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Military.com Forums Health and Fitness Health Concerns from Desert Storm to Iraq & Afghanistan Report: At least 121 veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan linked to killings in the U.S.|
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"Has Been 5" Lead Moderator Sound Off Forums  |
From PeoplePC.com news:
Report: At least 121 veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan linked to killings in the U.S. Sunday, January 13, 2008 NEW YORK - At least 121 Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans have committed a killing or been charged in one in the United States after returning from combat, The New York Times reported Sunday. The newspaper said it also logged 349 homicides involving all active-duty military personnel and new veterans in the six years since military action began in Afghanistan, and later Iraq. That represents an 89-percent increase over the previous six-year period, the newspaper said. About three-quarters of those homicides involved Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans, the newspaper said. The report did not illuminate the exact relationship between those cases and the 121 killings also mentioned in the report. The newspaper said its research involved searching local news reports, examining police, court and military records and interviewing defendants, their lawyers and families, victims' families and military and law enforcement officials. Defense Department representatives did not immediately respond to a telephone message early Sunday. The Times said the military agency declined to comment, saying it could not reproduce the paper's research. A military spokesman, Lt. Col. Les Melnyk, questioned the report's premise and research methods, the newspaper said. He said it aggregated crimes ranging from involuntary manslaughter to murder, and he suggested the apparent increase in homicides involving military personnel and veterans in the wartime period might reflect only "an increase in awareness of military service by reporters since 9/11." Neither the Pentagon nor the federal Justice Department track such killings, generally prosecuted in state civilian courts, according to the Times. The 121 killings ranged from shootings and stabbings to bathtub drownings and fatal car crashes resulting from drunken driving, the newspaper said. All but one of those implicated was male. About a third of the victims were girlfriends or relatives, including a 2-year-old girl slain by her 20-year-old father while he was recovering from wounds sustained in Iraq. A quarter of the victims were military personnel. One was stabbed and set afire by fellow soldiers a day after they all returned from Iraq. I will cast no stones! Dave Barker |
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"Has Been 5" Lead Moderator Sound Off Forums |
The promise of psychological testing of those in combat areas is apparently important. It must be carried out completely. Testing of the support units is as equally important. With proper testing of troops many answers will be found. With accurate answers we can then address the source of the problem. Then attempt to correct it.
I will cast no stones! Dave Barker |
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Member |
I can attest to that, when I returned from Vietnam it scared me that I seemed to find killing someone who crossed my path or even aggravated me, such a natural and obvious choice. I am still of that persuasion, but have been able to insert some reason into such options. Somehow when you see firsthand how quick and easy it is, it becomes more of an option I guess. Combine the anger issues of PTSD with that, and you seem to have a bad situation.
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Basic Training |
As has been said on this forum, PTSD goes hand-in-hand with Major Depressive Disorder (MDD). I know; its a Bi*ch... that my VA meds are not helping me with. MDD is terrible... you are never happy, 24-7, then there is the anxiety of PTSD.... and it becomes overwhelming.
Anyway, for me, fighting suicidal thoughts is more of a problem than for me harming others. Just my thoughts. |
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Member |
Be sure and tell the VA docs about that. I had that problem big time, three little pills took ALL that stuff away.
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Highly Experienced Member Ex-Moderator, Fired For Cause |
As to the original post, do the math. That puts the "criminal" rate for veterans of OIF/OEF at 0.3% of the veteran population - FAR LESS than our civilian counterparts.
More worrisome is the move here to tar and feather all veterans with the psychosis brush - hey, BTDT. Let's not have VN all over again, with all vets being drunken, drugged-up baby-killing wife-beaters just one step away from blowing up the nearest mall ... Personally, a lone teenage boy with a weapon is way scarier than a vet with one. |
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Member |
I wonder how long before someone starts making a comparison between these vets and Vietnam vets. There were quite a few that went "postal" I guess is an all round term to use that sorta became norm when describing VN vets.
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"Flying in the Golden Triangle." "Has Been 3" |
Interview with a retired General (USA), stated surprise the number isn't much higher, contributes it to a change in tactics in handling combat troops returning from the front lines, since Vietnam, but believes there is probably many more.
Domestic violence and homicide, a very rare occurrence on military installations, have increased on infantry Posts. "VIA UNA COR UNUM" |
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"Has Been 5" Lead Moderator Sound Off Forums |
It was a news article that I could have ignored and not posted. At this point in my opinion there has been only statement of facts of a problem being addressed. I do agree with Cider on the statement "Personally, a lone teenage boy with a weapon is way scarier than a vet with one." However the concern of media reporting is an issue, we all need to be aware of and something we know can get out of control. Media helped defame many veterans in my generation. I will cast no stones! Dave Barker |
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Basic Training |
There is no reason a story like this should be reported. The media loves to make statments like this. It is only a anti war story to make our veterans look like murders. Yes veterans kill but so does non veterans.
