I am now hoping those a$$h**es in the VA will finally cop a clue about what has been going on about us Gulf War Vets.

One thing I want to bring to everyone's attention are the three submissions by Doctor Robert Haley published in the January 1997 issue of JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association. In these submissions, he proved that a good part of the different neurological issues of the returning veterans were caused by the interactions of the PB with different exposures in our environment including pesticides, DEET, flea collars used to keep sand fleas and flies off and out of our uniforms, smoke from the oil well fires and including (I think) (heaven forbid) possible to DU.

Now such research is expensive and the VA refused to fund this research. So who was it that stepped up to the plate top fund the research on the sick veterans from the Gulf War?? None other than MISTER H. Ross Perot with a $1,000,000.00 grant to Doctor Haley.

So what unit did Doctor Robert Haley decide on to conduct his research? None other than Reserve Naval Mobile Construction Battalion 24. This is the unit I retired from back in 1995.

His research proved there was such a thing as "Gulf War Syndrome" and there were three subsets of this illness. Each were identified by different exposures and different symptoms. I unfortunately have symptoms of all three. That is why right now the VA is giving me 20 different medications to treat symptoms of a illness the VA says doesn't exist!!!! I have to take everything from a stool softener to morphine and oxycodone in a attempt to control the 24/7 pain I have to live with every day.

There is one bit of social research that I would like the VA to research. That would be how many veterans who are sick from an illness that doesn't exist still have the same family life they had before the war. Just from the people in my unit, I know of many who have lost their homes, wives and family due to suffering from this illness that doesn't exist!! I know of still others who I think from lack of support, and the medical problems they were going thru just called it quits and took their own lives. That is something the VA will never acknowledge or admit to.

Now business wise, the VA is being very smart. Like with the Agent Orange vets, just wait until most of them die off before admitting there MAY be some sort of problem, than they have saved a lot of money!!! The same thing for the First Gulf War vets. Wait until a lot of them die off, then there is a lot of money saved because there are less veterans living having medical problems. It makes perfect business sense. It isn't like they really care for certain groups of veterans in the first place. Just using my own example. All of my medical problems are neurological in order. My VA neurologist on my last appointment spent a total of about four (4) MINUTES with me and promptly set up my next neuro appointment 12 MONTHS later!!!!!!!!!! Personally I consider this a prime example of how much the VA cares for the first Gulf War veterans!! In many cases I know, I think we are more of a embarrassment to the VA, and they would like it better if we Veterans didn't exist! That way they can spend more time with the current veterans from those two wars who get so much media coverage!!!!!

I have been accused of not liking the VA very much. Gee, I wonder why?

First of all, to all those who are Veterans of Desert Shield/Desert Storm, previous Wars and Conflicts, and our current Wars; THANK YOU! AND WELCOME HOME!! I am a Navy Veteran of Desert Shield/Desert Storm. I was stationed aboard the USS Niagara Falls (AFS-3) during that time. I was unaware of all that was going on at the time,but now, things are different.

We always say that "Hind Site Is 20/20", or "If I knew then, what I know now". Well, we didn't know alot about what was happening to the ground Troops. And others there. Now don't get me wrong. I support our Troops 1,000%. I just don't like what has happend to our Troops then and now! How could our leaders not know that? How can they say after all these years, that their is no "Gulf War Syndrome", even though

I wonder if those in charge, knew that covering Tanks and other mechanised equipment as well as Tank Shells with Depleted Uranium would cause Perfectly Healthy men and women to come back with sickness and diseases. Or that Troops exposed to Chemical and Nerve agents without being warned or advised to don their Gas Masks in time, or that Britans Troops and other Coalition Forces would have the same things happening to them.. Did you know, that 1 out of every 4 homeless persons, are Vets? Or that the Military and Veterans Affairs are not providing enough or adequte care to our Brothers and Sisters who have fullfilled their part of the deal they made when they took the Oath, but are not getting enough help to transition from War to Civillian life. Why were we required to take the meds we did? How many times were our Troops fighting, wearing their MCU2P Gas Masks? Or not even be aware that they were being exposed to something and not taking precautions? Or all thise that had to breath in smoke and other things from burning oil refineries. I know that our Soldiers will NEVER get the things they need, and that they will be used and thrown away. So to all of you Active Duty, Inactive Duty, Retired, Veterans and those who have made us the GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD! THANK YOU AND WELCOME HOME!!!

