I'm an Army MP with 10 years in. Recently I was involved in an incident where a Major that worked for a 3 Star General assaulted a Department of the Army Civilian Police Officer right in front of me. I was not working the road but decided to aid the officer in distress. The subject fled the scene and was later located inside the General's HQs bunkered down and not willing to come out. The Provost Marshal wanted the unit to handle this criminal act and I stepped in and pushed for the Major to be detained the same day. I had seen too many incidents get put under the carpet and nothing done due to rank or position. I drew the line since it was a fellow cop that had been the victim here. After butting heads with an O-5 over this incident, I became a marked MP Captain. I was suspended from duty, reassigned, security clearance pulled and to top it off, I've been recommended for a General Court Martial on some bogus charge (obstruction of justice). Has anyone experienced chain of command retaliation after doing the right thing or am I alone out there?

Maybe things have changed since I left the Army but I always viewed the military form of "justice" to be unique and much different than what we do in the civilian world where I am now. It was the responsibility of a unit to take care of a problem once we had pacified things and removed potential danger to others. And as a junior officer, if a senior officer told me to do something, I was going to do it as long as it was not an illegal order. I might request he listen to my argument for why we should act differently but at the end of the day I would salute, say Yes Sir and drive on as he had directed. I was never in a situation that really made me question decisions made by superiors so much that I would go tto the extremes you apparently did. Had I been in such a quandry, I likely would just choose to resign if I could not do as I was told.

Sounds like a call to the IG's office is warranted.

Or, the MP Regimental Commander.

The civilian cop was absolutely pushing for the Major to get charged for this crime but was fighting an uphill battle since he was not a commissioned officer like me. Rather, he was a prior service Marine MP.

If I left the Department of the Army civilian cop to fend for himself he would have gone down instantly. Instead, I used my best judgement at the time and stood up for a fellow brother cop. I'll do that everyday regardless. "Never leave a fallen comarade behind"

I would think after 10 years you would know you are a soldier first and a MP second. It is one thing to intervene at the moment so as to prevent anyone from being hurt but once the danger is past, you ought to respect the UCMJ and what it permits.

No ZebraMike...after 10 years I've seen how the politics of high rank work and what the right thing is versus undue command influence. I'm a Soldier and I'm a Cop. One in the same and not one or the other or one before the other.

You're not a cop and quite honestly most MP's forget that. This becomes obvious in the mistakes you made.

So from your own posts:

The Soldier's COC was going to handle the situation and the PM was in agreement. You should've stopped there.

Butting heads with a LTC? Sounds like insubordination.

Detention? Really the whole few hours in a cell would've made a difference as there was really nothing there to mandate pre-trial confinement.

Ok JB...I'm an MP (Military Police) but I'm not a cop. My brothers in the Marine Corps Military Police and my brothers in the Air Force Security Police Forces are not cops either. We have patrol cars with blue lights, hand cuffs, pistols, K-9 units, investigators, SRT units, write citations, make detentions and respond to 911 calls on post but "we're not cops".

quote:

Originally posted by 8413043:
Ok JB...I'm an MP (Military Police) but I'm not a cop. My brothers in the Marine Corps Military Police and my brothers in the Air Force Security Police Forces are not cops either. We have patrol cars with blue lights, hand cuffs, pistols, K-9 units, investigators, SRT units, write citations, make detentions and respond to 911 calls on post but "we're not cops".

Nope. You're someone who has law enforcement authority but are not a cop.

MP's have only a fraction of the training a cop recieves in LE.

I am not sure whether you are or are not a "cop" has much bearing here. Even "cops" have to work within the boundaries of their particular jursidiction and system; and even "cops" have to accept that judges and prosecutors may have a different view about how an incident should be handled than do they.

quote:

Originally posted by _JB:
MP's have only a fraction of the training a cop recieves in LE.

I gotta agree with that statement. I was an MP Platoon Sergeant. I cannot believe how ignorant of REAL law enforcement until I left the service and became a Cop.
The LE training I received in MP School, was a joke. Just enough to get someone hurt, killed or sued.
I find this whole post pretty funny. Now someone knows what it's like to be an Enlisted person with an incompetent CO.
I had a Private take a swing at me, in broad daylight in front of witnesses. I got busted because I "lost control of the situation." Read that as, "we're going to bust you because we can."

quote:

Nope. You're someone who has law enforcement authority but are not a cop.

MP's have only a fraction of the training a cop recieves in LE

I aggree with your second statement. We have to perform the same mission as a regular civilian Police Department but with less training and a lot less support from management. A real recipie for success!

quote:

Nope. You're someone who has law enforcement authority but are not a cop.

MP's have only a fraction of the training a cop recieves in LE.

I'm a cop. I was also an Army MP. You are not a cop. Your profile doesn't state you were ever an MP. Seems to me you wouldn't know what the hell you are talking about on either subject.

For the record; Military Policemen are federal police officers given authority to provide security and law enforcement for the military community and it's property.

