to school while you're in. That's good for you guys. Take advantage while you can.

Corrections and the sheriffs were not "fond' of military? Sure you're not slanting words or twisting facts?

The moral of the story is correct, weigh your options and don't expect that four years driving around in a truck with a beret on your head is going to get you into a high-speed/low-drag law enforcement job on the outside. Make sure you will be better off outside the Air Force before you give them the finger. I've seen a lot of guys do that.


As for the rest, if you were in the missile field and you didn't have time to take classes, that was your problem, not the Air Force's.

It's easier to make excuses than to make time for college. Most of the Northern Tier bases had classes specifically designed for the missile field's schedule and generally about subjects that corresponded with the dreaded Industrial Security and the more popular Criminal Justice CCAF degrees.

I managed to take classes beginning as a SrA (I should have started as an A1C) all the way to MSgt. I took them while on flight (WSA, flightline, and missile field), as a back office puke, and as a staff weenie (tm) working two primary jobs (something about there being a war going on). I took them from 1986 all the way to 2003. I took them on base, off base, and even in another state (granted the state line wasn't that far away). And yes, I took them in 1998 while working flight.

I retired in 2004 with a Masters in Computer Science and I make a bit more than $15.00 an hour.

It took a lot of work and a lot of juggling job/family/college. But it was worth it.



As for SCPD's comment, the reasons you got from your interviewers sound squirrelly to me as well. I have a feeling you interview badly, at least for law enforcement. This isn't a dig at you, I'm simply stating an opinion about what may have hapenned. You could have been giving "bad" answers when talking about your AF experience; that can hurt. But they can't use their gut as a response, so they give you a rote reason that won't get them sued.

Still, I'm glad things are working out for you.

quote:

I also tried to get on with the Sheriff's Dept and Corrections. They also both told me I didnt have enough experience and the Sheriff's Dept told me their not "fond" of hiring ex-military.

I find that hard to believe...

I enlisted back in 1994 and refused to sign anything unless I was guaranteed SP/LE in my contract by my recruiter. I feared I would not get SP if I went open general. I got out in 1998 and within 6 months I was hired by a city PD, after a little over 4 years there I applied and was hired by the State. I couldn't imagine doing anything else! I know my military experience helped me immensely both times.

Sounds to me like your heart wasn't really in it to begin with and your interviewers picked up on that.

By the way I have never set foot in a college classroom or have anytype of degree. You can't teach common sense and that is 99.9% of LE work.

Just my 2 cents....

I'm proud of my education and veteran status, but there's no guarantee that these accomplishments will ensure success in civilian life. There's to many variables involved. Somebody who has done well in the military isn't bonded to do better than somebody who was average or worse.

Many traits, characteristics, and sometimes luck comes into play. Often civil service interviewers have little input over who's selected. Scores on written exams don't always indicate the smartest applicant. Sometimes we just get a better test taker, but for appointment we go sequentially down the list from who wrote the highest grade. E-ranks, O-ranks or if the person made sandwiches at Arby's comes next, but who do you think we want? It's the guy or girl who has had life experiences and maturity. To bad we don't always get what we want.

Good luck.

Personality, charisma, networking, not F'ing up, aggressiveness, non-wussiness and self-educating; that's what gets you a job. Military background, education, sure, they're great. Always a bonus in fact. Except for jobs that require a specific degree, i.e. engineering, nursing, pharmacology; sometimes the degree can be professionally worthless.

I recently hired a retired AFSF MSgt with over 20 years of service to be a Lead Security Officer paying $12 per hour. I have a retired city police officer with 25 years experience working for me as a Security Supervisor making $14 per hour. I’ve got a 23 year old former Army MP working for me as my night security officer making $10 per hour. I also have 2 college graduates working for me making under $11 per hour; one speaks a second language fluently.

I was making six figures at one point in my life before I even finished college. Am I special? Do I have a special ninja skill or PhD? No. Did my daddy get me a cool job? No, he retired from the Navy as an O-5 and has been paralyzed for 25 years after being hit by a drunk driver just 2 years after his retirement. Why do my friends think I exagerate about my background, experience, world travels, and cool jobs? Because I was in the right place when I got out of the Army (Northern Virginia/Washington DC), I kept myself clean, was aggressive in everything I pursued, never expected any one thing to get me through “the door” and never accepted “no” as an answer. I also realize that in order to get one job, you have to apply for 1,000. I networked, spent my own time and money attending ASIS meetings, going to luncheons, joined professional military/security associations, sometimes paid my on way through training, got certified in everything from EMT to HAZMAT III and learned how to carry myself professionally.