BM3, USN. Veteran.
Firefighter/NREMT-B

There is one other item I forgot to mention on my post as far as exposures go. During the Air War and afterwards, there was little mentioned about all of the artillery dumps that were destroyed. Now even though the DOD and the DA will never admit to it, there were Sarin nerve gas shells mixed in with all of the other rounds.

And what happened when those shells were destroyed? The Sarin Gas escaped into the atmosphere and as I am sure all will remember the normal wind flow was north to south. So hundreds of thousands were exposed to a very light exposure to sarin nerve gas. There was not enough to affect you immediately, but when you are taking PB and have a very tiny exposure to the Sarin Gas, well it just adds to the pesticide exposures that caused trouble as described in the articles written by Doctor Robert Haley in his published articles.

Want to learn more? Just do a yahoo search with "Robert Haley" and "Gulf War." I am sure you will find some very interesting reading.

Did you know that when many of these problems were first presented to the VA just after the war in North Carolina, they treated the troops as if they had mental problems!!!!!!

Don't you just love the VA??? LOL

quote:

Originally posted by SeaBeeSC:
There is one other item I forgot to mention on my post as far as exposures go. During the Air War and afterwards, there was little mentioned about all of the artillery dumps that were destroyed. Now even though the DOD and the DA will never admit to it, there were Sarin nerve gas shells mixed in with all of the other rounds.

And what happened when those shells were destroyed? The Sarin Gas escaped into the atmosphere and as I am sure all will remember the normal wind flow was north to south. So hundreds of thousands were exposed to a very light exposure to sarin nerve gas. There was not enough to affect you immediately, but when you are taking PB and have a very tiny exposure to the Sarin Gas, well it just adds to the pesticide exposures that caused trouble as described in the articles written by Doctor Robert Haley in his published articles.

Want to learn more? Just do a yahoo search with "Robert Haley" and "Gulf War." I am sure you will find some very interesting reading.

Did you know that when many of these problems were first presented to the VA just after the war in North Carolina, they treated the troops as if they had mental problems!!!!!!

Don't you just love the VA??? LOL

if that were the case EVERYONE would be sick... but it is only Brittish troops and US troops that have PGS. the civilian population on both sides of the border as well as saudi, syrian, Egyptian, french german and other forces have no problems.

add to that that the 101st ABN was no where near any of those dumps. and they ghave a high incidence rate of victims.

on top of that , sarin and other nerve agents are not persistent in open areas. it would have disipated LONG before reaching into the atmosphere. there were not enough shadows that would last long in the deserts of Kuwit OR southern Iraq.

i still stick to the PB pills we were forced to take.

I'VE BEEN SICK FOR SIXTEEN YEARS. I WENT FROM BEING ABLE TO RUN TWENTY MILES ON SATURDAY MORNING, THEN COME HOME TO CUT MY GRASS WHILE MY WIFE COOKED BREAKFAST. THEN I WENT TO DESERT STORM. THE LAST TIME I TRIED TO CUT MY SMALL YARD I ALMOST PASSED OUT. I'M AWAYS IN PAIN. I TAKE PAIN PILLS IN THE MORNING TO MAKE IT THROUGH THE DAY WITH A TOLERABLE AMOUNT OF PAIN. I TAKE PILLS TO SLEEP AND FOR PAIN SO THAT I CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT, BUT PAIN WAKES ME UP AT NIGHT. I'M PROUD TO HAVE SERVED IN THE ARMY, AND I WOULD DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN. I JUST WISH MY COUNTRY STOOD BEHIND IT'S VETERANS, THE WAY THAT WE STOOD BEHIND IT WHEN WE WERE CALLED TO DEFEND DEMOCRACY.

MY UNIT WAS ABOUT A HALF MILE FROM ONE OF THE AIRPORTS WHICH HAD BUNKERS FILLED WITH ROUNDS. WE STOOD AROUND ONE DAY WATCHING THE ENGINEERS BLOWING UP THE BUNKERS. I REMEMBER ONE EXPLOSION PRODUCE A MUSHROOM CLOUD. THAT WAS THE DAY AFTER THE WAR ENDED. THEY KNOW WHY EVERYONE'S SICK, BUT THE MORE OF US DIE OFF THE LESS USA HAVE TO PAY OUT.