'Cop'--slang word for Police Officer.
'MP'--Federal Police Officer.
MP=Cop

Case closed.

quote:

Originally posted by 8413043:
I'm an Army MP with 10 years in. Recently I was involved in an incident where a Major that worked for a 3 Star General assaulted a Department of the Army Civilian Police Officer right in front of me. I was not working the road but decided to aid the officer in distress. The subject fled the scene and was later located inside the General's HQs bunkered down and not willing to come out. The Provost Marshal wanted the unit to handle this criminal act and I stepped in and pushed for the Major to be detained the same day. I had seen too many incidents get put under the carpet and nothing done due to rank or position. I drew the line since it was a fellow cop that had been the victim here. After butting heads with an O-5 over this incident, I became a marked MP Captain. I was suspended from duty, reassigned, security clearance pulled and to top it off, I've been recommended for a General Court Martial on some bogus charge (obstruction of justice). Has anyone experienced chain of command retaliation after doing the right thing or am I alone out there?

I dunno, in my 21 years it was always my experience that 10 year Captains were already "marked". Unless you are prior service enlisted, you should have been a Major by now lookin' for LTC. More to the story, maybe?

Just sayin' (shrug)

quote:

Originally posted by armycop91:

quote:

Nope. You're someone who has law enforcement authority but are not a cop.

MP's have only a fraction of the training a cop recieves in LE.

I'm a cop. I was also an Army MP. You are not a cop. Your profile doesn't state you were ever an MP. Seems to me you wouldn't know what the hell you are talking about on either subject.

For the record; Military Policemen are federal police officers given authority to provide security and law enforcement for the military community and it's property.

'Cop'--slang word for Police Officer.
'MP'--Federal Police Officer.
MP=Cop

Case closed.

MP's are not Federal Police Officers. If you haven't figured the difference out than you're a poor cop/MP.

quote:

MP's are not Federal Police Officers. If you haven't figured the difference out than you're a poor cop/MP.

This coming from a government employee? Where is YOUR experience on the matter, young man? Mabye an MP wrote you a ticket and your panties have been in a wad ever since?

Don't take stabs at my professional abilities just because you don't agree with me, either. Trust me, you don't want to go there. Stick to the subject.

My experience is I'm a cop and an MP.

MP's are not sworn LE. They don't have near the same privilages nor do they even have the same amount of training.

Very, very few MP's I've met have a good working knowledge of LE and those that do have worked several years in a L&O Det and not a line unit.

MP officers are even worse.

quote:

Originally posted by _JB:
My experience is I'm a cop and an MP.

MP's are not sworn LE. They don't have near the same privilages nor do they even have the same amount of training.

Very, very few MP's I've met have a good working knowledge of LE and those that do have worked several years in a L&O Det and not a line unit.

MP officers are even worse.

Most of the MPs I worked with during my enlistment were better trained and more professional than some of the idiots i'm forced to work with now.

And in my opinion, the 17 weeks of training i recieved in Fort McClellan back in '91 was a HELL of a lot better than the joke training Ohio calls OPOTA.

MPs not sworn? Think back to the oath you took at your enlistment. It covers your precious 'sworn law enforcement' arguement, and then some. The authority MPs have is only limited by the posse comitatus act. And that can be lifted during marshal law.

Sorry you think so lowly of your former MOS and MP brothers. They must have failed measuring up to your lofty standards.

Just out of curiousity, what do you do and for whom?

It's a shame that someone, an MP at that would dog his comrades. I've been in for about 9 years and I've seen and done a lot. I've had more L&O schools and training than your average civilian police officer. Most cops with 20 years experience don't get as much training as I have had. A lot of MP's are very successful at what they do, and can carry that over into a promising career on the civilian side. Others are not and have had bitter experiences as an MP or just didn't take their job seriously enough to actually had made a difference. Yes OSUT training may not be "up to par" with the civilian training. But the schools you can receive afterwards are endless, and may I add are constantly attended by "Federal" law enforcement officers. I know this because I've attended over a dozen of these schools with them.
Our fellow member "JB" was right about one thing, MP's are not Federal police officers. We are US Army Soldiers with L&O duties. Just like any other MOS in the Army. You are a soldier first, and then comes your skill identifier. MP's are granted these privilages and work on "Federal Installations" alongside other DOD police. With that said Military Police Officers are granted "Federal" status if you are, you ready for this.......CID. Then you are reclassed to a 31D. But you are still a soldier with L&O capabilities and you have Federal authority, on or off post. I hope I broke it down enough for our little friend so he can understand that yes we are not federal officers, and yes we are federal officers. The Army and the MP Corps are what you make of it. And evedently you have not made much of it, otherwise you would not be bad mouthing your fellow comrades, Or the MP Captain who you disrespected. Incidents like that are pushed under the carpet everyday. And I can say that, I as an Invetigator, and a fellow MP I see this stuff almost everyday. And I will stand behind a fellow MP wether he be an officer or enlisted as long as they believe what they did was the right thing and that it is found that they were not at fault for any wrong doing.
I would stand behind this Capt. and ensure that the right thing was done. Just because you are a Major, LTC, 1SG, SM, CSM, etc. does not mean you are above the law nor does it mean you can say and do what ever you want just because your boss is a damn 3 star General. Yes the political side of the Army sucks, but I have not ever backed down from a higher enlisted NCO or officer and made to do the wrong thing, especially if I knew I could get repremanded.
My hats off to this Capt for doing what he did and next time someone runs there trap about MP"s not being "real cops" or not "having the proper training" you might want to get your facts straight first, or better yet get to some schools and better your career instead of complaining about it. Educate yourselves before you try to educate others.

"OF THE TROOPS, FOR THE TROOPS"