To be honest, one of my lowest points in my professional (civilian) life is when I was a federal cop for 2 years. It was a tough decision to make, but the life in DC that had me traveling the world was not the life for an expecting husband and wife. I wanted to be home with my kids, so we packed up, took a job making almost 2/3 less than I did and moved close to our families in Florida. Sucked up the cop job and continued networking on my own time and dime. It took me two years before I landed my current gig as a security director for a high-end resort. Not the most glamorous or action packed job, but it’s perfect for someone with two small kids and enjoys serving in the Air National Guard; mostly as a hobby.


From 1996 to 2008, I attended college on a full and part-time basis. I studied Security Management and Administration of Justice. I reached my senior year at a cool school (George Mason University), I had to finish up via an online school that I never heard of until I did my research.

Arrogance, cockiness and over confidence will kill your efforts every time. I interview former military guys a lot who walk in thinking they’re owed a job based on them being an MP, SF or MA. Or worse, a college graduate walking into my office and thinking they’ve got the job in the bag. When I lived in DC for almost 15 years, I was surprised to see people being hired in entry level positions with master’s degrees that spoke multiple languages. Some were veterans, some weren’t. Coming in as a GS-7 barely making enough to pay rent and buy nice clothes to wear to work, but they started somewhere. Others felt like an entry-level job was beneath them. Yeah, those guys are the ones writing posts about how SF didn’t get them the job they felt they deserved.

I think the moral of this whole thread is...

Never give up an your goals.

The common theme with all the responses is that everyone worked hard and never gave up until they achieved what they wanted.
Nothing is given to you in this world, you have to go and get it.
I am not the richest or smartest man in the world, but I am living my dream and in the end that's all that matters.

Leadtrack, its never to late bro, go get what you want and never give up!

There is also no god-given-right to employment. Prepare yourself and present yourself right.

"SF members having a hard time finding jobs"?

I haven't hit any real road blocks yet. Granted, I'm a few months from separating, but I've not had any significant difficulties as of yet. Then again, I've been pounding the pavement (and the internet), working on school, and otherwise busting my ass for the last year. I've been making phone calls, sending emails, submitting resumes and what have you to make sure I have a place to land. There are plenty of excellent responses on this board from those who kept positive, and made things happen for themselves. My wife only did 4 years SF, and has been out for nearly 5 years now. She's had no trouble landing decent employment out of hard work and determination.

This may have come out the wrong way. When I wrote this:

quote:

Originally posted by Stonewall_11:I recently hired a retired AFSF MSgt with over 20 years of service to be a Lead Security Officer paying $12 per hour. I have a retired city police officer with 25 years experience working for me as a Security Supervisor making $14 per hour. I’ve got a 23 year old former Army MP working for me as my night security officer making $10 per hour. I also have 2 college graduates working for me making under $11 per hour; one speaks a second language fluently.

I wasn't saying this in a positive light. I was actually trying to get the point across that it's sad to have a man with 20+ years experience in AFSF be working as a $12 hr security officer. He should be a GS-9/10/11/12 working for the government or making $80K for some government contractor with all the experience he has.

I've got a 32 year old college graduate who speaks a second language. He has been there 2 years and WTF? Why is this mo-fo a $10.30 per hour security officer? There's no excuse other than laziness and a lack of drive/motivation.

There are those who settle and those who don't. You may have to take a ****ty job just to sustain yourself or your family, but don't stop and say "this is good enough". I'm a friggin Security Director and I continue to explore other options, even a lesser title at a larger company with more potential and action.

Oh, and between jobs, in addition to jobs, during college and while serving in the Army National Guard, I worked off and on for Domino's delivering pizza. 1996 and 2000. Mostly beer money, but I did what needed to be done so I could get to the next step.

Stoney,

If you think I was referring to those jobs you mentioned as positive, I was not.

quote:

Originally posted by K9Jake:
Stoney,

If you think I was referring to those jobs you mentioned as positive, I was not.

No, not really. But reading yours made me look back at mine, which caused the earth to stop rotating, so I cleared it up just in case I was confused based on the original poster's original post, plus the fact that, well, I'm bored.

That just happened.

quote:

But reading yours made me look back at mine, which caused the earth to stop rotating, so I cleared it up just in case

Nice. Your sarcastic burn has been noted.

Stone, have you stopped to think that perhaps your employees are happy doing what they do? At least the retired AF guy? Let someone else deal with the management stuff and just handle the job...
Do you know if the retired MSgt tried to get a GS job?

Our interview is the last step in an involved hiring process. It's after a competitive-state examination, polygraph, medical, physical involving a 3 mile run, neighborhood and former employment canvass, credit and insurance claim review, psych eval, etc. Usually the interview is a simple formality. The interviews have uncovered areas for further study, but 99% of our applicants proceed through this without difficulty. This exists even though applicant investigators sometimes suspect a candidate will not be a good match for public service employment.