Hey SGT Kelly, right there with you! My 5 ton was shaking like a jello when those bunkers blew, but, the VA says we weren't close enough to be affected!
V.Harper

Interesting interview on UTUBE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-8PlJVhogs

Elesso. I can understand your response, but what about these questions and thoughts?
Why have we not heard from other countries forces, about them being sick? Why is it the American and Brittish Forces are the only ones sick? How about this answer? (VENT!)Perhaps those other countries take care of their own, or that The Americans are always their on the front lines KICKING ***! I hope that you don't follow blindly and believe what you are told. ESPECIALLY BY THE MEDIA! They are the BIGGEST LIERS OF ALL! They water down and sugar coat everything until people believe what they see and hear. CNN is the Worst! Who owns CNN? Ted Turner! Who is in tight with the Administration in Washington? Ted Turner. Now don't get me wrong. I was PROUD to serve my Country. And I will defend her until I lay dead in my front yard. But how can anybody say that those who left healthy and came back sick were not exposed to Serin gas and Nerve agents, as well as God only knows what else..Now, IN NO WAY DO I MEAN YOU ANY DISRESPECT. I am just stating the fact, that their are things that we don't know, and mabey perhaps shouldn't know, but I can't accept the lie and believe that someone is not sick, because the Tank they were in was coated in Depleted Uranium to "Protect the tank from damage, by being shot at"! Or the tank and other ammunition rounds, that had tips made of Depleted Uranium didn't make our Brothers and Sisters sick. Or the gasses that our Brothers and Sisters were exposed to when they went and saw what happend when Saddam Hussein declared Genoside on the Kurds.He was a COWARD! And I hope he burns in HELL! Or, if when he made it to see all of the Virgins that they are ALL MEN!All I am saying is, don't follow blindly, or you'll end up in the slaughter line, with no way to turn back. When the many who have been left behind, gone before us,or worse forgotten, slip from us, who are we? Will the Children or Grandchildren be having this discussion about all that has happend since 911? I can't remember who said it, or even if I am getting it right, but I read or heard somewhere this: "It is the soldier who prays for Peace, because it is the Soldier who must go and defend it when it is threatened."
I AM THANKFUL EVERYDAY, THAT I CAN GET UP AND ENJOY THE FREEDOMS I HAVE, BECAUSE OF ALL THE GREAT BRAVE MEN AND WOMEN WE HAVE IN THE ARMED FORCES! To those who read this that are Veterans, I say this: THANK YOU. AND WELCOME HOME.

(QUOTE) I can't remember who said it, or even if I am getting it right, but I read or heard somewhere this: "It is the soldier who prays for Peace, because it is the Soldier who must go and defend it when it is threatened."
I AM THANKFUL EVERYDAY, THAT I CAN GET UP AND ENJOY THE FREEDOMS I HAVE, BECAUSE OF ALL THE GREAT BRAVE MEN AND WOMEN WE HAVE IN THE ARMED FORCES! To those who read this that are Veterans, I say this: THANK YOU. AND WELCOME HOME.[/QUOTE]

AMEN My brother/sister

quote:

if that were the case EVERYONE would be sick...

That is what the politicians who do not want to accept responsibility want us to think. The truth is many gas and chemical exposures will affect people differently, unless it is one which creates instant death or disability. Since 1991 I have represent multiple thousands of Persian Gulf war veterans. I see extremely defined comparisons among them. That is why my articles have been of use to most of them.
Truth is easily avoided, simply ignore it. However it will not go away, it is simply avoided. Disaster still happens!

Hey Elesso, according to the letter I received from the Veterans Affairs concerning MY exposure to "chemicals detroyed by detonation", there were almost 100,000 soldiers in the area at risk of exposure. Can you comprehend the number? 100k or 100,000 or one hundred thousand.
MY concern is that 1. the VA admits my unit was in the area when the bunkers where blown 2. I cannot get treatment for anything if I mention the words "Desert Storm" and 3. If they won't see me, how can I get a diagnosis whatever the hell it is that is slowly eating away at my body? Do you have any idea what any of us go through? Do you know what is like to have to keep an extremely detailed journal of your every day, because you might forget something significant in your life? I drive 84 miles to work every day because it is familiar to me and once in the unfamiliar, I forget everything. EVERYTHING! The only reason I keep coming back here is because I have notifications on and get an email everytime someone posts here. It is becoming "Familiar". Don't poke sticks at the caged dog. One day the door will be open and you won't know it!!!