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"Has Been 5" Lead Moderator Sound Off Forums |
Thanks Hutchdtp!
I will cast no stones! Dave Barker |
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Basic Training |
Yep, I agree, not more than civilian non-vet community; probably less... but, news media is important... not to be denied. Schwanke - what meds are you talking about when you said: "Be sure and tell the VA docs about that. I had that problem big time, three little pills took ALL that stuff away." Pls, I need to know. My VA Shrink has tried about 3 or 4 and nothing seems to help me. Thanks. |
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"Cannon Cockers, The Grunts 911 call" "Has Been 1"  |
The NYT now known as the GRAY B*TCH sinks to a new low!
New York Times 'Killer Vet' Story Exposed as Erroneous by Pro-Troop Group EXCLUSIVE: New York Times 'Killer Vet' Story Exposed as Erroneous by Pro-Troop Group SACRAMENTO- Move America Forward (website: www.MoveAmericaForward.org), the nation's largest grassroots pro-troop organization, today announced that after vetting the numbers cited by The New York Times in their Sunday, January 13, 2008 story, "Across America, Deadly Echoes of Foreign Battles," it became clear that the Times had engaged in demonstrably erroneous and false reporting. It took seven New York Times researchers to find 121 cases in which veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan committed a killing in the United States, or were charged with one, upon returning home to this country. The Times made the false conclusion that: "Taken together, they paint the patchwork of a quiet phenomenon, tracing a cross-country trail of death and heartbreak." The Times documentation of 121 potential killings out of more than 1.5 million veterans of Operation Iraqi Freedom (Iraq) and Operation Enduring Freedom (Afghanistan), divided by 6 years of conflict results in a murder rate of just 1.34 incidents per 100,000 veterans per year. That murder rate is far lower than the murder rate for the general population, demonstrating that the experiences of military service - including having served in Iraq and Afghanistan - actually made it less likely for returning veterans to commit murder once they returned home, than the general population. Given a census-estimated population of the United States of 300,000,000 persons in this country as of October 2006, and FBI-compiled statistics of 17,399 homicide offenders for 2006, the murder rate of the general population was 5.80 offenders per 100,000 on average - and a rate of approximately 7.67 per 100,000 for men. Since all but one of the veterans cited by the Times who committed a killing in the U.S. was male, the comparable rate is approximately 7.67 incidents of murder per 100,000 people among the general male population, compared to just 1.34 incidents per 100,000 returning Iraq and Afghanistan veterans (of both genders). "It's obvious that the New York Times has an agenda of undermining the missions of our troops in the War on Terror, so much so that they are willing to resort to demonstrably false statistics to support their anti-troop bias," said Melanie Morgan, Chairman of Move America Forward. "The slander of our troops and veterans by the New York Times is unfortunately all too familiar. We heard this kind of nonsense about our returning veterans from Vietnam. It's the same insult, different war. "Perhaps the shameful staff of The New York Times has run out of war-time secrets to publish for America's enemies to read, because now they've resorted to an all-out smear campaign of America's finest men and women, who have served this country bravely and with distinction," Morgan said. In place of hard data to support their premise, The New York Times was instead forced to devote almost the entire portion of 6,321 word hit-piece to anecdotes of wrongdoing by individual veterans. The New York Times even went so far as to trace back the phenomenon of murderous veterans to Greek mythology to back up their assertions of their report. "The real mythology is the reporting by The New York Times," Move America Forward's Melanie Morgan concluded |
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Member |
RVN1968 check you personal messages for my reply.
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"Has Been 5" Lead Moderator Sound Off Forums |
Thanks Steve!  I will cast no stones! Dave Barker |
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"Cannon Cockers, The Grunts 911 call" "Has Been 1" |
Your welcome!
A new low for the GRAY B*TCH.  Shame on the NYT. |
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"Cannon Cockers, The Grunts 911 call" "Has Been 1" |
http://www.nypost.com/seven/01152008/postopinion/opedco..._soldiers_265875.htm
Ralph Peters comments on the GRAY B*TCH. Well done Lt. Col. Peters!  |
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Member |
If these numbers are accurate (and I have no reason to disbelieve them), It looks like the NYT reporter was trying to "sell" his story based on the "all combat vets suffer PTSD" kind of myth. Without comparing the Vets statistics with the non-Vets statistics, it's easy to draw the wrong conclussion. Especially by a public that likes to digest it's news in sound-bites. |
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"Has Been 5" Lead Moderator Sound Off Forums |
Right on the button, thanks Doc I will cast no stones! Dave Barker |
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"Cannon Cockers, The Grunts 911 call" "Has Been 1" |
Let BUMP this. SHAME ON THE NY TIMES! |
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