One applicant was different. During the formal interview he took a cell phone call. He then laughed and joked to the caller about where we were and what we was doing. Eventually two of the three interviewers walked out. With the interview being part of the official application process, he forfeited his right to a fine career. Another dope admitted he had beers on ice in his car for when the interview was completed. This was at about 10 am & the guy had a DWI conviction. I don't know where he is today, maybe still getting drunk in his car.

quote:

Originally posted by Johnny67:
Stone, have you stopped to think that perhaps your employees are happy doing what they do? At least the retired AF guy? Let someone else deal with the management stuff and just handle the job...

Do you know if the retired MSgt tried to get a GS job?

Retired cop: Yes, happy, because he works four 10 hr shifts and he's here for the bennies more than the money.

Retired AFSF guy: Great employee and he's happy because I gave him three 12 hr overnight shifts with 4 days off. He's here for the extra money since he has healthcare bennies. But the moment a job comes around making $1 more he'll take it, whether it be a GS or private industry.

College grad: He's given up on finding a career type job, so he'll be here forever. No chance of management material due to personality.

College students: Happy to get paid $10 per hour with a flexible schedule. I take care of those who are working to better themselves.

Former MP: He's here until he can get hired as a cop somewhere.

Couple other folks, they could take it or leave it.

Stonewall, I've been retired since 1996 and your experience pretty much sums up what I've encountered in the various workplaces I've have been an active participant within.

On a sidenote, I get a lot of help wanted from security firms and governmental agencies to distribute out to the current, former, and retired PJ community. Most are seeking specific verifiable operations participating abilities and experience.


Example of contracted private security need to fill job openings I got and distributed yesterday:

quote:

Gentlemen,

I have attached two rough job descriptions.


XXXXX XXX, Inc. is seeking former Special Forces, Ranger, Combat Control, and SEAL communication specialists to be responsible for planning and conducting ground tactical communications coverage for a specified OCONUS unit. Position is armed, place of duty is Afghanistan with a 4 month rotation schedule. Candidates must possess extensive experience in the following areas: (1) Programming the AN/PRC-117F, AN/PRC-150C, AN/PRC-148 and AN/PRC-152 tactical radios. (2) Automatic Link Establishment (ALE) methods and program. (3) VHF/HF/UHF communications conveyances. (4) Tactical Satellite and DAMA communications. (5) Field Expedient Antennas- theory, construction, and deployment. (6) Tactical communications planning and frequency management. (7) Preventive maintenance. (8) Transmission of data via tactical radios. (9) Instruction and course delivery methods. (10) Lesson plan and courseware development. (11) COMSEC procedures and handling. Additionally, candidates must possess and maintain U.S. Government Secret Clearance. Prefer individuals with recent experience in Central Command (CENTCOM) Theater of Operations (OIF/OEF).

XXXXX XXX, Inc. is seeking former Special Forces, Ranger, Pararescue, and SEAL medical specialists to be responsible for planning and conducting ground tactical medical coverage to a specified OCONUS unit. Position is armed, place of duty is Afghanistan with a 4 month rotation schedule. Must provide Tactical Combat Casualty Care (TCCC) during operations in addition to hands on instruction and scenario based training for unit personnel. Must maintain Emergency Medical Technician - Paramedic (EMT-P) currency, and proficiency in accordance with appropriate State and Federal guidelines. Diagnoses and treats various medical dermatological, and infectious conditions using appropriate medications, intravenous fluid support and physical measures for unit personnel. Manages unit patient's, administration, admission and discharge, care, laboratory and pharmacological requirements and the initiation, maintenance and transfer of records. Orders, stores, catalogs, safeguards and distributes medical supplies, equipment and pharmaceutical. Additionally, candidates must possess and maintain U.S. Government Secret Clearance. Prefer individuals with recent experience in Central Command (CENTCOM) Theater of Operations (OIF/OEF)

Some dudes that have it right...

I mentioned that I used to attend ASIS meetings on my own dime for almost 10 years; not to mention membership fees, etc. Today I was at our chapter's monthly luncheon which had a guest speaker from the Florida Department of Health who talked about H1N1 (Swine Flu). Great speaker with some good info.

Anyway, for some reason, there were 4 military folks in attendance today. A Marine Corps Lt Col, Commander of MCSF out of Kings Bay; one of his captains, an Army Reserve MP E-4 in college and an AFSF CMSgt for the local ANG squadron.

Right on, men! Networking, furthering your education, knowledge and simply doing the right thing. You can't go wrong.

The E-4 MP dude reminded me of myself. Said he did a few years AD in the Army, was in college and looking to get into security, intel, government, etc... He's headed in the right direction.

FYI - While it costs $150 for an annual membership into ASIS (American Society for Industrial Security), students only pay $25. Just something to think about.

Anything Homeland Security... The pay is good and you get a retirement pension. 30 Years... You can buy years of active duty towards pension during your tenure...Sweet!

I have read the posts from others.. I wore a beret for four years and am working my 25th year with private security contractors. It"s there, just do your homework. If I can help., let me know...