It's sad ,that our goverment knew this and has not done anything to fix this problem. And been a Gulf war Vet my life and health has decline way more than, before I went over there

Just a quick question. What is the ideal situation to test a piece of equipment? In real time conditions. How easy is it for the "Higher Ups" to send a bunch of our Troops into combat, knowing that they will be wearing their equipment? TOO EASY. Whos to say that all of us were not only there to "Take Care Of Buisness", but go ahead and be a lab test subject for equipment? Think about it. When we were being fitted for our MCU2P gas masks, we were most likely NOT exposed to live chemical agents. I HOPE. Yet when we went to Kuwait and other places, there were some who were constantly in PPE and Gas Masks. Some went into Combat, not only under live fire from the enemy, but I think, and this is ONLY my opinion, that the troops were also being exposed to Chemical and Nerve agents. Was there any Decontamination done before the Troops came back to their Base Camp? I don't know. But I have been in and around the Fire Service for 12 years now and I know that if their is a Hazardous Materials Incident, not only did we wear PPE, but we were also Decontaminated so we didn't bring anything out of the "Hot Zone". Well, the Bunkers that were blown up, the munitions and oil well fires our Troops were exposed to were ALL HAZ-MAT Incidents. Where was the Decon and follow up treatment if their is determined to be an exposure? I don't know, but with Hundreds of Thousands of DS/DS Vets sick and dying, all I can say is HMMMMM!!

Thanks,

Mike..

OK.... there is one thing I have to say, and this will be confirmed by anyone not directly connected to the VA, DOD, or any of the armed services.

For all of the treatments we received, the anthrax shots we were given, the PB tablets we were ordered to take, etc......

At no point were there any studies done on the likely results of such treatments and exposures. There were no long term studies done of the after effects of these studies. There were no studies done on the safety of the anthrax shots, and their immediate reaction.

I could mention what happened to the troops I think at Fort Benning who were given the first anthrax shots before deployment. The few soldiers who showed some immediate reaction to it, or the soldier that died because of the shot. You know that the death was hushed immediately, but some word did get out despite the gag orders from the commanding officers.

You may even learn about the amounts of squalene in the shots that are technically supposed to make the shot more effective. The problem lies in the fact that squalene has never been approved for human usage. The powers that be swore that at no time was squalene used in any shots given to allied troops.

Now a good number of our English brothers made it to Saudi by way of ship transportation. Now some way ??accidentally?? some bottles of the anthrax vaccine were thrown overboard and a newspaper reporter found several bottles of the vaccine on the shore that was supposed to be given to the English troops. After all... US and British troops share so many things... why not the same anthrax vaccine. The reporter's newspaper ran a test of these anthrax vaccines and guest what they tested positive for?? Yep... you guessed it... squalene!! You should read that newspaper story.

You should also read up on the results on accidental exposures of squalene. I also read of a small company trying to develop a squalene antibody test. They did finally come up with such a test but were having trouble getting it recognized and approved. They did test a few ill Gulf War soldiers who had had anthrax shots, and all of the soldiers they tested came back with positive results for squalene antibodies. The meaning of a positive test for squalene antibodies? Just that at some point they were given a shot with enough squalene in it to cause the body to produce antibodies for this exposure. Another odd fact is that soldiers who never received any anthrax shots tested negative for squalene antibodies. Also you have to ask yourself how the company that supplies the anthrax shot normally keeps a limited quantity on hand at all times suddenly was tasked with providing approximately half a million doses almost immediately. Also there were the incidences of vaccines that were past their shelf life, just being relabeled. Sometimes multiple times. Also something else that makes interesting reading is the GAO report on the practices of the company. Also we do not want to go into the actual ownership of this company and certain members of Congress. It is just like certain things should not become general knowledge. All of this information is readable available on the internet if you give the search engines the right items to look for.

Much of this information is available on sites dealing with the Gulf War and it's Veterans.

You have to understand that at no time in America's history were so many troops expected to be exposed to the hazards they were expected to face. Now this fact combined there had been no studies performed on the risks that the troops were to be exposed to. An example of this was what would be the effects of taking PB and exposures to different pesticides, flea collars, DEET, smoke from oil well fires, and the 1,001 other exposures that we took for granted.

Speaking for just myself, There was a large chemical plant not far from where our main base was, and that at times we were down wind from the plant and could smell whatever it was that they were working on. I have no idea what exactly the product was, but we were definitely exposed to it's fumes. Was it harmless or when taking PB, could it present some future problem?? No one knows.

I do not think we need to go into the depleted uranium issue because of everything that has already been said about the issue. This is just one more instance where troops exposed to the dust and whatever the long term effects might be is just as unknown as all the other exposures. We would be lucky if something is readily published and approved by the VA in our lifetime.

The true fact of the matter is that we were all guinea pigs from the get-go. Did we have any right to decline any of these exposures? No... The DOD took that away from us. We could not even refuse the vaccine shots for anthrax. The few who did manage not to get the shots were lucky!!!

EXACTLY. Why should the manufacturer of the Drugs test their drugs on animals, when the "Golden Opportunity of a Lifetime" presents itself, by a War. Let's test it on Human subjects. We all believed what we were told at that time, because why would or should we not trust our own Commands. Were they just following orders blindly like us? Did our leaders take the same "vaccines"? Who knows? All I know is, we must keep the younger generations informed, while we can,because we might not be around to tell them later on..
Thanks.. Mike

Here is a link to the National Academy review:
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=6084&page=168

In over 20 years of field service in the oil industry, I have handled and blended materials like orthonitrotoulene, arsenic, xylene, caustics, acids, CaBr2, ZNBR, cresol, formaldehyde, methanol, ethanol, PPA, radioactive iodine, radioactive irridium, shielding of DU, NORM, gases, distilates, and crude oil, TO NAME JUST A FEW. I took the appropriate recommended precautions of the times that may/may-not have been sufficient for total safety. The symptoms I have read about on most of the cases of GWS were MY symptoms too. I have had no takers on this site on info I have previously posted, so I guess I am not considered credible in my claims.
I can back up what I am saying.
If anyone is truly seeking a treatment to improve their condition, know this. It was no doctor that helped me with medications. All they offered basically were pain killers.
Additionally, I have nothing to gain by offering you personnal information that might improve your condition.
My personnal theory for my condition is that all these chemicals may have somehow affected my immune system. There were no detectable amounts of chemicals in any of the many tests I was subjected to. I believe I became susceptable to certain fungus, especially since I am allergic to pennicillin - a fungus. A book called the Fungus Link explains better than I can on what I have come to believe. There is probably a free copy somewhere on the internet. The book is mostly about different cases of illness, a possible cause, and testimony of the improvements from the diet. (This is not Jenny Craig - you buy nothing) I gave my copy away to a friend to help his condition.
Yep, the "treatment" is a four letter word - diet - as per specific foods. (Not hunger.) I never went hungry.
So, if you are more interested in whose at fault, forget about the info. If you are serious about improving your condition, this definitely has major possibilities.

quote:

Originally posted by DaveBarker:
Here is a link to the National Academy review:
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=6084&page=168

Thanks Dave,

I actually sat down and read thru it for an hour before I had to stop.

Now comparing my own VA facility with the one they had envisioned makes that book one of the best works of fiction since I read Tom Clancy's "The Bear and the Dragon!" I have learned the VA operates just the way it wants to. No matter what IOM thinks they are doing.

I even learned I was supposed to have received a follow-up letter from the VA hospital, but I guess it just got lost in the mail.

I have even asked some of the VA specialist doctors if they had read any articles written about the Gulf War Veteran's medical problems, and the answer I got every time was no. I decided to check on all of the previous IOM recommendations and in every one was something about physican/specilist/caregiver learning of the veteran's medical problems. If the other VA medical centers are like mine, than they are only paying lip service to whatever the IOM.

Where does that leave us veterans? At the very best, receiving incomplete health care.

I admit to having an excellent Primary Care Team Doctor. The problem is that almost all of my medical problems are neurological, and my VA neuro doctor refuses to even see me!!! Right now my neurologist has me on a annual 5 minute or less examination with nothing on my neuro-health issues. I want to ask other Gulf War Veteran about their neurologists. What kind of care are you getting from them? Have they read about any Gulf War research of any kind? Do they actually care about the symptoms you have?

I really want to know. I would hate to think there were any other incompetent doctors like I have.


And yes Dave, I will throw stones when I see the need to do so!!!!! The problem is we don't have enough stones to throw!!!!